Baine is pragmatic

Story Forum
Just watched the funeral thingy and Nathanos himself says that victory is within the Alliances grasp. If Nathanos of all people is saying it I am inclined to believe it is the truth cause it takes a lot for this guy to admit failure. So Baines call for "negotiations" is not cowardice at all, its pragmatism given the situation. Even if the negotiations only delay hostilities it buys the Horde time that they seem to desperately need.
Do nothing for 10 years but whine and complain that everyone is mean.

"pragmatic"
It is not a bad thing to bring up, imo.

It is easy to mock as Players. But the subject of diplomacy has to be at least brought up and shot down. To never mention it would be removing a tool from the work bench.

An arrow from the quiver.

Diplomacy can be used in various ways. I see nothing wrong with simply bringing it up in this context. For the Warchiefs consideration - even if Baine knows the answer.

Diplomacy is a bad idea, and out of the question - but there's nothing wrong with brainstorming every idea as a leadership group.

It would be worse for him to continue any subterfuge and communicate with the Alliance on his own.
Yes, that one line from Baine was not completely stupid.

It's nearly every other aspect of his behavior for years that's the problem.

Plus, we really shouldn't let him lead negotiations. He'd probably start by offering all of Kalimdor to the Alliance and then let himself get talked into a worse deal from there.
Cowardice.

Pragmatism.

Two perspectives on the same coin.

Unfortunately that coin is a yellow bellied chicken !@#$.
10/26/2018 08:40 AMPosted by Feldaran
Cowardice.

Pragmatism.

Two perspectives on the same coin.

Unfortunately that coin is a yellow bellied chicken !@#$.
When Genn barely sent any forces to support the Alliance in WC2 and then built a wall he was being "pragmatic".

When Baine mailed parts of his secondary sexual characteristics to teen boys he was being "creepy".
I still like Baine only because of the muscles and the deep alluring voice. It just sucks said voice is always complaining.
I am talking about the specific situation and not Baines history, which is for another argument. Many people immediately side with Sylvanas and think Baines suggestion here is outrageous when it is anything but given the information that the Horde is very close to losing the war.
You know, if we ever saw Baine do ONE thing for the Horde, maybe we wouldn't dislike him so much. But all he ever does is sit on the sidelines and complain. He just talks.

The real question: is it Blizzard's goal to have Horde players despise every single one of their faction leaders?

Lessee:

Thrall turned into a sulking teenager.

Vol'Jin turned into an unwitting dupe.

Sylvanas turned into a moustache-twirling villain.

Baine turned into a sad Quisling.

Gallywix is actively trying to destroy the planet.

Lor'themar...well, they haven't done much to Lor'themar. Because they haven't done much WITH him.

Nathanos' whole schtick is insulting the player. Which, to be fair, I kind of enjoy, but I know it rubs a lot of players the wrong way.

They even managed to make SAURFANG unpopular with Horde players.
10/26/2018 08:23 AMPosted by Hahahahahaha
Do nothing for 10 years but whine and complain that everyone is mean.

"pragmatic"


People actually argue that Sylvanas is pragmatic, the word has lost all meaning here.
10/26/2018 08:53 AMPosted by Carmageddon
You know, if we ever saw Baine do ONE thing for the Horde, maybe we wouldn't dislike him so much. But all he ever does is sit on the sidelines and complain. He just talks.

The real question: is it Blizzard's goal to have Horde players despise every single one of their faction leaders?

Lessee:

Thrall turned into a sulking teenager.

Vol'Jin turned into an unwitting dupe.

Sylvanas turned into a moustache-twirling villain.

Baine turned into a sad Quisling.

Gallywix is actively trying to destroy the planet.

Lor'themar...well, they haven't done much to Lor'themar. Because they haven't done much WITH him.

Nathanos' whole schtick is insulting the player. Which, to be fair, I kind of enjoy, but I know it rubs a lot of players the wrong way.

They even managed to make SAURFANG unpopular with Horde players.


I agree with this.

Before BfA...

Voljin was perhaps forward thinking and "many would not understand."

I didn't even care about Saurfang or Thrall (I like Eitrigg more than ever in BfA though).

Baine was a sympathetic character to me. He wants to avoid a Makgora not out of cowardice - but because of his people.

Heck, the Grimtotem almost took over after his father's death. His friendship with Anduin and Jaina saved his people. If he dies to Sylvanas in a Makgora, the Tauren would be leaderless and she would probably appoint a Grimtotem to lead.

I think he is playing cautiously and it makes sense to me. But it is not building up fan love.

I was a fan of Sylvanas and her leadership. But with 8.1, and Voljin being possibly tricked...now I doubt her leadership. Not to the point of treason - but I doubt her commands like never before.

Lothremar and Liadrin have been kept relatively clean and consistent. Thankfully. They both got new outfits...what ever that portends.

So... Yeah. I pretty much mistrust the entire Horde EXCEPT the Blood Elves, Eitrigg, Thalyssra, and Rokhan.
10/26/2018 08:53 AMPosted by Carmageddon
You know, if we ever saw Baine do ONE thing for the Horde, maybe we wouldn't dislike him so much. But all he ever does is sit on the sidelines and complain. He just talks.

The real question: is it Blizzard's goal to have Horde players despise every single one of their faction leaders?

Lessee:

Thrall turned into a sulking teenager.

Vol'Jin turned into an unwitting dupe.

Sylvanas turned into a moustache-twirling villain.

Baine turned into a sad Quisling.

Gallywix is actively trying to destroy the planet.

Lor'themar...well, they haven't done much to Lor'themar. Because they haven't done much WITH him.

Nathanos' whole schtick is insulting the player. Which, to be fair, I kind of enjoy, but I know it rubs a lot of players the wrong way.

They even managed to make SAURFANG unpopular with Horde players.


I can't agree with this enough. It's astounding how badly they've managed to ruin the Horde leadership. Vol'jin being a dupe stung pretty bad.

It's just Lor'themar that I still really care about and at this point, I keep praying that he stays in obscurity so they don't break him, too.
10/26/2018 08:23 AMPosted by Hahahahahaha
Do nothing for 10 years but whine and complain that everyone is mean.

"pragmatic"
Hey, that was pretty much Sylvanas up until Legion, so when you think about it, that’s kinda true. I mean, not counting WC3, she’s had as much of a role in the major story as Baine in WoW if just slightly more.
Baine isn't pragmatic as much as he is "sophisticated."

He realizes the faction wars are stupid and the world would be a better place if the factions could learn to get along. And he is right.

The thing is - that's not fun. This game was built on faction conflict and many people don't want peacemakers like Anduin and Baine to succeed.
They should have any other character ask for negotiations. Baine asking for it is not doing his already weak characterization any favors.
10/26/2018 09:08 AMPosted by Cursewords
Baine was a sympathetic character to me. He wants to avoid a Makgora not out of cowardice - but because of his people.

Heck, the Grimtotem almost took over after his father's death. His friendship with Anduin and Jaina saved his people. If he dies to Sylvanas in a Makgora, the Tauren would be leaderless and she would probably appoint a Grimtotem to lead.

I think he is playing cautiously and it makes sense to me. But it is not building up fan love.

I can honestly say I didn't think of it like this but, that is really a good point on why Baine is being so passive. If he were to fall Slyvanas could just put anyone in charge and pretty much destroy what his father and he had been working on, that being restoring their tribe to it's former strength.

It does make some of his actions a little more tolerable but, it still doesn't excuse, IMO, him sending a part of his horn to Anduin or his in general to friendly attitude to the Alliance as a whole. It is still something to keep in mind when judging Baine's actions.
10/26/2018 11:53 AMPosted by Grandblade
They should have any other character ask for negotiations. Baine asking for it is not doing his already weak characterization any favors.


I disagree.

Baine SHOULD be the one who brings it up. He has worked with the Alliance against other Horde members in the past. He has the best experience at grasping the benefits of diplomacy.

It is consistent. And - it makes sense.

If Nathanos or Eitrigg mentioned it... it might be misinterpreted.
10/26/2018 11:57 AMPosted by Rancore
It does make some of his actions a little more tolerable but, it still doesn't excuse, IMO, him sending a part of his horn to Anduin or his in general to friendly attitude to the Alliance as a whole. It is still something to keep in mind when judging Baine's actions.
Oh that was just Baine lowkey telling Anduin that he likes him and he wants him.

*eyebrow waggle*
10/26/2018 11:57 AMPosted by Cursewords
10/26/2018 11:53 AMPosted by Grandblade
They should have any other character ask for negotiations. Baine asking for it is not doing his already weak characterization any favors.


I disagree.

Baine SHOULD be the one who brings it up. He has worked with the Alliance against other Horde members in the past. He has the best experience at grasping the benefits of diplomacy.

It is consistent. And - it makes sense.

If Nathanos or Eitrigg mentioned it... it might be misinterpreted.
Unfortunately, yes, you're correct. It IS consistent with his character. Which is part of a continual problem.
10/26/2018 11:58 AMPosted by Calixto
Oh that was just Baine lowkey telling Anduin that he likes him and he wants him.

*eyebrow waggle*

Out of the two, who you'd think is the top? I think they would spend the night explaining to each other how the other was more deserving of being on top. lol

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum