How is Saurfang honorable?

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11/08/2018 04:25 PMPosted by Rhuor
Because he didn’t defect. He attempted to hold off the Alliance army on his own. Anduin took him prisoner despite Saurfang asking for death. And then he left the prison when Anduin left open the door.

The real traitor is the woman who changed the definition of the Horde, decided to forsake almost every other race except for her precious meat shields, decided to start a war the Horde wasn’t ready for because she needed more bodies to raise for her “totally not mentally conditioned army”, and actively seeks world domination.

Saurfang is the embodiment of the real Horde playerbase: exhausted of the constant bad writing the Horde has to put up with to fulfill the fantasy of some edgelords getting their evil kicks, but being forced to do something about it because otherwise why bother playing the game. I think he’s perfect for those of us tired of this ridiculous situation.
This guy gets it.
Honor is like the word "classy" - the more you say it, the less likely it is that you have it or even know what it means.
11/08/2018 06:59 PMPosted by Bourdeau
Was Vol'jin honorable when he seeked the Alliance's help against Garrosh? It seems like Saurfang is doing the same thing, only difference is Sylvanas is warchief


Vol'jin never agreed to any of Garrosh's plan.

Saurfang agreed, suggest, strategize, and lead Horde attack on Teldrassil on their mission to kill Malfurion, only to abandon their entire objective because he felt like it, then when Sylvanas asks "So what will you do when they launch counterattack?", he just said "I will deal with it somehow".

Later he tried to suicide himself marching alone to Alliance army, oh he also refuse to kill the enemy king back in siege of Lordaeron when he got the chance.

If you try to do this kind of stunt in real military situation, you'd be killed on the spot by your own faction.

Dude is delusional, especially when he said "My Horde", what a joke.
11/08/2018 05:08 PMPosted by Jagd
11/08/2018 05:00 PMPosted by Aethevale

Now Saurfang did not always agree with Sylvanas on her way of doing things, but he followed her as his Warchief. It was not until the burning of Teldrassil that he lost faith in her. As that was NOT the plan that he and the other leaders had agreed to. At that point Sylvanas went from the Warchief of a Honorable Horde (Debatable i'm sure), to a genocidal maniac.



Problem is, Saurfang started a war not by demand or order, but because he saw the merit in Sylvanas' idea. Saurfang saw that the horde needed this victory over the alliance for peace in the future. Then when it was time to finish what they started by killing Malfurion, he decides suddenly to spare him. What did he think would happen now?? They just sacked all of Ashenvale and Darkshore, laid waste to night elf cities, then just walk away and the Alliance would do nothing in return? "All cool bro, sorry about the small war we started"? Sylvanas was left with no choice but to follow through and burn Teldrassil to protect Orgrimmar now.[/quote]

Can I ask Horde one simple question. I'll space it out.

WHAT DID ORGRIMMAR NEED PROTECTION FROM BEFORE YOU STARTED ANOTHER WAR?

Do tell.
11/08/2018 04:25 PMPosted by Swiftraven
he isn't, because crying in a jail cell hoping that your enemy beats up your faction leader instead of taking action yourself is not honourable.


No, it makes him smart. He has not seen a single Horde leader that opposes the leadership of Syvalans let along one with the back bone to confront her. So he was the sole voice against her and he is smart enough to know it was only a matter of time before Sylvanas would silence him.

He never intended to defect to the Alliance, he intended to die. Anduin just had another plan in mind. Hell even after their little talk and Anduin sets him free, he still doesn't stay with the Alliance. He is living out in the middle of no where and as he expected Sylvanas is still trying to kill him to ensure he isn't a threat to her leadership.

You can have honor without following the order of a murderess leader.
11/08/2018 06:59 PMPosted by Bourdeau
Was Vol'jin honorable when he seeked the Alliance's help against Garrosh? It seems like Saurfang is doing the same thing, only difference is Sylvanas is warchief


He didnt. Vol'jin started a rebellion.

Saurfang stood aside hoping that the Alliance would do it for him, and sat in a cell doing nothing when they failed.
#alwaysabloodelf
In military doctrine, it is dishonorable to kill civilians or destroy an area that doesn't pose a military threat. Refusing to obey an order do so could be consider treasonous, but unless your entire government or regime is corrupt, no real harm will come from this. Anyone else with a shred of honor among your ranks will agree with your decision to disobey such an order. Saurfang falls into this category. Much like Uther refused to purge Stratholme at Athas' command, even facing the penalty of being expelled from his order.
I hate to say this but fictional characters do not have actual feelings or motivations. They have writers - some of whom are just shills doing what the little weird guy in accounting and the creepy game psychologist are telling them to say.

Cookies for all!
11/08/2018 04:27 PMPosted by Lemres
11/08/2018 04:25 PMPosted by Swiftraven
he isn't, because crying in a jail cell hoping that your enemy beats up your faction leader instead of taking action yourself is not honourable.


What can he do when he's only got a single random troll in his side?

Vol'jin could make up a revolution with minimal (at best) help from the Alliance because Garrosh was stupid enough to alienate non-Orc races in public.

Saurfang cannot exploit a similar flaw in Sylvanas. We only know she's toxic to the Horde because of her thoughts.

*replays Lordaeron Scenario*
Yea, ummm.... Baine Bloodhoof would like a word with you

#hangSaurfang
"Honor, young heroes. No matter how dire the battle, never forsake it."

- Saurfang at Icecrown Citadel
11/09/2018 05:47 AMPosted by Sarcasmic
"Honor, young heroes. No matter how dire the battle, never forsake it."

- Saurfang at Icecrown Citadel


"Suicide, young heroes. You know your crazy when the sanest thing you do is jump off the tower and kill yourself"

- Sylvanas at Icecrown Citadel
This answer is easy.

Imagine a country you love and grew up so proud of suddenly comes under rule of said country, and starts doing atrocities, things you know are wrong and vile, sullying the name of your country. Now you love your country you've bleed for it, gave everything you had to it.... But this monster was destroying that.

The honorable thing to do for the idea of the country you love would be to fight for it against the monster destroying it. Even if it means aligning with people you wouldn't call friend, but you know they value muchof the same principals your country used to.

There is honor in that, you are fighting against something you love because it's become a shadow of what it was. You fight against it to restore it.
11/08/2018 05:30 PMPosted by Tahrund
Orcish honor, which basically means honor in combat: fighting front to front, not killing unarmed or defenseless enemies(Though orcs did that when they were bloodlusted by Mannaroth's blood, which also broke their pride for quite sometime and it took Thrall to give them motivation to fight again.), not run away from combat and respect your opponent.

Sylvannas broke them all, so he feels like she is destroying the horde, which in a way she is, Thrall's horde(good bois horde) was never about starting wars, but fighting them because you had no other choice, Sylvannas is basically leading the horde to the old ways, where their only motivation was to conquer and destroy.

In other words, to start wars and kill everything in your path, including civilians.
The 'Path of Glory' didn't pave itself.
and Orcs have ALWAYS committed genocide, whether they had some 'demon blood' or not.
Remember, Mr. Revisionist, the orcs are INVADERS. Nothing more, nothing less.
11/08/2018 04:25 PMPosted by Rhuor
Because he didn’t defect. He attempted to hold off the Alliance army on his own. Anduin took him prisoner despite Saurfang asking for death. And then he left the prison when Anduin left open the door.

The real traitor is the woman who changed the definition of the Horde, decided to forsake almost every other race except for her precious meat shields, decided to start a war the Horde wasn’t ready for because she needed more bodies to raise for her “totally not mentally conditioned army”, and actively seeks world domination.

Saurfang is the embodiment of the real Horde playerbase: exhausted of the constant bad writing the Horde has to put up with to fulfill the fantasy of some edgelords getting their evil kicks, but being forced to do something about it because otherwise why bother playing the game. I think he’s perfect for those of us tired of this ridiculous situation.


Well said.
Honor is about doing what's right, not what you're told. Anyone who has paid any attention to the culture of Orcs within the Horde would know you don't just go blindly following someone while they commit genocide.

The Orcs were only allied with the Forsaken because of convenience and geography after coming through the dark portal. It actually makes almost no sense that they are still allied with the Forsaken now that queen emo-elf is their "leader".

Like seriously, if this was 8 years ago no one in their right mind would believe a Forsaken could be leader of the Horde and Orcs would follow them.
Yeah...

He's leaving a lot of us to possibly die if he joins the Alliance...

Also, what about his new son Zekhan? (Zappy boi) Is he just going to leave him behind?
11/08/2018 04:25 PMPosted by Rhuor
Because he didn’t defect. He attempted to hold off the Alliance army on his own. Anduin took him prisoner despite Saurfang asking for death. And then he left the prison when Anduin left open the door.

The real traitor is the woman who changed the definition of the Horde, decided to forsake almost every other race except for her precious meat shields, decided to start a war the Horde wasn’t ready for because she needed more bodies to raise for her “totally not mentally conditioned army”, and actively seeks world domination.

Saurfang is the embodiment of the real Horde playerbase: exhausted of the constant bad writing the Horde has to put up with to fulfill the fantasy of some edgelords getting their evil kicks, but being forced to do something about it because otherwise why bother playing the game. I think he’s perfect for those of us tired of this ridiculous situation.


Ok if he wanted to leave. why not come when we asked him too. No the dude has no honor. Do some quest in cata zone and come back tell me he has honor.

11/08/2018 05:00 PMPosted by Aethevale
Sylvanas is backstabbing, ruthless and manipulative, all of which is at odds with the Warrior class of the Horde. Of which Saurfang stands at the for front.


Suarfanng in video admitted to pretty much everything you described as Sylvanas. just saying both are pretty much the same. difference is and think most say no. if he or other challenge her. she would accept and win. with exception of maybe thrall winning. Not sure with his lost of power. Most forget Sylvanas stood up to Herllscream. No one else did. Got her knocked down. But she did it nevertheless.
Well Lest I am happy to stand by him while Horde go beyond once I fought for.....
11/08/2018 04:13 PMPosted by Ishtásoñda
If Saurfang has honor why did he defect to the allies?
Honor verb "fulfill (an obligation) or keep (an agreement)."
Traitor noun "a person who betrays a friend, country, and principle"
Honor noun "high respect; esteem."
So Saurfang as a warrior with his "honor" decided to give up his will to fight and give up then to become a traitor and people think hes a good person and should be the next warchief? And that is ok?

Times change. Rulers, politics, ideals, culture... all change. What matters is staying true to the mission.

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