Would an Ashenvale Warfront have been better?

Story Forum
Narratively speaking?

10/19/2018 06:19 PMPosted by Tyriellais
Something else that’s bugged me:

Why Darkshore?

It’s basically the only Night Elf zone left.

Why not Ashenvale? Even after our questing, it’s ALREADY stuck in a never ending battle with the Horde. We don’t push them out or anything by the end.

Why take away the only zone we have left?

I always thought a Forest Song vs. Warsong Lumber Camp Warfront would have actually been great, especially to update Ashenvale, which needed it a lot more then Darkshore because of that volcano in the middle of Ashenvale. Could have also helped bring in Draenei architecture as well to add in a little more variety. And as Ashenvale has always been fought for between the Night Elves and the Horde, it would have been familiar enough that it probably wouldn't have stung as much.

At least, that was before adding in the Undead Night Elves and in ineffectiveness of the Night Warrior into the story.

Had those elements still remained, would have Ashenvale Warfront still have been less harsh on the Night Elves, at least in implying we had already pushed back through Darkshore to get there. Or would Delaryn and Sira and the botching of the Night Warrior still have made it just as bad?
If there was an Ashenvale warfront at least then some of the mission table missions would have seemed canon. But now it looks like the mission table missions meant to be non-canon.
Frankly? Because Ashenvale would have been NE versus Orcs. Darkshore, and everything that surrounds it, is really NE versus Forsaken, and that was the thematic they wished to use.
It definitely should have been in Ashenvale. Ashenvale has always been a hotly contested battleground zone.

The Night Warrior scenario should've put a decisive end to the Forsaken presence in Darkshore. The Warfront should have the Horde line pushed back to Splintertree, with the Alliance retaking Astranaar for their base.

Darkshore is irritating on the Alliance-side because the mission table gains turned out to be non-canon and the Night Elves haven't made the slightest bit of progress even against a wildly overextended Forsaken force.

Darkshore is irritating on the Horde side because this is the second of two Warfronts that has the Horde defending a location they don't give two !@#$s about. Ar'gorok was bad, but at least it was in a contested zone that Horde players have some investment in. Horde-only players only find out Darkshore even exists if they run too far on the road trying to find BFD.

It doesn't feel good for the Alliance to win a zone they've always owned, and it doesn't feel good for the Horde to win a zone they don't care about.

Updating Ashenvale would've given them a golden opportunity to pave over that dumb %^-* volcano too.

Just a massive design fail, as is par for the course this expansion.
How would the night elves camp out right outside of orgrimmar? The heart of the Horde's power? They have no support. They're not powerful now. They have no home base. They have no resources. They're massively outnumbered.

They'd be instantly driven out of Ashenvale. Is another loss really what you think the night elves need right now? Darkshore is at least a believable win for them.
10/19/2018 07:37 PMPosted by Treng
How would the night elves camp out right outside of orgrimmar? The heart of the Horde's power? They have no support. They're not powerful now. They have no home base. They have no resources. They're massively outnumbered.
8.1 presents a Horde following the successful Alliance victory on Zandalar that is canonically mere weeks away from total defeat.

So a better question is, how on earth am I supposed to believe that the Forsaken are holding a pointless front defending territory they aren't using for anything on the opposite side of the continent against a combined force of kaldorei and worgen?
10/19/2018 07:44 PMPosted by Kazala
10/19/2018 07:37 PMPosted by Treng
How would the night elves camp out right outside of orgrimmar? The heart of the Horde's power? They have no support. They're not powerful now. They have no home base. They have no resources. They're massively outnumbered.
8.1 presents a Horde following the successful Alliance victory on Zandalar that is canonically mere weeks away from total defeat.

So a better question is, how on earth am I supposed to believe that the Forsaken are holding a pointless front defending territory they aren't using for anything on the opposite side of the continent against a combined force of kaldorei and worgen?


Like I said: Darkshore is a believable win for them.

Ashenvale is not. The forsaken would not be fighting alone in Ashenvale.
Should have been a Feralas warfront, with the Night Elves defending Feathermoon.
10/19/2018 07:37 PMPosted by Treng
How would the night elves camp out right outside of orgrimmar? The heart of the Horde's power? They have no support. They're not powerful now. They have no home base. They have no resources. They're massively outnumbered.

They'd be instantly driven out of Ashenvale. Is another loss really what you think the night elves need right now? Darkshore is at least a believable win for them.


The Horde in its entirety isn't strong enough to push the Night Elves out of Ashenvale, and never has been.
10/19/2018 08:03 PMPosted by Mystaerica
10/19/2018 07:37 PMPosted by Treng
How would the night elves camp out right outside of orgrimmar? The heart of the Horde's power? They have no support. They're not powerful now. They have no home base. They have no resources. They're massively outnumbered.

They'd be instantly driven out of Ashenvale. Is another loss really what you think the night elves need right now? Darkshore is at least a believable win for them.


The Horde in its entirety isn't strong enough to push the Night Elves out of Ashenvale, and never has been.


but it just literally did
10/19/2018 08:00 PMPosted by Hahahahahaha
Should have been a Feralas warfront, with the Night Elves defending Feathermoon.


In the grand scheme of things, feathermoon stronghold is irrelevant comparatively. It's not near anything remotely night elven - it's flanked by Desolace, Silithus and the tauren capital - whereas a warfront in Darkshore is meant to symbolise (assuming, of course, that the night elves "win" it) their major recuperation efforts.

That's my take, in any case.
10/19/2018 08:03 PMPosted by Mystaerica

The Horde in its entirety isn't strong enough to push the Night Elves out of Ashenvale, and never has been.


And yet, A Good War and Elegy showed they managed exactly that. Funny.

But on topic here, narratively the warfronts should have been reflections of the old BGs.

Arathi: Human vs Undead.

Darkshore: night elf vs orc

Because they wanted to go with the classic Orc vs Human theme first, so here we go.

Now could they have redone the story to have the Night Warrior scenario be the push that forced the Horde back into Ashenvale? Probably. I'd argue that doing so would have opened up another can of worms that will cause this forum to REEE but, they certainly good do it.
10/19/2018 08:05 PMPosted by Treng
but it just literally did
While the sentinels were out of town, and while they weren't trying to fight the Alliance unsuccessfully on several other fronts.
10/19/2018 07:44 PMPosted by Kazala
10/19/2018 07:37 PMPosted by Treng
How would the night elves camp out right outside of orgrimmar? The heart of the Horde's power? They have no support. They're not powerful now. They have no home base. They have no resources. They're massively outnumbered.
8.1 presents a Horde following the successful Alliance victory on Zandalar that is canonically mere weeks away from total defeat.

So a better question is, how on earth am I supposed to believe that the Forsaken are holding a pointless front defending territory they aren't using for anything on the opposite side of the continent against a combined force of kaldorei and worgen?


If only real world history wasn't littered with examples of over confident military officials believing wars would be over in short order.

The Alliance belief in winning the war quick and cleanly is pretty much how it takes Jaina ex Machina to stop them from running all the way back to Stormwind and then save a large chunk of Alliance leadership from being gased.

-----------------------------

I will admit at first Ashenvale would have been the first thought for a Night Elf battleground, but Darkshore makes more sense from the narrative perspective given that the two main Alliance strongholds in Kalimdor left are Hyjal and the Exodar.

I feel like Alliance like to think that only their mission table is cannon while ignoring the Horde mission table, when most of the gains they think they make have direct counters.

Taking both mission tables into account from my perspective seems to imply Ashenvale is currently in a state where the Horde is merely playing "wack an elf" while building up Zormgar to serve as a true regional stronghold.
10/19/2018 08:10 PMPosted by Kazala
10/19/2018 08:05 PMPosted by Treng
but it just literally did
While the sentinels were out of town, and while they weren't trying to fight the Alliance unsuccessfully on several other fronts.


I really dont get how people still dont grasp this. All of the media surrounding the event makes a huge point of it, repeatedly.
10/19/2018 07:14 PMPosted by Saiphas
Frankly? Because Ashenvale would have been NE versus Orcs. Darkshore, and everything that surrounds it, is really NE versus Forsaken, and that was the thematic they wished to use.

This. Was just about to type this, but Saiphas beat me to it.

It's also possible they don't want to have fighting that close to Orgrimmar yet.
10/19/2018 09:04 PMPosted by Desanvos
If only real world history wasn't littered with examples of over confident military officials believing wars would be over in short order.

The Alliance belief in winning the war quick and cleanly is pretty much how it takes Jaina ex Machina to stop them from running all the way back to Stormwind and then save a large chunk of Alliance leadership from being gased.
So, i'd be with you on this if it wasn't the Horde saying the Horde is a few weeks out from total defeat.

10/19/2018 09:32 PMPosted by Pellex
This. Was just about to type this, but Saiphas beat me to it.
I guess I don't understand how "well, they wanted it to be Forsaken" is a good reason for it to be Darkshore and not Ashenvale. It's already madness that the Forsaken Warfront is in Kalimdor and the Orc Warfront is in the EK. They'd be cooking up a Forsaken base out of nowhere either way.
10/19/2018 09:57 PMPosted by Kazala
10/19/2018 09:04 PMPosted by Desanvos
If only real world history wasn't littered with examples of over confident military officials believing wars would be over in short order.

The Alliance belief in winning the war quick and cleanly is pretty much how it takes Jaina ex Machina to stop them from running all the way back to Stormwind and then save a large chunk of Alliance leadership from being gased.
So, i'd be with you on this if it wasn't the Horde saying the Horde is a few weeks out from total defeat.

10/19/2018 09:32 PMPosted by Pellex
This. Was just about to type this, but Saiphas beat me to it.
I guess I don't understand how "well, they wanted it to be Forsaken" is a good reason for it to be Darkshore and not Ashenvale. It's already madness that the Forsaken Warfront is in Kalimdor and the Orc Warfront is in the EK. They'd be cooking up a Forsaken base out of nowhere either way.


Because the central conflict they are trying to set is between Night Elves and Forsaken, representing the Cosmic Forces of Life and Death respectively, and Orcs and Humans, representing the forces of Disorder and Order respectively. Darkshore has a resonance with this cosmic fight between life and death.
10/19/2018 08:00 PMPosted by Hahahahahaha
Should have been a Feralas warfront, with the Night Elves defending Feathermoon.
Funny you should mention that, I made a post about that several weeks ago, except it was more about taking control of Dire Maul as a new capital city for either the Night elves or the Forsaken.
I think they went with Darkshore just so they could have the skybox with the ruined world tree in the background. That and Ashenvale is already sort of Warsong Gulch territory so it would be kind of redundant. (Not that the same couldn;t be said for Arathi though I guess that's neither here nor there.)

I think it makes more sense to start with Darkshore and then, if the Night Elves can take that, they can start making in roads to Ashenvale.

Vice Versa, if it were a Forsaken victory there wouldn't be much stopping the Forsaken from building up a new navy and assaulting Azurmyst.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum