The biggest issue with BFA

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10/12/2018 05:28 PMPosted by Metrohaha
What do you find has changed considerable since Legion?


Shaman mobility with the removal of Gust of Wind is a huge change for me.
10/12/2018 05:17 PMPosted by Taironn
DUDE! These MVPs are hilarious. I dont think a Blizzard employee could have made a more ridiculous comment. lol I couldnt make BFA sound that good if you paid me.

Yes, my favourite thing is there is nothing new! HOORAY!

lol Greens...

MVPs are not blizzard employees....
I give BFA 6.5/10.

I enjoyed Island expeditions and Warfronts well enough, Already sick and bored of Azerite, Not a fan of how the loot is being handled these days, Dungeons were kinda a bore, Didn't like Warmode too much(Though to be fair, i wasn't really much a fan of pvp in general to begin with, so it's not the fault of the "new feature" here.), Combat is a bit slow (though not as slow people like to say it is), Allied races are a serious mixed bag, Heritage armor's a poor incentive to level up, World quests are still quick and easy to do, The story in my opinion kinda sucks, and the world they created is flat enough to traverse easily, but also have hills and mountains to glide off of. And of coarse it looks pretty, filled with 10 minutes worth of cutscenes where probably where 75% of the budget went.

It's okay, it's just a filler game to pass the time, Much like an Ubisoft game these days. On the one hand, it's capable to engage, interest, and even dare i say, entertain people. On the other, it's also created by the people responsible of Lootboxes the video ga-- i mean Overwatch. After WoD, My expectations for this game are low, It's just the same old dog, performing the same old flip trick we seen the last 10 years ago, this time sporting with a morally grey colored "faction pride, theirs totally no old god surprise" sweater.
10/12/2018 05:58 PMPosted by Jelybeantoes
Rewards for BfA world quests are demonstrably less valuable, even than the post-nerf Legion quests.

I certainly don't feel this way. One thing missing is BLP from emissaries, but otherwise AP is significantly more valuable this expansion than it was last expansion and world quests remain the best way to get them daily.
I don't know what you mean by "post-nerf" though. Guess I missed something there. Truth be told, I'm not one for world content.

You aren't aware that in the pre-patch Legion content was nerfed to reduce gold rewards by a factor of 4? How long was it since you had done those, or did you stop after getting your rep finished?

World quests in the Broken Isles gave a variety of rewards. You could choose AP, order resources, ~50-90 gold for a non-elite quest ~200 gold for elite ones, sometimes gear suitable for vending or disenchant. It felt good to pop those AP tokens and make progress toward gaining new traits.

Emissaries were very rewarding. There were always multiple rewards in emissaries. There was also a chance at a legendary.

A lot of people hated paragon boxes. Those were people who were doing it wrong. Paragon boxes also gave gold, order resources, AP, and a chance at a mount or toy. People who farmed paragon boxes by doing world quests were doing it horribly wrong. The only sane way to do it was to put alts on duty to run rep token missions. And the only way to keep that going was to do world quests to get order resources.

It's been what? Almost 2 years since you've done Legion world quests and you're trying to tell me and the many players who still do them that they're not rewarding?

10/12/2018 05:58 PMPosted by Jelybeantoes
Dungeons give less rewards and way less gear. Legion gave less gear than WoD, so the trend is toward it being most common to get nothing.

Okay, this is where I'm losing you. I have absolutely NO idea how you could say that with a straight face, ESPECIALLY what you said in comparison to WoD.
It makes absolutely zero sense, and makes me worry about the source of the comment.

People certainly have concerns about you.

You know Legion was the expansion that added M+ dungeons right?
Before that, you got absolutely zero progression level gear from the game.
Its also the expansion that added Titanforge, so that same gear could actually become BIS in the same stroke.

Progression is not everything and the only thing. How much do you play the game? Most content in the game is to keep people occupied and interested, not to cater to the tiny percentage of players that doesn't like any part of the game but progression content.

Heroic dungeons. You were likely to get a piece of gear during Legion. In BfA content you are unlikely to get a piece of gear. You got rewards for each boss you killed. And you could farm them. A lot of people did, because they were fun and worth doing. Who farms BfA heroic dungeons? Nobody? Why not?

They're not fun.

All that on top of a guaranteed weekly mythic raid quality item from doing a single dungeon to completion.

If anything, a fault of this expansion should be that it gives you TOO MUCH gear.

Yeah, you've said that a lot. Other people are getting too much gear they don't deserve. Cry me a river. I've always found mythic+ to be incredibly boring. Like, here's a really annoying dungeon you can brag you did. So what?

If you feel like you commonly "get nothing" then...
Well I'll leave it that. You and I have absolutely polar opposite views on the matter, and I think if you look at my character sheet you will understand why.

If you feel the need to deliberately misstate what I am saying in order to make a different point to deflect, then...

I know you don't care about people who don't raid and think that everybody and their grandmother and 8 year old twins should be spamming mythic+ dungeons with the clique they run them with on their mythic raid team for score.

Most people aren't mythic raiders. Most people are looking for something fun and interesting to do when they spend their entertainment dollars. None of what you have described is more rewarding in BfA than in comparable Legion content.

Even my raider friends are considering quitting because there's nothing to do after a mythic+ and their raid. My mythic shadow priest boyfriend envies the fact that I decided to farm old content for mounts and achieves. He had to respec to play.

What else did we have in Legion? Tons of appearances to work at. The first time ever druids were offered appearances that they could fight in. Everybody was working on appearances. It was definitely something to do that had a reward at the end.

I play guardian. I'm not rerolling.

10/13/2018 01:15 PMPosted by Jelybeantoes
Even my raider friends are considering quitting because there's nothing to do after a mythic+ and their raid.

Could be because the outside world does feel like it did in WoD - a collection of useless apexis dailies you don't need to do.

And of course even WoD had the conquest cap thing going for it - it was always fun to work on your PvP set in your down-time, or even the garrison/Legion class campaigns were extra content we don't have anymore.
10/12/2018 05:33 PMPosted by Metrohaha
but still feel like AP

It's not more valuable than leveling your Legion artifact weapon, sorry. Legion AW bonuses are far, far superior compared to Azerite bonuses.
10/12/2018 05:14 PMPosted by Metrohaha

I've been saying all this for a while now, but basically if you liked Legion you should like BFA. If you hated Legion, then its no surprise you don't like the current expansion.

I couldn't disagree with you more. BFA may have copied some aspects of Legion, but they watered all of it down or altered it or omitted features until all it does is make me miss Legion. Except they effectively BROKE Legion in the BFA Pre-Patch, so I don't even really have THAT anymore. On top of that, BFA does NOT offer lots of great things that Legion offered.

The art team did a great job, and I had fun leveling the first pair of toons from 100 to 110, but it was all downhill for me after that. Even the questing, which I initially liked, became a tedious chore when it came time to level my second pair.

This isn't an expansion, it's a jumbo content patch that we were "privileged" to pay for as if it was an expansion. And it's a very grindy, unrewarding patch.
10/12/2018 09:16 PMPosted by Díonysus
BFA is Legion 2.0. Same expansion, just renamed.

I wish. I'd actually be enjoying myself a lot more. And I'd be making a lot more gold.
10/12/2018 05:14 PMPosted by Metrohaha
if you liked Legion you should like BFA.

Loved Legion cuz there was plenty to do so little time. BFA is a dumpster fire that I'm having a hard time even trying to get my monies worth.

I regret a lot of things, and buying BFA is one of them.
I can't put my finger on why i'm feeling so burned out with BFA. I mean, it kind of has the same formula than Legion, but something is off, for me at least.

I think part of it it's because raiding feels pointless if you are not working for a server first or bragging rights. Now that there's no tier sets and nothing meaningful to grind from raids, i'm feeling less and less compelled to run that content, specially now that raiding is so insanely expensive and gold so scarce.

One of my alts already catched up to my main's ilv by doing a few M+'s a day with my friends. We run them without the pressures of being demanded to bring expensive potions and flasks and without the rigid schedule so what's the point?. M raiding has always been demanding but now it's mandatory to have an alchemy alt or you'll be broke in no time.

This never happened to me throughout Legion's duration. I grinded since EN came out until the end of Antorus and i was hyped for Uldir but here i am, not even 2 months in and i'm done with raiding in BFA.
10/12/2018 05:51 PMPosted by Metrohaha
10/12/2018 05:38 PMPosted by Jelybeantoes
BfA took all the worst parts of Legion and doubled down on them. They took everything that was good about Legion and made it demonstrably worse.

Like what, specifically?


Legion's story engaged me. The artifact quests took me all over the world. The expansion included a brand new class, my main now. Each artifact had progression I could control. I chose where to put my artifact power. I knew exactly what I was working for, and I never lost it.

As a paladin Wake of Ashes was a game changer. Getting the trait that automatically broke me out of CC was amazing. The same sort of thing was true on nearly every class that I played.

Azerite is the polar opposite. My abilities aren't usually impactful, and when one is it's frustrating because then you don't want to swap it out for a much higher iLvl piece, because you lose that trait that changes how your class plays.

You say you're loving the expansion, and after seeing your armory I understand why. You're a mythic raid main tank playing the most OP tank of the expansion in M+, and a crazy strong option for raiding.

Your ilvl is 382. You have a ready made group to run any sort of content you'd like to do. Try putting all that aside for a moment, and imagine you're a feral druid, or an ele shaman, or a marksman hunter.

Imagine if your class was changed in a way you dislike, instead of one you personally enjoy. Now to be clear I am devil's advocate. I love my BM hunter, and I love my DH in both specs. I'm loving my class.

Trouble is I came back to BfA with an amazing healer, and two DPS. They happened to play shamans and druids, and their classes were an ugly shadow of what they once were. All those friends have quit.

They quit because outside of raiding and M+ there is a small fraction of the stuff there was to do in legion. And since their classes suck, they can't access the end game content they'd like to do.

Rerolling is definitely option. They chose to leave the game instead, because they don't feel rewarded for their time. Everyone loved leveling. No one loved the max level content in my little group.
10/13/2018 08:40 PMPosted by Bretherezen
10/12/2018 05:33 PMPosted by Metrohaha
but still feel like AP

It's not more valuable than leveling your Legion artifact weapon, sorry. Legion AW bonuses are far, far superior compared to Azerite bonuses.

10/12/2018 05:30 PMPosted by Molecula
Shamans, DKs, Shadow Priests and Monks do not appear in PVP right now.

Things like AP, Titanforging, Legendaries (now azerite gear) and of course Mythic+ were all things I really enjoyed working with in Legion, and my biggest fear before BFA was announced was that they would scrap one or all of these ideas.

Legendaries (now azerite gear) - if you think that one of these is anything like the other, you are seriously mistaken.
Legion was vastly better than BFA. Not even close. The difference is that the systems and rewards in Legion were tuned to keep you playing.

In BFA, those systems are perverted and empty, which seem designed to make us hate WoW. I don't think it was intended, but there it is.
I have unsubbed.


-Launching a confirmed "unfinished" game for the sake of having there be something to do = cash grab. Players shouldn't have to deal with unfinished broken specs in a game - Shamans / Shadow / Prot Warriors etc.

The biggest reason for me -At 6/8 heroic (as well for streamer Hazelnutty) didn't get Azerite progression gear until progression was over. So...the thing that is supposed to help with progression is locked behind for many players until progression is over? Makes no sense whatsoever.

If there would have been a vendor / seals system to be able to get a piece per every few weeks to pick up Azerite pieces towards progression would have been ok. But to have character progression locked entirely to RNG (Bad luck protection isn't working here) is not a system I can monetarily support.

The difference from Legion here is that I would have had maybe a few pieces of tier from LFR / Normal / Heroic...a decent mix by now - maybe a 2 piece at least if not 4 piece. But to still have a big fat goose egg still for progression gear and stuck with 340 pieces? Get Rekt

That's a nope for me.

Emerald Nightmare did not have tier sets, so no, you wouldn't. Legendary RNG was worse than Azerite will ever be. It's only been 2 years and you've forgotten everything? lululul
10/13/2018 11:28 PMPosted by Presumption
Legion was vastly better than BFA. Not even close. The difference is that the systems and rewards in Legion were tuned to keep you playing.

In BFA, those systems are perverted and empty, which seem designed to make us hate WoW. I don't think it was intended, but there it is.

And you all complained about those systems. How they "forced" you to log in everyday, do every world quest, forego all your alts, blah blah to "stay competitive."

You complained that mythic plus rewarded too much gear/ ap and that legendaries had too much impact.

So they've nerfed the neck/ ap grind, no need to farm it, nerfed mythic plus rewards, they are a joke now, and made the difference between azerite traits significantly less.

And now you complain about them giving you exactly what you wanted... again, lululu
I think our memories are skewed when we compare Legion to BfA, WoD to BfA, so on.

The more time that passes, the more skewed our memories become. Nostalgia is a big, fat liar that's lovely to "see" but it's still a liar.

Thing is, there is something missing with BfA and it's weird. It's weirder than any other expac I've played and I've been playing since 2011.
So Idk what to tell anyone other than BfA is okay. It's kind of boring and it's sort of fun sometimes.

I wish I knew where the story was going and where is Sylvanas? She keeps taking off.
rep grinds are too boring to be used as content gates

rep grinds are supposed to be optional pursuits for special items or gear
Please, for the love of Talos, bring back clickable AP as long as you bring back fast leveling for alts.

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