How is Saurfang honorable?

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11/09/2018 11:37 PMPosted by Mortex
If he wanted to challenge her, dying in this fashion would have been the most effective option to show others what he wanted them to see (Sylvanas not caring about orc ideas of honor).


In "Good War" he realizes that he and Sylvanas are very different in the way they see things including war, not because one is better than the other but because they are different peoples who do things differently. Shame he didn't remember that before letting himself be taken by the Alliance.
Love it how almost everyone sucking up to sylvanas is a forsaken player.
"Lost Honor"

I guess they didn't make it obvious enough
Is it too late to whip out a 'morally gray' joke?
11/12/2018 12:56 AMPosted by Anufenrir
Love it how almost everyone sucking up to sylvanas is a forsaken player.


You're several years too late. I've liked her since the original WC3. Nice try though.
11/12/2018 12:56 AMPosted by Anufenrir
Love it how almost everyone sucking up to sylvanas is a forsaken player.

Yeah it's crazy that the Forsaken players like the leader of the Forsaken.
11/08/2018 04:48 PMPosted by Ishtásoñda
Aehl you are wrong look at the definition of Honor and traitor at that or read my 1st post its all there those are facts

You are dense
11/08/2018 04:25 PMPosted by Rhuor
Because he didn’t defect. He attempted to hold off the Alliance army on his own. Anduin took him prisoner despite Saurfang asking for death. And then he left the prison when Anduin left open the door.

The real traitor is the woman who changed the definition of the Horde, decided to forsake almost every other race except for her precious meat shields, decided to start a war the Horde wasn’t ready for because she needed more bodies to raise for her “totally not mentally conditioned army”, and actively seeks world domination.

Saurfang is the embodiment of the real Horde playerbase: exhausted of the constant bad writing the Horde has to put up with to fulfill the fantasy of some edgelords getting their evil kicks, but being forced to do something about it because otherwise why bother playing the game. I think he’s perfect for those of us tired of this ridiculous situation.


Saurfang is a guild hopper
11/10/2018 01:54 AMPosted by Kudger
I suggest you watch the film Judgement at Nuremberg


Have and many others.

However, Azeroth is not the reality I live in. I have never had to fight for my right to survive nevermind been hated by multiple nations and factions. So I do not apply modern ethics or morals or religious beliefs to my fantasy life in Azeroth.

My main is an orc but my real affinity is for the Forsaken due to Sylvanas Windrunner and all she has endured since WC3. As a member of the Forsaken fighting for survival, the right to even be is something we do. And that means my characters may do things the irl me, may or may not. That said, I understand why she does what she does and it's okay with me.

But that does not give you the right to call or intimate that I or those of the same gaming mindset are evil or fail to understand the difference. I'd say it's not us but you because you are insisting we must at the very least see our game life through your lens.
11/12/2018 02:12 AMPosted by Lorash
11/12/2018 12:56 AMPosted by Anufenrir
Love it how almost everyone sucking up to sylvanas is a forsaken player.

Yeah it's crazy that the Forsaken players like the leader of the Forsaken.


Considering how no other race's players are even remotely as devoted to their faction leader as forsaken players are to the waifu, yes, it is a little odd. Even orc players didn't like Thrall or Garrosh nearly as much and Thrall literally was the face of Warcraft for a good long while.
11/08/2018 04:27 PMPosted by Swiftraven
11/08/2018 04:25 PMPosted by Rhuor
He attempted to hold off the Alliance army on his own.


dude was literally trying to kill himself lmao


Why would I expect someone who mains a blood elf to understand the horde.
11/12/2018 03:01 AMPosted by Kudger
waifu,


That one little word explains volumes why you and others like you not only don't get it but have to use that term in order to attempt insulting those who disagree with you.

Excuse me while I roflmao!
11/12/2018 12:56 AMPosted by Anufenrir
Love it how almost everyone sucking up to sylvanas is a forsaken player.


And how almost everyone sticking up for Saurfang is an Alliance player.
11/12/2018 03:21 AMPosted by Jagd
11/12/2018 12:56 AMPosted by Anufenrir
Love it how almost everyone sucking up to sylvanas is a forsaken player.


And how almost everyone sticking up for Saurfang is an Alliance player.


Too true
11/12/2018 02:49 AMPosted by Onmyouji
However, Azeroth is not the reality I live in. I have never had to fight for my right to survive nevermind been hated by multiple nations and factions. So I do not apply modern ethics or morals or religious beliefs to my fantasy life in Azeroth.


Good comment. Like I said, I have nothing against people simply liking the story of Sylvanas and enjoying being the bad guy.

My point is that some people are going in a whole lot more depth defending her actions and criticizing Saurfang's to the point where it's really starting to look less like they just like the Sylvanas character and more like they genuinely consider Saurfang's actions as shameful, in WoW or elsewhere. I'm speaking mainly to the people who start bringing in moral relativism to make real world arguments for why Sylvanas isn't bad and why Saurfang is an honorees coward.

11/12/2018 02:49 AMPosted by Onmyouji
My main is an orc but my real affinity is for the Forsaken due to Sylvanas Windrunner and all she has endured since WC3. As a member of the Forsaken fighting for survival, the right to even be is something we do. And that means my characters may do things the irl me, may or may not. That said, I understand why she does what she does and it's okay with me.


I personally was a fan of Sylvanas from WC3 up thru WotLK. It's when they made her the Scourge 2.0 and, more importantly, layered the plot armor on thick & she just kept getting away with it that I started disliking her. All your arguments in her favor fly out the window when she started butchering the living to raise them into her undead foot soldiers and either killed or "conditioned" any who she even suspected of being disloyal.

At this point, she isn't fighting for the Forsaken to have a place in the world. She tricked the Forsaken with a promise to see their families again just so she could identify those who still had attachments to the living and kill them.

11/12/2018 02:49 AMPosted by Onmyouji
But that does not give you the right to call or intimate that I or those of the same gaming mindset are evil or fail to understand the difference. I'd say it's not us but you because you are insisting we must at the very least see our game life through your lens.


Again, I'm saying it's perfectly fine for people to want to play as a bad guy. Learn to read a post the whole way through before getting so defensive.
11/08/2018 04:13 PMPosted by Ishtásoñda
If Saurfang has honor why did he defect to the allies?


Brutus was an honourable man as well.
11/12/2018 03:09 AMPosted by Onmyouji
That one little word explains volumes why you and others like you not only don't get it but have to use that term in order to attempt insulting those who disagree with you.

Excuse me while I roflmao!


You're excused lol.

Seriously though, it's not for nothing that the character that has, by far, the most ardently attached fans happens to be an attractive female. I'd be happy to have a discussion on why that isn't the case and she's actually just that compelling a character but so far I just haven't seen it.

So far, the best arguments I've seen bring up the character she was pre-Cata and kind of gloss over what she's done since then while the worst arguments seek to bring in real world examples to justify everything she's done in Cata and beyond (which prompted my first post in this thread).
11/08/2018 04:33 PMPosted by Aehl
Honour often demands that of ourselves that which sometimes we are unwilling to give, honour demands that we obey that which we see is right, other than that is asked of us.

Nothing I have done since turning against the goa'uld will make up for the atrocities I once committed in their name. Somewhere deep inside you you knew it was wrong, a voice you did not recognize screamed for you to stop. You saw no way out, it was the way things were, they could not be changed. You're trying to convince yourself the people you're hurting deserved it. You became numb to their pain and suffering, you learned to shut out the voice speaking against it.

It is simple. You will never forgive yourself. Accept it. You hurt others, many others, that cannot be undone. You will never find personal retribution, but your life does not have to end. That which is right, just and true can still prevail. If you do not fight for what you believe in all may be lost for everyone else. But do not fight for yourself, fight for others, others that may be saved through your effort. That is the least you can do.


- T'ealc, once First Prime of Apophis.


Thank you for this, I absolutely love this line of the show. For those wanting to question “honor”, may I recommend trying to get a glimpse of it but going in reading the book of five rings.
11/08/2018 04:33 PMPosted by Aehl
Honour often demands that of ourselves that which sometimes we are unwilling to give, honour demands that we obey that which we see is right, other than that is asked of us.

...

- T'ealc, once First Prime of Apophis.


Thank you for this, I absolutely love this line of the show. For those wanting to question “honor”, may I recommend trying to get a glimpse of it but going in reading the book of five rings.


That is kinda funny you use a quote from a guy that betrays his master to serve under the enemy as a foot soldier. In which he still kills many of his old comrades and his old people he was sworn to protect.
They invaded the home worlds he used to protect. These people who are like Nazgrim, they stayed because of honor and loyalty to their lord, leader and god! And also it is their homes T'ealc and the sc1 crew invade with automatic weapons.
So yeah you just made my point Saurfang is a honorless traitor!

Vul'jin had his whole people and many other races in his revolt, no one is siding with Saurfang but one troll who is young and doesn't know any better because he remembers the old warrior Saurfang used to be, before he lost his will to fight and pride as a orc.
He didn't defect he was captured, and Anduin let him out to his own machinations just because he and the Prince have the same goals dosen't mean he serves the Alliance.

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