Spells need to be Baseline again

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
Since Pandaria you started taking away Baseline Spells and put them into talents.
I honestly don't know why you do this but it feels wrong overall to use talent to make a spec playable.
Those things need to change. You need to put some more effort in talent choices and stop ripping characters apart to fill that stupid talent tree.
It feels like no skill is needed anymore. Just hit the flashy Button and dont overcap Ressources. WoW explained...

Just a few honorable mentions which spell were baseline once:
(I would love to cover all Classes but I think, you get the Idea pretty fast, once you see the long list of things missing.)

MAGE:

All Mage were able to use spell from other Mageschools like:
Evocation
Flamestrike
Arcane Explosion
Icelance
Cone of cold
Blizzard
Shatter(passive)

Talents and passives which were baseline once:
Mirror Image
Ebonbolt
Blast Wave
Phoenix Flames
Flame Patch
Living Bomb
Tinder

Scrapped over the years(useable for all Speccs):
Frostfire Bolt
Mage Armor
Fire Armor
Frost Armor
Managem
Alter Time (hardly missed)
Deep Freeze

Warlock:

Talents and passives which were baseline once:
Drain Soul
Demonic Circle
Mortal Coil
Haunt
Dark Souls
Curse of Shadow
Curse of Tounges
Curse of Weakness
Doom
Nether Ward
Soul Fire

Scrapped over the years(useable for all Speccs):
Life Tap
Curse of Enfeeblment
Voidwalker:Disarm
Howl of Terror
Twilight Ward
Succubus:Whiplash
Soul Shatter
Fel Flame
Dark Intend
Unending Resolve

(Mistakes happen but I tried to remember the best I can)

All these talents and stuff made this game to a "ROLEPLAY- Game".
Pruning, scrapping and stuff were made to make WoW a competetive E-Sport Title and for casuality.
First of, it will never ever be a good ESport title... And it will never be casual friendly.
The sooner you see that you have to bring back a lot of stuff and give back some char progression, the better will it be for out beloved game what you guys are about to destroy.
Three words.

Three words that have infected the industry to some degree.

Ease of Development.
Yeah but it seems like that "Ease of Development" doesn't fit in all kinds of genres.

So many people complain about homogenisation and pruning and still they let it happen.

A Fire Mage throwing an Icelance??? What?? No, get rif of it.

Out of the Sight of Roleplay:

"Im a mighty Firemage.
I feel like this "Fire Mage School" is the most favorite Mageschool I was in.
The other ones were good to but Fire , wow that was nice, i wanna know more about it. Maybe I can use something useful from what ive learned anyways.
Frost could come handy I guess."

It's like learning math and you instantly forget how to divide things cause you loved to add things. This doesn't make any sense and it doesn't feel good in many many ways.

BTW im not hiding, im just from Europe and European Forums are more like...let's say no one cares
Many paladin spells should be baseline as well

Prime example is rule of law for holy, absolutely no reason it needs to be a talent because we arnt viable in raids without it
I played Vanilla and some talents were spells there, too. It's not new.
For Prot Paladins it's easy:

Judgement of Light which was a baseline spell since classic wow or TBC can't be sure, now a talent since WoD I think, for a spell that does very little it feels like a joke being obligated to grab it. Which goes to show you just how bad the other talents in that row are to be taking JoL over them. That talent needs to be made baseline since every single prot paladin takes it, there are times we might take another talent there but those are very rare situations, it's not the norm.

Another talent that needs to be baseline is Hand of the Protector. Paladins have always been known as a class that helps other classes either through certain spells like blessings but also with heals. Ret and Prot paladin had the advantage of doing off heals to try and help out the healers. One of our main purpose as a class, relegated to a talent. Flash of Light has a cast time and when tanking you don't have time to be casting a heal on someone else. Lay on Hands is once per 10 mins. JoL heals for very little. The only reliable way a prot paladin can off heal is with Hand of Protector. Druids have their roar, warriors have their shout and so on. Our utility is the ability to off heal, and that should not be locked behind 2 talents (HoP and JoL).

Another one is Cavalier. I'm glad they removed one of the 2 talents that affected our mobility in Legion, but they removed the wrong one. Also it wasn't about removing one, it was about making one baseline. Knights Templar should've been the one that took Cavalier's spot and Cavalier should've been made baseline.

Removing those 3 talents opens up for 3 new talents which hopefully will be more interesting. And also there would have to be some rework on some talents to bring them all in balance. You can't have 1 talent outperforming the other 2 talents in that row by a big margin. It doesn't always have to be about the amount of damage or heal it does. Sometimes it's just a question of duration or cooldown as well. Aegis of Light is a cool spell for example, but being on a 3 min CD means that you might be able to use it once per fight, and there are boss fights where sometimes being able to use it 3 or 4 times would help a lot. Not to mention that you can't move while casting it. But even so I would probably take it if it wasn't for Judgement of Light. JoL is something reliable that is always active even if the heal is very little it's something I can depend on to help my group.

Another thing made baseline and that is for all 3 specs, Auras. Something that is part of paladin lore you can say on pretty much any game that has paladins in them. Auras are part of the class identity not spec identity, and to have them locked behind a talent is a joke. Not to mention that if you are going to force me to choose it as a talent to have auras, it better damn well be something amazing, not the lack luster ret aura that we have in prot.
11/02/2018 07:30 AMPosted by Nixri
I played Vanilla and some talents were spells there, too. It's not new.
Eh for the most part thru the first 3 variations of the game ( vanilla, bc , wotlk) Only your max level talent was spec specific, for the most part. There are some exceptions. But this expansion is out of control.
My Mage has forgotten a lot of stuff over the years.

Hes either totally stupid or just gettin old...
Completely agree with the post, we should have more base line abilities, I mean, years passing, you become more "powerful", but you are forgetting abilities, it has make sense? not for me, as the guy above said, "I am a mage, I am specialized in one magic school", sure, but it doesnt mean I have to forgot other spells who can help me in combat, I'm a battle mage, not a circus mage who use one kind of spell to impress people.

Here's an example,
you are in a war, and you are the sniper, so you only just carry your sniper rifle and nothing else? no right? You are carrying your pistol and your knife, guess why? cause it help you in battle in case a unexpected situation appears.

Its the same in this case
Next expansion really needs a complete rework of talents. Move spells back to the baseline and bring talent trees back. I doubt they'd ever completely go back to talent trees so you can even keep the current system in some way, for example as a every 20 lvls big talent choice between 2 things or something along side old style trees. A mixture of the two talent systems would be amazing to bring new life into the game.
11/03/2018 05:59 PMPosted by Blazur
Next expansion really needs a complete rework of talents.
I'm not waiting two more years.
11/03/2018 06:02 PMPosted by Masoschism
11/03/2018 05:59 PMPosted by Blazur
Next expansion really needs a complete rework of talents.
I'm not waiting two more years.


I been waiting since WoD ended. How naive I am.
I love(d) this game but it turned out to be builder/spender 90% of the time.

All classes Build and spend except a few. Baseline spells for years and years went into talents... Im missing the MMO Features. My Mage must be really stupid to forget this stuff.
Please give us back something to feel unique. It's there in the game but you just don't see it yet. I don't care if i need 20 bars to cover my spells...

And the best thing you could do is not to wait till 9.0 after this Blizzcon^^
The short of it is really:

Gear is being used to make a specialization feel complete, because even with full talents chosen the classes are still very ordinary and incredibly homogenized. It is only when we have a bunch of different Azerite traits chosen and passive defensives from the gear that we begin to feel like we have some individuality.

Just give it some thought, if all the effects on gear were in the talents, then the talents would be baseline to save space, and then gear could actually be bolstering one or more of these effects over the top to really give us an edge in certain raids. Then the idea behind each raid can be shifted slightly so that gear favors the kind of play required there (maybe the raid is heavy on adds, so gear from there gives more AoE effects to augment your baseline and talented abilities).

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