Appropriate Add Ons

Classic Discussion
With the Classic panel it was brought up that Blizzard wasn't sure what to do with add-ons. So, it would be a good time to discuss what add ons would and wouldn't be good to have.

Now obviously, anything that was banned or purposely broken at any point wouldn't be included. UI ones I don't see any problem with, unless there is something I'm missing on those. Definitely want one to fix enemy health bars fighting for your screen.

Blizzard did mention ones that played your class for you. I'm not aware of any personally unless I'm unaware of Blizzard's definition of what qualifys as one.

I see DBM and equivalents being a hot debate. That one I'm not sure of.

I didn't start playing until Wrath. So, my knowledge of Vanilla add ons is limited. What add ons do you remember being very good or being too good to have? What about modern ones?
My personal opinion: no modern quest helpers. The "difficult" questing experience is an essential part of well... the classic experience.
11/08/2018 11:32 AMPosted by Vilebane
My personal opinion: no modern quest helpers. The "difficult" questing experience is an essential part of well... the classic experience.

So, things like Questie would be okay, but not like Auto Azeroth for example?
Anything that attempts to circumvent Blizzard's decision to not include a modern group finder would be inappropriate (by Ion's own words). There's even one that Blizzard has broken in Retail and warned addon makers not to try to circumvent, so anything like that should be a no-go.
11/08/2018 11:32 AMPosted by Vilebane
My personal opinion: no modern quest helpers. The "difficult" questing experience is an essential part of well... the classic experience.


Wouldn't that be made moot by anyone who just goes to wowhead and looks up the quest and see what they need to do and read the comments?

most people play with 2+ screens. and even alt-tabbing will be faster to read the quest comments on wowhead than it would to read the text and go hunting for where some part of the zone is you haven't explored yet -- or know which mobs will drop what.
11/08/2018 11:41 AMPosted by Sinkasumi
11/08/2018 11:32 AMPosted by Vilebane
My personal opinion: no modern quest helpers. The "difficult" questing experience is an essential part of well... the classic experience.

So, things like Questie would be okay, but not like Auto Azeroth for example?


Yeah, pretty much. It seems pretty granular, but I feel like there's a huge difference when something feels like it's complementing the experience versus when it feels like it's a different experience entirely.

11/08/2018 11:42 AMPosted by Isharya
11/08/2018 11:32 AMPosted by Vilebane
My personal opinion: no modern quest helpers. The "difficult" questing experience is an essential part of well... the classic experience.


Wouldn't that be made moot by anyone who just goes to wowhead and looks up the quest and see what they need to do and read the comments?

most people play with 2+ screens. and even alt-tabbing will be faster to read the quest comments on wowhead than it would to read the text and go hunting for where some part of the zone is you haven't explored yet -- or know which mobs will drop what.


Not really, at least not for me. Similar to what I said above, when I quest I will sometimes do exactly what you're saying. However, that requires a level of input and engaging in what you're doing. There are modern quest addons out there that do FAR more than that and allow you to completely disengage from what you're doing which, when I tried it, made questing feel completely different and it felt like I was on a train along for the ride versus driving my car.

Just my opinion from my experiences. Others may be different.
11/08/2018 11:25 AMPosted by Sinkasumi
With the Classic panel it was brought up that Blizzard wasn't sure what to do with add-ons. So, it would be a good time to discuss what add ons would and wouldn't be good to have.

Now obviously, anything that was banned or purposely broken at any point wouldn't be included. UI ones I don't see any problem with, unless there is something I'm missing on those. Definitely want one to fix enemy health bars fighting for your screen.

Blizzard did mention ones that played your class for you. I'm not aware of any personally unless I'm unaware of Blizzard's definition of what qualifys as one.

I see DBM and equivalents being a hot debate. That one I'm not sure of.

I didn't start playing until Wrath. So, my knowledge of Vanilla add ons is limited. What add ons do you remember being very good or being too good to have? What about modern ones?


For addons that I remember using:
-I had several UI addons for moving and showing more bars, moving bags etc.

-Map/gather addons that let you add notes to the map and marked locations you had gathered at making it easier to plan a good gathering route through a zone.

-CT-Raid assist was a dbm like addon that tracked the timers for the big boss mechanics in raids and could flash warning on the screen.

-I did use a damage meters but never used a threat meter, would probably get both now though.

-Auctioneer was great to give you an idea on what prices items should roughly be so you dont way overpay for something and to let you know what recipes you found should roughly sell for.

I probably had more, but thats all I really recall
There are questing addons in live now like TomTom (I don't use them personally) that will put an arrow on your screen and tell you exactly where to go.. or tell you in what order to do things for optimal leveling.

That, okay i can see not being there and im fine with that. But playing vanilla myself i remember vividly just going to thottbot or allakhazam and later wowhead to see where a quest is completed at. You're really just adding 2 minutes to my "quest read" time as opposed to 20 minutes of hide and seek on quest mobs.

The biggest thing is technology outside of wow has expanded. Hell i could just YOUTUBE a quest and probably find someone doing it and follow them. There are no secrets in vanilla wow, and between discord, youtube, wowhead, google in general, im going to find a lot of information or tools that will get me whatever i need if a particular addon is disabled. Or your average player will at least.
While this talk is about addons, let me give an example from the macro side of things - the structure and formatting has changed. There are pros and cons to both systems and I feel if we have to use the new one? There will be some things lost or impossible to recreate - for better or worse.

(And I'm of the opinion if its not possible to recreate it's worse, period, even if the devs didn't like that we could do it, the point is that we could, therefore we should have it, despite later decisions to remove or disable certain functionality.)

Let me give an example! If you were a hunter, and you wanted to be good at it, you'd go look up a guide and see what kind of macros other hunters were using to optimize their performance. Hunters, of course, have a limitation in that ranged abilities have a minimum distance required to be used, anything closer must be done as melee. Ordinarily in combat you might press a certain set of keybinds, but in close range, you'd have to switch to a different set of binds.

Or... how about not?

/script PetAttack()
/run if CheckInteractDistance("target", 3) then CastSpellByName("Raptor Strike(Rank 1") else CastSpellByName("Arcane Shot(Rank 1)") end


Would this fall under 'automating' my rotation? Because it checks how far away the target is before chosing what to do when I press that button? How is that different than modern global cooldown macros for instant abilities?

Now let's bring in addons like SuperMacro. This one is wicked because it will allow you check debuffs.

/script PetDefensiveMode()PetAttack();if CheckInteractDistance("target",3)and(not PlayerFrame.inCombat)then AttackTarget()elseif not IsAutoRepeatAction(1)then cast("Auto Shot") end if not buffed("Hunter's Mark","target") then cast("Hunter's Mark") end

Now this one:
- sets pet to defensive
- attacks with your pet
- sets hunter's mark
- attacks with ranged weapon if in valid range
- attacks with melee weapon if in melee range

Macros are all about condensing things down into "how few buttons can I press this in" and simplifying that rotation. However, not everyone equally seeks out these things, giving some players a massive advantage.

But I'm going to consider this to the same level of advantage that
/Console CameraDistanceMaxFactor 5
was in terms of being able to zoom out just a bit more - to predict oncoming enemies - whether computer or player. And this was a change they deemed unfair and removed for Legion in addition to changing the camera in several other weird ways that gave me a headache.

Yes, these things do give some players a huge advantage because they are not built in and not everyone goes looking for them to even know they exist.

But these were advantages that were available in vanilla and, while it may not be baseline, it will be different than the original experience not to have access to it. Some of these overpowered advantages were baseline requirements for raiding, afterall. I'll leave my concern with that one line alone.

You can be a good player without the macros, but a certain level of automation is expected to efficient or competitive. The serious PVPers and Raiders already knew about this stuff and it didn't impact casual players at all that they had it. If they wanted to be not-casual, a simple Google search would have put these macros and addons in their hands. Guildies told you about this stuff, expected you to have this stuff.

And we... apparently... just won't them, instead. Some of us will have a harder time dealing with that than others because it won't be the experience we remembered.

I can play without this extra automation -- but it's this sort of automation that paved the way to the more simplified rotations that we use today. Slippery slopes and all that.

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