Why was it "easy" for Nost, but hard for Bliz

Classic Discussion
11/13/2018 05:43 PMPosted by Parthena
11/13/2018 05:25 PMPosted by Goró
During Blizzcon we were told how challenging (at least that's how it came off) it was for Blizzard to create a working version of Classic... but Nostalrius, with no ties to Blizzard, was able to make a relatively bug free version of Vanilla?


Please quit pretending that Nostalrius created their server. The code used for Nostalrius has been developed over YEARS by many people. The devs at Nostalrius started with code that already worked and then tailored it for their needs and fixed more bugs.


Bro, I wasn't pretending !@#$. That's what I have to go off of. I had no idea they didn't make it themselves. *shrug*
11/13/2018 05:41 PMPosted by Modelcitizen
11/13/2018 05:38 PMPosted by Goró
...

But ironically the community that demanded Vanilla (the ones they're catering to) want that mediocre version.


If by mediocre you mean the original game, then absolutely.

Kind of stupid to request the ORIGINAL game back, but then ask for it not to be the ORIGINAL game.


Yup, when I said mediocre I was using his words and I was talking about Vanilla. Figured that would be implied after reading comments.
11/13/2018 05:58 PMPosted by Xanthak
Everything is dictated by the suits and money.

If the suits thought that by adding in sharding, transmog, dual spec, and flying to Classic, they could double the profit from Wow, you bet that Classic will have those things.

Blizzard isn't doing this only because they love the game.

Them re-mastering WC3 and making it even easier because they felt it was not accessible enough made me vomit.

If they truly were doing all this for the love of their games, they wouldn't touch any of them.

The only reason why Starcraft:Remastered was untouched was because there was still a huge contingent in Korea playing it. At one point it was the #2 sport there.

I should have been more specific above. Blizzard isn't funding classic for love of the game, but at the very least a portion of the people working on it are doing so because they love it. Hopefully, they can successfully argue to the suits that things like sharding will lose money.
Totally different ideaology behind how they are offering the game.

The bigger question is how did Nost buy servers with their own money and didn't need sharding to make it work? Blizzard somehow can't handle this...............
11/13/2018 05:31 PMPosted by Cybertilded
11/13/2018 05:31 PMPosted by Savax
Doing stuff the right way probably takes longer. Blizzard won't cut any corners and accept mediocre results.


Lets wait and see.


Then how did we end up with BfA?
11/13/2018 06:13 PMPosted by Jerroc
Then how did we end up with BfA?


By listening only to the people that agreed with their pruning of the game and its classes in WoD, Legion and BFA Alpha / BETA while totally ignoring the massive majority that venomously said PLEASE DON'T RUIN MY GAME!
11/13/2018 05:33 PMPosted by Xukon
No. You admit

11/13/2018 05:25 PMPosted by Goró
I know there was "a lot" of issues


The reason Blizzard is putting so much work into it is to make a game without those issues. The 16 year old data wasn't meant to run on what they have now. They've replaced the hardware and completely and totally changed battle.net.

Could they put up a semi-functional server like a bunch pirates did in minimal time? Sure!

Would it probably be better than theirs? Almost certainly.

Would it be professional quality and meet a minimum bar of acceptability? Almost certainly not.

So their professionals in running online games decided the most cost effective measure for stability and security was to make the game in the modern client, which takes time to port in and make sure it is accurate to classic.

Lets focus more on getting them to take back or fix their terrible loot trading system instead of asking silly questions.


Yeah, hardware is too fast nowadays, is that your argument?

These old graphics don't run well on on new hardware because it is faster?

Then why can I run easily 16 games of diablo 2 on a single computer when back when it was release I was doing good to run 2 or 3? The faster hardware didn't make it less, it made it more . . .

Diablo 2 is the same, only the hardware is better.
11/13/2018 06:06 PMPosted by Bigsly1DD123
Totally different ideaology behind how they are offering the game.

The bigger question is how did Nost buy servers with their own money and didn't need sharding to make it work? Blizzard somehow can't handle this...............


Blizzard uses cloud services for wow.
A totally different setup then one server per realm.
11/13/2018 05:25 PMPosted by Goró
During Blizzcon we were told how challenging (at least that's how it came off) it was for Blizzard to create a working version of Classic... but Nostalrius, with no ties to Blizzard, was able to make a relatively bug free version of Vanilla? When I say "bug free" I know there was "a lot" of issues, but nothing an entire team at Blizzard couldn't fix. Wouldn't it be less work?

It wasn't easy for Nost.

Nost was built on an open-source server project that took YEARS to build and perfect. That tiny fact seems to be something that a lot of private server advocates tend to ignore.

All your little private servers that are popping up now, are using that same stuff that took other programmers YEARS of work to put out.
No. You admit

<span class="truncated">...</span>

The reason Blizzard is putting so much work into it is to make a game without those issues. The 16 year old data wasn't meant to run on what they have now. They've replaced the hardware and completely and totally changed battle.net.

Could they put up a semi-functional server like a bunch pirates did in minimal time? Sure!

Would it probably be better than theirs? Almost certainly.

Would it be professional quality and meet a minimum bar of acceptability? Almost certainly not.

So their professionals in running online games decided the most cost effective measure for stability and security was to make the game in the modern client, which takes time to port in and make sure it is accurate to classic.

Lets focus more on getting them to take back or fix their terrible loot trading system instead of asking silly questions.


Yeah, hardware is too fast nowadays, is that your argument?

These old graphics don't run well on on new hardware because it is faster?

Then why can I run easily 16 games of diablo 2 on a single computer when back when it was release I was doing good to run 2 or 3? The faster hardware didn't make it less, it made it more . . .

Diablo 2 is the same, only the hardware is better.


Not even remotely.

You're trying to make my argument way too simple. Like one of my key points is we don't know what all has changed or what exactly needed to be done to best run it today.

Also you're trying to compare your client side experience to a server side experience.

So what I know is battle.net has totally changed they now use the bnet launcher. We also know that the servers were upgraded and the old ones sold in an auction. So we know the hardware is completely differen't what we don't know is how much the software the servers run on has changed.

Software for distribution, or the client we play is made to run on as wide a spectrum of hardware as possible. The server side is made to run on one set of hardware. You are literally making an apples or oranges comparison with your client side software experience to a custom enterprise software experience. Don't do that.
11/13/2018 05:31 PMPosted by Savax
Doing stuff the right way probably takes longer. Blizzard won't cut any corners and accept mediocre results.


Did you SEE the smoldering piece of garbage they called a demo? Were we playing the same game?
11/13/2018 08:54 PMPosted by Mandosz
Did you SEE the smoldering piece of garbage they called a demo? Were we playing the same game?

The demo was shown way, way too early. There's leftover code for sure - and I'm just hoping they can iron everything out before the release.
11/13/2018 06:06 PMPosted by Bigsly1DD123
Totally different ideaology behind how they are offering the game.

The bigger question is how did Nost buy servers with their own money and didn't need sharding to make it work? Blizzard somehow can't handle this...............

It's well known that the people running Nost were getting money from chinese gold farmers
11/13/2018 08:58 PMPosted by Espur
11/13/2018 08:54 PMPosted by Mandosz
Did you SEE the smoldering piece of garbage they called a demo? Were we playing the same game?

The demo was shown way, way too early. There's leftover code for sure - and I'm just hoping they can iron everything out before the release.


What I'm wondering, is how far behind the demo is, usually it's not current with what they are running live in office.

But if the demo was representative of what is their most up to date build, I wouldn't be surprised if it was delayed.
11/13/2018 08:58 PMPosted by Espur
11/13/2018 08:54 PMPosted by Mandosz
Did you SEE the smoldering piece of garbage they called a demo? Were we playing the same game?

The demo was shown way, way too early. There's leftover code for sure - and I'm just hoping they can iron everything out before the release.


they've had 2.5 Years worth of work, Nostalrius Shutdown and petition was april/may~ 2016. Blizzard had a meeting with Nost devs and played on a showcase realm that Nost staff brought for them to experience. Almost certainly they handed everything they had over to Blizzard at that point so that Blizzard had as many resources as possible to recreate Classic.

They announced Classic last Blizzcon, a full year ago.

This demo is what we got... after 2.5 years of prep time, atleast 1 full year of it was a focused effort instead of planning phases.

Now they say "Summer 2019".

After 2.5 years, if this is all they have to show... no, it wont be ready, it wont even be close to acceptable by summer 2019, not unless they quadruple their staff and work overtime.
Well everyone is different is the answer to it, blizzard gave people an incomplete expansion like wod even though it was suppose to be more then it was.

We don't know what goes on because secrets are behind doors, and wod designers were probably slacking off is probably why it came out incomplete.

A lot of the stuff that was in the demo seemed lazy but I don't even know why someone got a green item of the tiger with crit and agility instead of agility and strength.
Something as simple like that probably shouldn't of been in there.

11/13/2018 05:31 PMPosted by Savax
Doing stuff the right way probably takes longer. Blizzard won't cut any corners and accept mediocre results.

Well currently their philosophy is to cut corners to get mediocre results.

11/13/2018 05:58 PMPosted by Xanthak
Them re-mastering WC3 and making it even easier because they felt it was not accessible enough made me vomit.

Yeah I kinda think wc3 reforged seemed like there wasn't truly love for it, it was more about profit.
11/13/2018 09:03 PMPosted by Mandosz
11/13/2018 08:58 PMPosted by Espur
...
The demo was shown way, way too early. There's leftover code for sure - and I'm just hoping they can iron everything out before the release.


they've had 2.5 Years worth of work, Nostalrius Shutdown and petition was april/may~ 2016. Blizzard had a meeting with Nost devs and played on a showcase realm that Nost staff brought for them to experience. Almost certainly they handed everything they had over to Blizzard at that point so that Blizzard had as many resources as possible to recreate Classic.

They announced Classic last Blizzcon, a full year ago.

This demo is what we got... after 2.5 years of prep time, atleast 1 full year of it was a focused effort instead of planning phases.

Now they say "Summer 2019".

After 2.5 years, if this is all they have to show... no, it wont be ready, it wont even be close to acceptable by summer 2019, not unless they quadruple their staff and work overtime.


This is an example of a bad post. They announced classic a year ago and still had job postings up for the project until Janurary.

Yet you seem to be trying to set a time frame well before it could reasonably thought they were planning this project.
11/13/2018 05:25 PMPosted by Goró
During Blizzcon we were told how challenging (at least that's how it came off) it was for Blizzard to create a working version of Classic... but Nostalrius, with no ties to Blizzard, was able to make a relatively bug free version of Vanilla? When I say "bug free" I know there was "a lot" of issues, but nothing an entire team at Blizzard couldn't fix. Wouldn't it be less work?


like Velossena said, but probably because no one wants to go through such old source codes and update them the make them more modern and handle the B-tag so they decided to paste it in their 7.3.5 framework and work backwards (the hard way).

@Xukon they already stated they where doing it before a year ago, maybe 2.5 years, or 1.5 years, but not just 1 year ago. Think it was more of a, can we get the code before anything else and toke them a long time.
Remember their source code is going to have all the values still saved unlike nost where they put in rough estimates of the values.
11/13/2018 05:38 PMPosted by Goró
11/13/2018 05:31 PMPosted by Savax
Doing stuff the right way probably takes longer. Blizzard won't cut any corners and accept mediocre results.


But ironically the community that demanded Vanilla (the ones they're catering to) want that mediocre version.


They think they do, but they don’t.
The 90/10 problem (sometimes the 80/20 problem).

It takes 90% of the time to get the last 10% right.

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