Why High Elves Don't Work: A Primer (Revisit)

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High elves are still part of the alliance.

If you want people to stop requesting them, ask Blizzard to either kill them off or make them into void elves.

You're putting way too much effort into spiting the idea of easily the most valid race option in the game right now.
And I really don't think it's because of your worry that it'll "blur faction lines" because guess what, you got purple night elves out of the blue, why is it so difficult for you to accept that Alliance have quel'dorei? You're just being unnecessary for no reason.

Also I find it really petty that you're making a thread claiming that High elf fans are delusional and wont listen after hundreds have proved you wrong already.

We listen perfectly fine, it's just that the 50% anti high elf folks throw arguments that are way too easily countered by facts and evidence in game, which is why they got drowned out. And the other 50% are people who troll us repeating "huehuehue Ion said no" or "high elves are blood elves lul".

The proof that High elves exist and are a crucial part of the alliance is constantly shoved in our faces. If you don't like that, take it up with the devs and stop spiting people who request a race that's, like I said, constantly paraded in our faces but not made playable, we don't control the lore.

And finally, I repeat this a lot. But if you don't want them to look the same, would it be okay for Blizzard to just slap on a different idle stance and tattoos? Because that seems to be enough to convince players that your purple elves don't look like our purple elves.
11/14/2018 08:29 AMPosted by Grythletubs
High elves are still part of the alliance.

If you want people to stop requesting them, ask Blizzard to either kill them off or make them into void elves.

You're putting way too much effort into spiting the idea of easily the most valid race option in the game right now.
And I really don't think it's because of your worry that it'll "blur faction lines" because guess what, you got purple night elves out of the blue, why is it so difficult for you to accept that Alliance have quel'dorei? You're just being unnecessary for no reason.

You attribute the worry of blurring faction lines to me, but it's not my words. Those are Ion's, when he described why they didn't go with High Elves and made Void Elves.
"..if what you want to be is a fair-skinned, light blonde-haired, tall, majestic elf...that is a Blood Elf. Um, and giving that race directly to the Alliance I would have blurred a lot of the lines between the two factions, but also there isn't a clear example of who or what High Elves are as a larger group that still remains in Azeroth.." - Ion Hazzikostas, Q&A, April 26, 2018

He pretty clearly says that they simply aren't different enough, and that High Elves have an identity problem.

11/14/2018 08:29 AMPosted by Grythletubs

Also I find it really petty that you're making a thread claiming that High elf fans are delusional and wont listen after hundreds have proved you wrong already.

We listen perfectly fine, it's just that the 50% anti high elf folks throw arguments that are way too easily countered by facts and evidence in game, which is why they got drowned out. And the other 50% are people who troll us repeating "huehuehue Ion said no" or "high elves are blood elves lul".

I love it when people just drop "we've proved you wrong" or "these have all been debunked" when we're sitting here in a still High Elf-less game.

The thread I have here is as simple a breakdown as I thought I could make. The title of the thread is "Why High Elves Don't Work", not "Why I Think High Elves are Dumb", not "Haha get Rekt High Elf fans", or "High Elves Stink, Change my Mind". It's a point by point explanation as to why they don't work, why they aren't in game, and why Blizzard went with Void Elves.

11/14/2018 08:29 AMPosted by Grythletubs

The proof that High elves exist and are a crucial part of the alliance is constantly shoved in our faces. If you don't like that, take it up with the devs and stop spiting people who request a race that's, like I said, constantly paraded in our faces but not made playable, we don't control the lore.

And finally, I repeat this a lot. But if you don't want them to look the same, would it be okay for Blizzard to just slap on a different idle stance and tattoos? Because that seems to be enough to convince players that your purple elves don't look like our purple elves.

What's the last major thing a High Elf did that wasn't Alleria (who again, is representing Void Elves now) that you consider "critical" to the Alliance? A couple mages making a shield in Warfronts? A portal trainer or vendor somewhere? Do you identify with no-name Shield Mages and Portal Masters?

Again, I am not the one who didn't want them to look the same. Blizzard pretty clearly said they wanted the Allied Races to feel distinct. I agree that they should definitely dial back the number of random High Elves in game, and make the Void Elf presence more felt, but that's setting the scene and backdrop of the story. As player characters, they're pretty clear to most that they didn't feel High Elves worked with Blood Elves being as popular and prominent in Horde ranks as they are.
High Elves need to be annihilated already. All of them.
11/13/2018 06:25 PMPosted by Lydon
11/13/2018 06:00 PMPosted by Talendrion

That's what sucks for people that liked the ranger fantasy, no group of Elves is actually leaning on it right now, feeling almost like filler when it shows up.

IMO the only actual complaint I have about Blood Elves as a whole is that they really don't use Ranger themes as part of their identity. They are there, sure, but it feels like they'd rather explore the other aspects of BE culture over that.

I'm sorry, what? Haulduron and Lor'themar were both Farstriders and ranked up. The Farstriders make up one third of the 3 main branches of the Blood Elven military (the other two being Blood Knights and Magisters).
Sylvanas, the previous ranger-general was the reason Blood Elves had an in to even join the Horde.
Hunter Tier 19 armor is Farstrider Mail (Normal coloring is traditional Farstrider Green/Gold colors), with Mythic being literally Sylvanas' armor, and the Horde PVP version being Blood Elven Red/Gold Green hightlighted armor.

I don't know what game you're playing where you think Blood Elves aren't associated with Rangers.


I'm saying the Ranger themes are underutilized, and the pretend otherwise is just being oblivious.

Elves fantasy in War2 was based around its rangers, and now it's like the 3 or fourth relevant theme they have going on, and it's pretty disingenuous to say they are just as relevant as the others because they get paid lip service. What was once the core of their appeal is not the least relevant of all they have going for them.

Lor'themar was a Farstrider, Sylvanas was a Farstrider. Those aren't the roles they fulfill now and that's the issue, the Ranger themes are backdrop at best, a carry over they are not interested to use.

Are you really going to tell me that the Farstriders get the same amount of relevance than Blood Knights? Than the Sunreavers, the Magisters have gotten? The freaking Reliquary?

The only relevant things we have seen Farstriders do is being soldiers and Halduron standing outside of Zul'aman in Cata and his participation on the Unseen Path, which are hilariously the same appearances the Silver Covenant has made.

Also did you really claim that the PvP hunter armor being red is Farstrider lore? What does that make the blue one then lol?

IMO Since the Ghostlands, every expansion dedicates less and less focus to the Ranger themes. What was the last time a Ranger character was even a little bit relevant besides Halduron? Elsia showed up on MoP and that was it, Orestes came back for Legion and then died.

Like come on, it really feels like you are arguing against me out of principle for "defending" Blood Elves rather than actually understanding my opinion.
11/13/2018 08:03 PMPosted by Lydon
A very vocal minority wants them.
Very funny everyone I know in game wants them and they never post online.
11/14/2018 09:18 PMPosted by Talendrion

I'm saying the Ranger themes are underutilized, and the pretend otherwise is just being oblivious.

Elves fantasy in War2 was based around its rangers, and now it's like the 3 or fourth relevant theme they have going on, and it's pretty disingenuous to say they are just as relevant as the others because they get paid lip service. What was once the core of their appeal is not the least relevant of all they have going for them.

Lor'themar was a Farstrider, Sylvanas was a Farstrider. Those aren't the roles they fulfill now and that's the issue, the Ranger themes are backdrop at best, a carry over they are not interested to use.

Are you really going to tell me that the Farstriders get the same amount of relevance than Blood Knights? Than the Sunreavers, the Magisters have gotten? The freaking Reliquary?

I don't feel they suffer from screen time any more than one specific "class" if that's what you mean. There's 12 classes in WoW, none of which are "Ranger". Closest thing to a ranger would be a Marksmanship hunter, so really 1/36th of player classes would really identify with a "ranger" fantasy.

I think the bigger problem is trying to identify with a singular unit type from a 23 year old RTS game. Whether you think they've gotten adequate representation or not, they are canonically one third of the Blood Elven Military, Haulduron and Lor'themar are still both rangers, even if Lor'themar is also Regent Lord now.

11/14/2018 09:18 PMPosted by Talendrion

The only relevant things we have seen Farstriders do is being soldiers and Halduron standing outside of Zul'aman in Cata and his participation on the Unseen Path, which are hilariously the same appearances the Silver Covenant has made.

Also did you really claim that the PvP hunter armor being red is Farstrider lore? What does that make the blue one then lol?

IMO Since the Ghostlands, every expansion dedicates less and less focus to the Ranger themes. What was the last time a Ranger character was even a little bit relevant besides Halduron? Elsia showed up on MoP and that was it, Orestes came back for Legion and then died.

I wouldn't call a Blood Elven color-ed set 'lore', but it certainly is an homage to the class. To say otherwise is stupid. Does it have to be called Farstrider Mail Set #14 and have flavor text for you to associate it with the class?

11/14/2018 09:18 PMPosted by Talendrion

Like come on, it really feels like you are arguing against me out of principle for "defending" Blood Elves rather than actually understanding my opinion.

The entire argument for High Elves hinges on downplaying and attacking the Blood Elves, their story, their presence, etc, so yes, you're damn right I'm defending them, especially when High Elf fans are trying to marginalize any sliver of space they feel they could steal or stuff their fantasy into.

11/14/2018 09:49 PMPosted by Orctang
Very funny everyone I know in game wants them and they never post online.

Even if you knew 1,000 people who shared this exact sentiment, it would be a minority of the playerbase. Also, unvoiced opinions don't get to be surprised when things they don't like happen.
Holy Dreck! Will this thread ever die?

High Elves will never be playable until Blizz feels they are profitable enough to warrant inclusion. Lore won't matter. Low population numbers won't matter. And people spamming the threads won't matter.

All of these for and against threads are pointless spam.
11/14/2018 09:18 PMPosted by Talendrion

I'm saying the Ranger themes are underutilized, and the pretend otherwise is just being oblivious.

Elves fantasy in War2 was based around its rangers, and now it's like the 3 or fourth relevant theme they have going on, and it's pretty disingenuous to say they are just as relevant as the others because they get paid lip service. What was once the core of their appeal is not the least relevant of all they have going for them.

Lor'themar was a Farstrider, Sylvanas was a Farstrider. Those aren't the roles they fulfill now and that's the issue, the Ranger themes are backdrop at best, a carry over they are not interested to use.

Are you really going to tell me that the Farstriders get the same amount of relevance than Blood Knights? Than the Sunreavers, the Magisters have gotten? The freaking Reliquary?

I don't feel they suffer from screen time any more than one specific "class" if that's what you mean. There's 12 classes in WoW, none of which are "Ranger". Closest thing to a ranger would be a Marksmanship hunter, so really 1/36th of player classes would really identify with a "ranger" fantasy.

I think the bigger problem is trying to identify with a singular unit type from a 23 year old RTS game. Whether you think they've gotten adequate representation or not, they are canonically one third of the Blood Elven Military, Halduron and Lor'themar are still both rangers, even if Lor'themar is also Regent Lord now


They were THE iconic "class" so if you are happy they are third banana with barely any meaningful representation, less so than a profession at this point, I guess we have different levels of investment on the Ranger fantasy.

Also your implication that each class spec combo should be equally represented is ridiculous; each race has their iconic roles, my whole point is that Ranger is far to be iconic or relevant on current BE lore. They are the third less relevant military branch, when the Ranger General used to be THE military leader. Halduron now plays third fiddle to Liadrin and Lor'themar. It might not bother you but it bothers me.

11/14/2018 09:18 PMPosted by Talendrion
The only relevant things we have seen Farstriders do is being soldiers and Halduron standing outside of Zul'aman in Cata and his participation on the Unseen Path, which are hilariously the same appearances the Silver Covenant has made.

Also did you really claim that the PvP hunter armor being red is Farstrider lore? What does that make the blue one then lol?

IMO Since the Ghostlands, every expansion dedicates less and less focus to the Ranger themes. What was the last time a Ranger character was even a little bit relevant besides Halduron? Elsia showed up on MoP and that was it, Orestes came back for Legion and then died.

I wouldn't call a Blood Elven color-ed set 'lore', but it certainly is an homage to the class. To say otherwise is stupid. Does it have to be called Farstrider Mail Set #14 and have flavor text for you to associate it with the class?


A "homage" to the class, what an embarrassment of riches. Again, then what is the alliance blue set, and homage to the Silver Covenant?

11/14/2018 09:18 PMPosted by Talendrion

Like come on, it really feels like you are arguing against me out of principle for "defending" Blood Elves rather than actually understanding my opinion.

The entire argument for High Elves hinges on downplaying and attacking the Blood Elves, their story, their presence, etc, so yes, you're damn right I'm defending them, especially when High Elf fans are trying to marginalize any sliver of space they feel they could steal or stuff their fantasy into.


And this is your mistake, thinking this opinion has anything to do with High Elves. Like you do understand that I like Blood Elves, right? That I literally started this point by saying "My only issue with BE lore is..." You are so wrapped on your "us versus them" mentality you think I am attacking your side, when I don't "have a side" I don't argue for High Elves because I dislike Blood Elves, I argue for them because I like elves and I want more.

You are misconstruing my criticism for an aspect of BE lore as an underlying High Elf agenda, which is not so my thing, and it's REALLY a bummer that because I support High Elves been playable my interest in Blood Elves is treated as suspect because apparently, we have to like one or the other. That's stupid because I like both.

Do I think that playable High Elves could lean more heavily on Ranger themes? YES, but guess what? That's because I never have felt that Blood Elves have lived up to what the Ranger themes were set up to be, not the other way around.
11/14/2018 10:34 PMPosted by Lydon
Even if you knew 1,000 people who shared this exact sentiment, it would be a minority of the playerbase. Also, unvoiced opinions don't get to be surprised when things they don't like happen.
Let's face it you are making up numbers to say it is the minority... Unless you have source you are just making stuff up.
11/14/2018 11:09 PMPosted by Romanna
Holy Dreck! Will this thread ever die?

High Elves will never be playable until Blizz feels they are profitable enough to warrant inclusion. Lore won't matter. Low population numbers won't matter. And people spamming the threads won't matter.

All of these for and against threads are pointless spam.


And yet you think anything you might say 14 years after they started is going to change anything? You don't fight fire with fire, and you don't answer futility with futility.
This thread is fun.
11/11/2018 01:57 PMPosted by Alainel
...but the Mag'har orcs come from an alternate universe. Why couldn't High Elves come from an alternate universe?

well its only a handfull of highelves left it wouldbe ironic if all of a sudden there was a whole !@#$in capital full of them, but its time to kill this thread the game do not need anymore elves
11/15/2018 02:46 AMPosted by Kittyjj

well its only a handfull of highelves left it wouldbe ironic if all of a sudden there was a whole !@#$in capital full of them, but its time to kill this thread the game do not need anymore elves


There were enough Darkspear to fit a couple of boats in Warcraft 3.
11/14/2018 11:09 PMPosted by Romanna
Holy Dreck! Will this thread ever die?

High Elves will never be playable until Blizz feels they are profitable enough to warrant inclusion. Lore won't matter. Low population numbers won't matter. And people spamming the threads won't matter.

All of these for and against threads are pointless spam.


It's one thread for and one thread against. I don't see the spam.
11/15/2018 05:47 AMPosted by Starlagosa


It's one thread for and one thread against. I don't see the spam.


There is no such thing as "for" and "against".

There is only a request, and Blizzard's response to that request. The rest is all pointless drivel, because as we've all seen, Blizzard will do what Blizzard wants and will make it happen regardless of any prior context.

*laughs in Maghar*

They outright have said they operate on the rule of cool, and as long as 10% of the population finds something as trivial to gameplay as a race cool, it's worth it.
11/14/2018 09:49 PMPosted by Orctang
11/13/2018 08:03 PMPosted by Lydon
A very vocal minority wants them.
Very funny everyone I know in game wants them and they never post online.


Who is "everyone"? Be more specific please.

I am waiting.

"Everyone" I know doesnt even know high elves exist.
*Slips into thread.*
Nice name, OP. :)
*Slips out of thread.*
11/15/2018 05:59 AMPosted by Crøwley
11/14/2018 09:49 PMPosted by Orctang
...Very funny everyone I know in game wants them and they never post online.


Who is "everyone"? Be more specific please.

I am waiting.

"Everyone" I know doesnt even know high elves exist.


There is a definite vibe of being selfcentered in that group.
11/14/2018 09:49 PMPosted by Orctang
Very funny everyone I know in game wants them and they never post online.


Ok, we'll tack on another 15-20 people to the less than 100 people on the forums who want them. Keep it up, you might reach 1% soon!
11/15/2018 07:21 AMPosted by Starlagosa
11/15/2018 05:59 AMPosted by Crøwley
...

Who is "everyone"? Be more specific please.

I am waiting.

"Everyone" I know doesnt even know high elves exist.


There is a definite vibe of being selfcentered in that group.


More than a vibe. More like screaming from the rooftops.

11/15/2018 07:33 AMPosted by Capncavebass
11/14/2018 09:49 PMPosted by Orctang
Very funny everyone I know in game wants them and they never post online.


Ok, we'll tack on another 15-20 people to the less than 100 people on the forums who want them. Keep it up, you might reach 1% soon!


Wow, ur very generous, 1% lol.

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