Vengeance DPS Easy Mode

Demon Hunter
I wish Icy Veins had this priority list in their Easy Mode section for Vengeance Demon Hunters, would have saved me a lot of time:

1. Spirit Bomb with more than 3 souls
2. Soul Cleave with 0 souls
3. Fracture with less than 4 souls
4. Immolation Aura with less than 5 souls

It really took me a while to realize that Pain management does not matter nearly as much as Soul management. In dungeons you can be capped on Pain all day and still do near sim level DPS.

So, an opening rotation on a trash pack just looks like this:
1. Sigil of Flame
2. Infernal Strike
3. Infernal Strike

Then, following the above priority list:
4. Fracture
5. Fracture
6. Immolation Aura
7. Spirit Bomb
8. Soul Cleave
9. Soul Cleave (if still got enough Pain)

At this point you have a couple of global cooldowns for utility, and then back to step 4.

Unless something weird is going on, this Priority is near optimal, it seems, and is a lot less complicated than anything based on Pain management. I realize that you will need more than this to push high level keys, but for like 95% of people tanking dungeons, that's all you need.
I wouldn't use all ur strikes and sigil in ur opener. Keeping flame rolling on targets is better than blow it all at once.

Especially since you usually have to fill a global with the CD on fracture and that's when you strike/sigil.
Wow, you are wrong in so many different ways, but its quite clear you think you have it figured out.

People who are coming here looking for advice - please disregard what he is saying
Why would you pop Immolation Aura when you already have 4 souls out from 2x Fracture? o.O

This doesn't even follow your own priority order.

Also, 3x Sigil of Flame is a no.
11/12/2018 07:05 AMPosted by Wyv
So, an opening rotation on a trash pack just looks like this:
1. Sigil of Flame
2. Infernal Strike
3. Infernal Strike
SoF dot stacks up to 2, so putting 3 applications is a loss of a potential stack.

11/12/2018 07:05 AMPosted by Wyv
Then, following the above priority list:
4. Fracture
5. Fracture
6. Immolation Aura
7. Spirit Bomb
8. Soul Cleave
9. Soul Cleave (if still got enough Pain)
Cooldowns only lose DPS if they remain off cooldown (or at max stacks). It's better to Fracture -> Immo Aura -> Fracture. Fracture's stacks won't get back up to 2 by the time your second Fracture GCD comes along, and it's better to get Immo Aura off cooldown when there's no downside to doing so.

11/12/2018 04:53 PMPosted by Triggurs
Why would you pop Immolation Aura when you already have 4 souls out from 2x Fracture? o.O

This doesn't even follow your own priority order.
You don't want to waste GCDs. Why Spirit Bomb at 4 souls when you could Spirit Bomb at 5? The most important thing is that you don't waste souls, not that you Spirit Bomb immediately upon getting 4 souls.

If you have 4 souls and can Immo Aura to get to 5, go for it. But if your 2nd Fracture charge is coming up and you have 4 souls, you should Spirit Bomb so that you can use Fracture freely. The whole "Spirit Bomb at 4" mantra is because it's horrible wasting Fracture recharge time and it's the lesser of 2 evils to Spirit Bomb early (for lesser soul consumption) than to let Fracture sit on 2 charges.

Remember that Icy Veins is a guide for beginner and intermediate players. The priority list it gives is pretty good, but not perfect.
SoF dot stacks up to 2, so putting 3 applications is a loss of a potential stack.


Sorta. It doesn't stack, it rolls, and weirdly at that. SoF normally ticks 3 times (excluding the initial burst). Applying a second SoF to the target rolls 100% of the new one into a new combined DoT that ticks 4 times, with each tick doing 1/3rd of the total combined amount of the new SoF and the remaining DoT damage from the initial SoF. This means it deals more than double damage.

For example, completely naked, SoF ticks 3 times for 158 damage, total of 474. If I land two at once, it ticks 4 times for 316 damage, for a total of 1264, 267% of the damage of 1 SoF. If I land one, then wait a tick, then land another, I get 1 tick at 158 damage, then 4 ticks at 264 damage. The first SoF had 474 - 158 = 316 damage remaining, so the sum of the new SoF and the remaining of the first one is 474 + 316 = 790. 790 / 3 = 263.3, and then ticks 4 times for a total between the two sigils of 1210. So landing two sigils at once is actually higher DPS than applying an SoF and then reapplying another a tick or two later.

As for applying 3 at once, you get 4 ticks at 368 damage, for a total of 1472. So while the first sigil added 474 damage, and the second added 790, the third only added 208, which is about 44% of a single SoF's worth of damage. If you spread them out instead, applying two simultaneously and then the 3rd on the final tick, you get a total of 1792 damage (3 ticks of 316 and 4 ticks of 211), compared to the 1264 + 474 = 1738 damage you'd get by using two at once and then another once it expires.

TLDR: cast them simultaneously for the maximum DPS, but never cast more than 2 at the same time. For absolute maximum DPS, land the third between the 2nd-to-last and the last tick of the combined 2. For practical purposes, though, stack it up to twice and not 3 times.
11/12/2018 05:46 PMPosted by Corpsenine
11/12/2018 07:05 AMPosted by Wyv
So, an opening rotation on a trash pack just looks like this:
1. Sigil of Flame
2. Infernal Strike
3. Infernal Strike
SoF dot stacks up to 2, so putting 3 applications is a loss of a potential stack.

11/12/2018 07:05 AMPosted by Wyv
Then, following the above priority list:
4. Fracture
5. Fracture
6. Immolation Aura
7. Spirit Bomb
8. Soul Cleave
9. Soul Cleave (if still got enough Pain)
Cooldowns only lose DPS if they remain off cooldown (or at max stacks). It's better to Fracture -> Immo Aura -> Fracture. Fracture's stacks won't get back up to 2 by the time your second Fracture GCD comes along, and it's better to get Immo Aura off cooldown when there's no downside to doing so.

11/12/2018 04:53 PMPosted by Triggurs
Why would you pop Immolation Aura when you already have 4 souls out from 2x Fracture? o.O

This doesn't even follow your own priority order.
You don't want to waste GCDs. Why Spirit Bomb at 4 souls when you could Spirit Bomb at 5? The most important thing is that you don't waste souls, not that you Spirit Bomb immediately upon getting 4 souls.

If you have 4 souls and can Immo Aura to get to 5, go for it. But if your 2nd Fracture charge is coming up and you have 4 souls, you should Spirit Bomb so that you can use Fracture freely. The whole "Spirit Bomb at 4" mantra is because it's horrible wasting Fracture recharge time and it's the lesser of 2 evils to Spirit Bomb early (for lesser soul consumption) than to let Fracture sit on 2 charges.

Remember that Icy Veins is a guide for beginner and intermediate players. The priority list it gives is pretty good, but not perfect.


Timing spirit bombs with incoming damage > dps, that is if you want to survive on high keys.
11/14/2018 12:37 AMPosted by Vengeta
Timing spirit bombs with incoming damage > dps, that is if you want to survive on high keys.


Depends on the damage profile, tbh. Fracture by default has a 4.5s CD, but most DHs are running 20-25% haste at this point, dropping that closer to 3.5s. That lets you drop a Spirit Bomb every 7 seconds, or even more often if you are tanking multiple adds and get an Essence Sever proc or Immo is off CD (since it'll often fund an entire Bomb single-handedly via Fallout). Souls heals based on damage taken in the last 5 seconds regardless of haste, so you're already looking at a pretty low amount of downtime in terms of the damage that isn't covered by souls in that rotation.

And tbh, for most trash packs in M+, the damage intake isn't as spiky as it would be on, say, Fetid or something. You're pretty much either fine, or getting trucked the entire time, or kiting. The only time it really becomes relevant is when you first start on a pack or transition back into tanking from kiting, where blowing Fracture->Fracture->Bomb is an attractive option, but takes only ~3.5s and thus includes ~1.5s of time where you weren't yet taking damage.

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