Why High Elves Don't Work: A Primer (Revisit)

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11/11/2018 02:10 PMPosted by Alamara
11/11/2018 02:04 PMPosted by Kinax
...???? didn’t you read the post
????

I wasted my time reading a huge wall of text, indeed, that basically tells that void elves can be pulled out of nowhere and that’s ok, but high elves can’t have anything done to them that makes them “different enough”.

They really can't. There's a reason why they altered the Void elves to look so drastically different from Blood elves, and ignored the fact that there's High Elves on the Alliance that could've taken their place. This choice was clearly intentionally.

I think the best chance the Alliance has at getting High elves is through Void elf customization, and that's it. Otherwise you're essentially giving the Alliance the Blood Elf race, which isn't very fair to the Horde, because they've become one of the most iconic, and popular races on the faction, and Blizzard knows that.
I guess the question I'll posit to this minority so fervent about High Elves is this:
"What are you looking for from a High Elf that you cannot currently get with a Void Elf?"

High Elves were never a playable separate faction in any of the Warcraft RTS games, never part of the current Alliance, and have no unique culture or lore to draw distinction from, and only two notable heroes, one of which already represents Void Elves. What is it you're really seeking to gain when you say you want to play a High Elf?

I think everyone really wants to know, because all it comes off as is that you want blonde hair, blue eyed elves.

My vote would be to add blue eyes to Blood elves and be done with it. A lot less work than adding racials, heritage armor, class options, etc. Ion's "colored contacts" comment comes to mind.
11/11/2018 02:43 PMPosted by Lydon
[quote]
I just wanted to show that your huge waste of letters can be debunked with a simple fact. That Blizzard can pull lore out of its !@# when it suits their needs.

And I’m posting this as a void elf because I can’t do it as a high elf, or else I would. I’m doing the best I can with what I got. Doesn’t mean I’m happy.

Saying "anything can happen" counts as debunking or is all you're falling on to support a claim of High Elves? Ok then. Add Ethereals and Naga and Harpies for Horde! Come on, you don't think it can happen? Blizz can pull anything out of their butt! It totally works!

The post is not about what Blizzard CAN do. They can obviously do anything they want. The post is about why they won't do it.

So, asspulled void elves living in outer space or time-displaced orcs from another dimension are fine to you, but giving high elves a storyline in which they reunite in a new land and try to start anew is too much to ask for?
11/11/2018 02:56 PMPosted by Lydon
"What are you looking for from a High Elf that you cannot currently get with a Void Elf?"


The lore of the high elves that never left the Alliance of Lordaeron when Quelthalas pulled itself from it, the high elves that have been apart of the current Alliance since vanilla, the returning high elves from the expedition beyond the dark portal that rejoined and only worked with Alliance in BC, the Silver Covenent high elves that have been pro-Alliance anti-Horde and Blood Elves since Wrath and represented them in the Argent Tournament and fought on the Alliance opposing the Sunreavers in Pandaria, and all that are still working with the Alliance in BFA. Also high elf paladins.
11/11/2018 02:43 PMPosted by Lydon
...
Saying "anything can happen" counts as debunking or is all you're falling on to support a claim of High Elves? Ok then. Add Ethereals and Naga and Harpies for Horde! Come on, you don't think it can happen? Blizz can pull anything out of their butt! It totally works!

The post is not about what Blizzard CAN do. They can obviously do anything they want. The post is about why they won't do it.

So, asspulled void elves living in outer space or time-displaced orcs from another dimension are fine to you, but giving high elves a storyline in which they reunite in a new land and try to start anew is too much to ask for?


Let me be clear, the "can they make a lore story I accept" is not the point. They'll write whatever to force-fit the piece. Draenei had a ret-con (to be what they are) and Blood Elves had a major story piece to bring them into those factions. Goblins (the most neutral of races) and Worgen (Gilnean isolationists who left the Alliance and walled themselves off) also both had major story pieces to bring them in.

The point is "here's why they won't".
-Blurs faction identity (much more than the whopping 2.5% of Pandaren players do).
-Fulfills a player fantasy that is already there (Blood Elves, and now Void Elves)
-Adds another less readable silhouette to the game (there's quite a bit of work done to keep silhouettes recognizable, hence why we still have lots of transmog restrictions)
-Takes away from story opportunity for already playable Blood/Void elves
-Doesn't add enough to faction diversity

I could go on, but how the Alliance saw Void Elf as anything but the answer to the High Elf question still eludes me.
11/11/2018 03:08 PMPosted by Lydon
The point is "here's why they won't".
-Blurs faction identity (much more than the whopping 2.5% of Pandaren players do).


Less than void elves which are literally just blood elves turned from the Horde and no more than the high elf npcs that existed on Alliance every expansion except WoD.

-Fulfills a player fantasy that is already there (Blood Elves, and now Void Elves)


Void elves don't fulfill any player fantasy high elves would, unless it is "have pointy ears", in which case every elf other than night elf should be deleted since they cover it.

-Adds another less readable silhouette to the game (there's quite a bit of work done to keep silhouettes recognizable, hence why we still have lots of transmog restrictions)


Void elves and blood elves already have literally the same silhouette with absolutely no variation so this is a non-issue. Plus, you could easily give the high elves a different stance or animations than blood elves to fix this.

-Takes away from story opportunity for already playable Blood/Void elves


High elf vs blood elf story has been in the game forever so it allows that to continue with players actually being able to be part of it. Plus, there shouldn't be any real story opportunities for the two dozen lorewise existing void elves. There's not enough of them for them to show up except as rare elite units.

-Doesn't add enough to faction diversity


Neither do another flavor of humans, lighter draenei, night elves with their ears curved a different direction, orcs just not green, or tauren with another type of horn, but we got them.

I could go on, but how the Alliance saw Void Elf as anything but the answer to the High Elf question still eludes me.


Because they're not.
11/11/2018 03:08 PMPosted by Lydon
-Blurs faction identity (much more than the whopping 2.5% of Pandaren players do).
While that is true, Nightborne and yes Pandaren have already done that. One more race wouldn't hurt.

11/11/2018 03:08 PMPosted by Lydon
-Fulfills a player fantasy that is already there (Blood Elves, and now Void Elves)
It obviously doesn't if a lot of people are asking for High Elves.

11/11/2018 03:08 PMPosted by Lydon
-Adds another less readable silhouette to the game (there's quite a bit of work done to keep silhouettes recognizable, hence why we still have lots of transmog restrictions)
If it's red it's dead.

11/11/2018 03:08 PMPosted by Lydon
-Takes away from story opportunity for already playable Blood/Void elves
Uh, no.

11/11/2018 03:08 PMPosted by Lydon
-Doesn't add enough to faction diversity
That's your opinion. People have been asking for this for over a decade give the people what they freaking want.
The only thing High Elves and Blood Elves have in common are biology.

History is a moot point. Forsaken history is just human history, so there's that.

The High Elves and Blood Elves have different values, ideals, leaders, organizations, allegiances, and more.

Pinning the entire argument on 'hurr durr blood elves are high elves' is being massively and disingenuously reductive.

Whole thing could have been pretty soundly addressed if Void Elves were made from remnants of Silver Covenant instead of Silvermoon rejects because it would have progressed the HIgh Elves while making them even more different than the Blood Elves but I guess Dark'han Drakir was just too important a pillar of the entire story to write that off.
[quote="207682808885"]
Because they're not.

They're the compromise you got. I'm sorry people don't like the answer, or refuse to look at the writing on the wall for what it is.

Going through each of my points and trying to say Void Elves already do X does not support a High Elven argument, it weakens it. Void Elves and Nightborne are unique among allied races in that they give each faction a flavor of the opposite faction's elf, but not quite. Other allied races are variations of races those factions already have.

The problem is you're asking for a minor, and worse, ANOTHER variation of a strictly, in the 2018 WoW time-frame, HORDE race. It simply won't happen. This backlash is only because Void Elves exist like a nail in the coffin to any future true High Elf race, and it's wigging everyone out.

There's no way they'd give Alliance two versions of a Horde race and deep down everybody knows this. At the end of the day, Blizzard sees that Void Elves are hugely, tremendously popular, beating out any other Allied race, and see that despite minor forum outcry, that they made the right choice.
11/11/2018 02:17 PMPosted by Kallistus
11/11/2018 02:09 PMPosted by Jawah
...https://wow.gamepedia.com/Allerian_Stronghold

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Silver_Covenant

And those are just the two easiest examples. GG. /Thread


Those are examples of traitors working with Dalaran, and refugees on a different planet. Neither are representative of the high elves as a people being part of the current alliance.

If Bob the human and his friends decide to work with the horde it doesn’t make humans the allies of the horde.


So, no matter that most of the remaining High Elves are members of the alliance, they aren't still part of the alliance...

How does this logic works?

Facts are simple: most of the remaining High Elves are on the alliance, with a part of them being neutral Kirin Tor. Like talk about reaching lol.
11/11/2018 03:27 PMPosted by Lydon
At the end of the day, Blizzard sees that Void Elves are hugely, tremendously popular, beating out any other Allied race
they even beat out a few of the original races, the only allied race to do so
11/11/2018 03:24 PMPosted by Dayon

Whole thing could have been pretty soundly addressed if Void Elves were made from remnants of Silver Covenant instead of Silvermoon rejects because it would have progressed the HIgh Elves while making them even more different than the Blood Elves but I guess Dark'han Drakir was just too important a pillar of the entire story to write that off.

This is what really baffled me. Why make them Blood Elven defectors? Why not just have Alleria take her knowledge to "all these leftover High Elves all over the place" and teach them and have that group take it too far and become Void Elves.

That said, Dar'khan Drathir was fairly important. He's the reason Silvermoon fell in the first place and we didn't laugh at Arthas from inside Ban'dinoriel instead of getting wiped out.
11/11/2018 03:31 PMPosted by Lydon
11/11/2018 03:24 PMPosted by Dayon

Whole thing could have been pretty soundly addressed if Void Elves were made from remnants of Silver Covenant instead of Silvermoon rejects because it would have progressed the HIgh Elves while making them even more different than the Blood Elves but I guess Dark'han Drakir was just too important a pillar of the entire story to write that off.

This is what really baffled me. Why make them Blood Elven defectors? Why not just have Alleria take her knowledge to "all these leftover High Elves all over the place" and teach them and have that group take it too far and become Void Elves.

That said, Dar'khan Drathir was fairly important. He's the reason Silvermoon fell in the first place and we didn't laugh at Arthas from inside Ban'dinoriel instead of getting wiped out.


Was he so important that the entire story had to hinge on him?
11/11/2018 03:31 PMPosted by Lydon
11/11/2018 03:24 PMPosted by Dayon

Whole thing could have been pretty soundly addressed if Void Elves were made from remnants of Silver Covenant instead of Silvermoon rejects because it would have progressed the HIgh Elves while making them even more different than the Blood Elves but I guess Dark'han Drakir was just too important a pillar of the entire story to write that off.

This is what really baffled me. Why make them Blood Elven defectors? Why not just have Alleria take her knowledge to "all these leftover High Elves all over the place" and teach them and have that group take it too far and become Void Elves.

That said, Dar'khan Drathir was fairly important. He's the reason Silvermoon fell in the first place and we didn't laugh at Arthas from inside Ban'dinoriel instead of getting wiped out.


So do you understand how Void Elves fail to be a compromise to people that wanted High Elves? We didn't even get the lore fantasy we wanted and have been asking, and thus, we will keep asking.

And I do really believe that if we had gotten VE made out of HE lore, a lot less people would still be salty. Starting with myself.
The problem is, everyone of your arguments go out the window when blizzard gave us void elves, because the void elf population is even smaller then the high elf one from a lore stand point, because its a subset of the high elves and exiles of the blood elves that became void elves. So we have void elves which are signifigently less population wise are a playable race, and the high elves which are greater in number then void elves, AND have a longer history with the alliance not.

There is literally no reason lore wise, why alliance dont have high elves. Personally i dont care about getting more elves and would rather get another brute race, but there really is no reason anymore other then blizzard does not want to. Thats it.

At this point just give void elves a two forms ability to go in and out of a void form, literally would solve all of the problems.
I don't think this needed to be reposted honestly.
11/11/2018 03:08 PMPosted by Lydon
-Blurs faction identity (much more than the whopping 2.5% of Pandaren players do).


The devs already solved that problem before it could start, by making character names appear in blue if they're on your faction and orange if they're on the opposite faction. If you see two elf players in front of you, one with an orange name above his head, and the other with a blue name, then it shouldn't take a genius to figure out which one is the high elf and which one is the blood elf.
11/11/2018 02:45 PMPosted by Nimblepaw
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Leave.. You are never getting your High elves.
Why wouldn't you want part of the community to get what they want? Is there a reason? I'd like to hear it.


Because they are already playable you have 2 races that use the same exact model. And it's annoying how people still do nothing but bug blizzard about it ogres should have been playable for a looooong time now but I'm not crying about it. I think people should appreciate the hard work they put in for us to play this game but instead all people can do is complain about the stuff they don't have. This High elf thing has gone on since Vanilla it hasn't happened but they still whine and beg. Give them a break. I know Void elves were a slap in the face but what's done is done.
11/11/2018 03:40 PMPosted by Khlorós
The problem is, everyone of your arguments go out the window when blizzard gave us void elves, because the void elf population is even smaller then the high elf one from a lore stand point, because its a subset of the high elves and exiles of the blood elves that became void elves. So we have void elves which are signifigently less population wise are a playable race, and the high elves which are greater in number then void elves, AND have a longer history with the alliance not.

There is literally no reason lore wise, why alliance dont have high elves. Personally i dont care about getting more elves and would rather get another brute race, but there really is no reason anymore other then blizzard does not want to. Thats it.

At this point just give void elves a two forms ability to go in and out of a void form, literally would solve all of the problems.

I go over this in point 7, which by your post I can tell you didn't read at least to even that point.

As I've said before, lore is not really a barrier to entry. Blizzard has shown with multiple races (including your own) that they'll bend lore or outright create it to make something happen.

It's not about population, and it's not about lore.

It's that Void Elves are the compromise. You don't get to take Void Elves and then use them as a stepping stone to hop to High Elves. That's not how this works.

Void Elves where the present your parents could afford that you got when you asked for the High Elf for Christmas that was too expensive.
11/11/2018 03:51 PMPosted by Lydon
It's that Void Elves are the compromise. You don't get to take Void Elves and then use them as a stepping stone to hop to High Elves. That's not how this works.
Compromises involve negotiating tho.

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