Raider.io is Ruining This Game

General Discussion
In the past addons complimented the game, but here comes along Raider.io, it just ruins the game. If you're on a populated server good luck getting your run logged! If it doesn't fall into the minimum you don't get points, so although you have completed a run on time with a chest it may not recorded, so how are you supposed to progress?

Blizzard really needs to disable this addon it spreads toxicity and an elitist attitude. I've cleared +10 runs on time with people that have practically no IO score, but they are 8/8 Heroic Uldir and progressing Mythic Uldir. Does that make them a bad tank/healer/dps?
1) Raider.io's inability to log runs lies entirely with Blizzard. They're only putting out so much information on the leaderboards. If they were to increase that, raider.io would log the info. It's Blizzard's lack of published data that leads to runs not being logged.

2) Raider.io tracks your experience as published by Blizzard on M+. That's pretty much it. There's nothing toxic about being able to see a players progress in one easy to consume format. Or do you think the fact that Blizzard shows your raid progress on your armory page, or your achievements are also toxic?

3) Raid experience doesn't necessarily mean you will automatically do well at M+. However, doing a lot of M+ does tend to be an indicator of success. M+ is a different beast. Lots of players are just good and good at both. But if you have never set foot in an M+, don't understand the affixes, don't understand the strats to run the dungeon efficiently enough to make the timer, then you alone can make a run fail. People don't take someone into high level keys they care to finish on time when they don't have relevant experience for the same reason people don't take someone who's never done anything but LFR for raiding into a Heroic or Mythic raid. You usually have to show you have aptitude at lower but relevant content before people will risk you causing their whole group to fail.

4) If you don't want to use raider.io, then don't. Clearly with the complaints out there plenty of people don't and won't use raider.io. You are perfectly free to start your own group and not look at people's scores, and perfectly free to join up with the other people who don't use it.

5) You aren't entitled to group with anyone just because you want to. You don't have the right to force them to take you. And there is no reason why Blizzard should make it easy for you to trick people into taking you, instead of showing your experience and letting everyone make informed decisions.

6) If you don't use raider.io, there's nothing wrong with that. But it does mean you are approaching the game differently and have different expectations and execution towards your goals than the people who do. You don't have to use it, no one is forcing you to. But it might mean you just are not well suited to grouping with the people who do because they just have a different way they want to play than you do. And there is nothing wrong with that either. They aren't forcing their way on you, they are simply doing what they want to do with their own time and groups. You shouldn't be able to force your way on them either.
Another one of these threads.
Great explanation, Lorsaire.

I know people don't like this answer, because it requires effort on their part, but either make your own group or work to improve your standing in the system that a majority of players are using. Even if Raider.IO was gone tomorrow, someone would make another method to help weed out high-risk players.
Really glad I'm running with a fixed group of friends to avoid all this nonsense.
Raider.IO is fine. You need to accept the fact that there will never be a 'perfect' way of measuring performance - so this is what we have.

Is it perfect, no. Does it help players looking to push keys, yes.

You also need to accept the fact that some players are fundamentally better than others. Being a highly skilled player looking to complete your key on time and push into harder difficulties you're not going to want to run with an inexperienced casual player that doesn't feel the same way.

p.s: post on your main
10/19/2018 10:28 AMPosted by Lagspike
Another one of these threads.


They will keep coming.
raider.io is a meme now
So better have your hard hats ready :)
Blizzard missed a huge opportunity with M+. They could have had seasonal rankings and a built in M+ rating much like PvP. I know a lot of people like M+ but there is really no reason to do it once you’re 370+ item level besides your +10 for the week. Raider.io is actually one of the few systems in the game where you can get a sense of character progression that is not horribly ridden with RNG.
It only gives information and it's up to individual players on how to act on that information. A player could have the add-on installed and let in every player that has a zero score and have a perfectly agreeable run.
10/19/2018 10:26 AMPosted by Lorsaire
1) Raider.io's inability to log runs lies entirely with Blizzard. They're only putting out so much information on the leaderboards. If they were to increase that, raider.io would log the info. It's Blizzard's lack of published data that leads to runs not being logged.

2) Raider.io tracks your experience as published by Blizzard on M+. That's pretty much it. There's nothing toxic about being able to see a players progress in one easy to consume format. Or do you think the fact that Blizzard shows your raid progress on your armory page, or your achievements are also toxic?

3) Raid experience doesn't necessarily mean you will automatically do well at M+. However, doing a lot of M+ does tend to be an indicator of success. M+ is a different beast. Lots of players are just good and good at both. But if you have never set foot in an M+, don't understand the affixes, don't understand the strats to run the dungeon efficiently enough to make the timer, then you alone can make a run fail. People don't take someone into high level keys they care to finish on time when they don't have relevant experience for the same reason people don't take someone who's never done anything but LFR for raiding into a Heroic or Mythic raid. You usually have to show you have aptitude at lower but relevant content before people will risk you causing their whole group to fail.

4) If you don't want to use raider.io, then don't. Clearly with the complaints out there plenty of people don't and won't use raider.io. You are perfectly free to start your own group and not look at people's scores, and perfectly free to join up with the other people who don't use it.

5) You aren't entitled to group with anyone just because you want to. You don't have the right to force them to take you. And there is no reason why Blizzard should make it easy for you to trick people into taking you, instead of showing your experience and letting everyone make informed decisions.

6) If you don't use raider.io, there's nothing wrong with that. But it does mean you are approaching the game differently and have different expectations and execution towards your goals than the people who do. You don't have to use it, no one is forcing you to. But it might mean you just are not well suited to grouping with the people who do because they just have a different way they want to play than you do. And there is nothing wrong with that either. They aren't forcing their way on you, they are simply doing what they want to do with their own time and groups. You shouldn't be able to force your way on them either.


Ok yet regardless of all you said for raider.io, the fact is plenty of groups are using it as a measuring tool to see if you should be invited into the mythic group. It is a limitation for a lot of players with not the same amount of time to run mythics. Players use it all the time to grant/dent players access. Not having or having “raider.io” means nothing to the type of player you are all it comes down to how you really play. You can have a low raider.io and be bad you can have a higher raider.io and be good and also vice versa. So someone having/ not having an addon, at the very least, it shouldn’t be a requirement. Especially for the low level mythics you see a lot of people requiring it for. Problem is raider.io gets abused and used to cherry pick players. If you really want such a perfect run, do it with your guild in your discrod. Yes it’s part of the game to play with players and find out if they are good/bad. To already have a number that tries to do that, takes away some fun for the game.
My IO sucks, but I think it’s a great tool to see who has the experience for which you’re looking. I think, too, it should be clear who the audience of M+ is supposed to be. If you haven’t +d a nine, you probably aren’t prepared for a 10 (obviously any group can. Grind out the dungeon past timers, I meant ‘successfully’).

Mythic plus is 75% experience, 25% comp. You need that experience to be successful.

Don’t bemoan the tool that highlights your inexperience, embrace it. Work on it. Jump in a few +2s, then move up to 3s, etc until you fail.

Tl;Dr: don’t blame the ruler for being short, eat your damn vegetables.
There always has been and always will be addons to categorize people. If Raider IO were to be blacklisted, another would just take its place.
10/19/2018 10:29 AMPosted by Bignuggetz
Really glad I'm running with a fixed group of friends to avoid all this nonsense.

This
10/19/2018 10:01 AMPosted by Fryup
so how are you supposed to progress?


Blizzard's intent is not for you to progress via an addon named raider.io lol.

Infact they have actually said its not meant for pugging In a Q/A that why they never bothered to take action for leavers when the question was asked. Since adding a punishment would just make it worse as its a pre-made and not an auto- matched group like lfd.

You are supposed to play it with ppl you know :)
10/19/2018 10:01 AMPosted by Fryup
If you're on a populated server good luck getting your run logged! If it doesn't fall into the minimum you don't get points


Partly true but not really. I'm on Mal'Ganis, one of the biggest server and for the first few days, keys like a +4 could still be counted as it's not until the weekends when the minimum will be shot up to +10.

10/19/2018 10:01 AMPosted by Fryup
they are 8/8 Heroic Uldir and progressing Mythic Uldir. Does that make them a bad tank/healer/dps?


Raiding and doing keys are two different things. Someone is 7/8M raider, is he going to be good on M Ghuun? No, not yet at least. They will die many times to dump avoidable things. They need to see and learn the fights. Same goes for keys, every dungeon is different mechanics, so unless they do it a bunch of times, they'll likely be bad at it, just like me. 4k+ score in Legion, 3/8M but I'm awful at keys this expansion because I rarely do them.
I understand and kind of agree what Raider.io is design to do

I disagree in how it’s being abuse.

I avoid pugging raider.io groups. Since I haven’t worked my way to 10+ mythics but I find it funny it’s use for lower keys.

Those who use it are only hurting themselves as they are picking from a smaller pool of pugs anyway
10/19/2018 10:35 AMPosted by Vainesta
10/19/2018 10:26 AMPosted by Lorsaire
1) Raider.io's inability to log runs lies entirely with Blizzard. They're only putting out so much information on the leaderboards. If they were to increase that, raider.io would log the info. It's Blizzard's lack of published data that leads to runs not being logged.

2) Raider.io tracks your experience as published by Blizzard on M+. That's pretty much it. There's nothing toxic about being able to see a players progress in one easy to consume format. Or do you think the fact that Blizzard shows your raid progress on your armory page, or your achievements are also toxic?

3) Raid experience doesn't necessarily mean you will automatically do well at M+. However, doing a lot of M+ does tend to be an indicator of success. M+ is a different beast. Lots of players are just good and good at both. But if you have never set foot in an M+, don't understand the affixes, don't understand the strats to run the dungeon efficiently enough to make the timer, then you alone can make a run fail. People don't take someone into high level keys they care to finish on time when they don't have relevant experience for the same reason people don't take someone who's never done anything but LFR for raiding into a Heroic or Mythic raid. You usually have to show you have aptitude at lower but relevant content before people will risk you causing their whole group to fail.

4) If you don't want to use raider.io, then don't. Clearly with the complaints out there plenty of people don't and won't use raider.io. You are perfectly free to start your own group and not look at people's scores, and perfectly free to join up with the other people who don't use it.

5) You aren't entitled to group with anyone just because you want to. You don't have the right to force them to take you. And there is no reason why Blizzard should make it easy for you to trick people into taking you, instead of showing your experience and letting everyone make informed decisions.

6) If you don't use raider.io, there's nothing wrong with that. But it does mean you are approaching the game differently and have different expectations and execution towards your goals than the people who do. You don't have to use it, no one is forcing you to. But it might mean you just are not well suited to grouping with the people who do because they just have a different way they want to play than you do. And there is nothing wrong with that either. They aren't forcing their way on you, they are simply doing what they want to do with their own time and groups. You shouldn't be able to force your way on them either.


Ok yet regardless of all you said for raider.io, the fact is plenty of groups are using it as a measuring tool to see if you should be invited into the mythic group. It is a limitation for a lot of players with not the same amount of time to run mythics. Players use it all the time to grant/dent players access. Not having or having “raider.io” means nothing to the type of player you are all it comes down to how you really play. You can have a low raider.io and be bad you can have a higher raider.io and be good and also vice versa. So someone having/ not having an addon, at the very least, it shouldn’t be a requirement. Especially for the low level mythics you see a lot of people requiring it for. Problem is raider.io gets abused and used to cherry pick players. If you really want such a perfect run, do it with your guild in your discrod. Yes it’s part of the game to play with players and find out if they are good/bad. To already have a number that tries to do that, takes away some fun for the game.

You ignored everything this person said, and just re-stated your original point.

Do you know what a conversation is?
Generally speaking, If you're not good enough for your run to be logged you're not good enough for higher M+.

Even on a populated realm I don't have any issues getting runs logged.
10/19/2018 10:36 AMPosted by Mistblossom
There always has been and always will be addons to categorize people. If Raider IO were to be blacklisted, another would just take its place.


there must ALWAYS be a Lich King.
10/19/2018 10:40 AMPosted by Rubmykeg
Generally speaking, If you're not good enough for your run to be logged you're not good enough for higher M+.


Man ppl from low server populations must be pros then.

Go go low pop realms you guys are hardcore :)

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