"I am sad at the dungeon scene"

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You could just play diablo 3. M+ was a direct port of diablo 3's end game. The biggest difference is that most trash are pretty much still just a trash mob (which is mostly what you seem to be looking for) and it can be done with 1-4 people (functioning like flex raids do).
10/28/2018 01:03 AMPosted by Xyona
the +10 affixes on lower keys sure arent helping for people that don't really care for mechanics, interrupting or what things do..

not sure why they put it this way this time..


I also want to know why Blizz did this. To make things LESS acessible? Is it just so bad if we all get geared up to 370?
10/28/2018 01:14 AMPosted by Xukon
"Well can't do it this week" is not fun. It's not a good idea for the game as a whole. I hate Activision trying to turn every part of wow into an esport.


Ya, this esport thing is garbage. Just do something to make PvP watchable maybe.
Wait for a few months, and pugs will eventually learn all the mechanics. Right now, the m+ community has people who don't quite know all the small important mechanics that make it difficult for them to have patience and learn.

Until then, group with friends and save yourself the headache.
10/28/2018 04:34 AMPosted by Dalarina
Things aren't tuned around method?

Things are tuned around you having a basic understanding of your class and role and the other 4 people having a basic understanding of their class and role. There are plenty of resources to help you with those since it appears you are lacking.


Your IO shows I am further progressed at everything in this game then you, especially Mythic+. Were you just itching to get a 'git gud' in?

The whole point is basic understanding wont get you anywhere. The point is that the mechanics in this dungeons are about as forgiving as mythic raiding and that drops 385s. This is to say nothing of timers and the DPS requirements.
10/28/2018 12:54 AMPosted by Taironn
You cant carry anymore in these friggen dungeons because they are so damn convoluted.


mm. if your group is 370 and you can't carry one person through a +6, that's....not a problem with the dungeon.
10/28/2018 04:28 AMPosted by Kolee
10/28/2018 01:47 AMPosted by Joyeuse
...Lmao these words together are so ridiculous.
You can't have fun when strategy is involved?


Look man, playing monopoly has 'strategy'. But if you are playing with someone who only cares about that its gonna be less fun.

These dungeons are taking themselves too serious for my taste.
Learn to CC , not everything has to be AOE down
10/28/2018 11:28 AMPosted by Faustim
Until then, group with friends and save yourself the headache.


This. Git guild. Stop pugging.

While I do appreciate, and agree with, the notion that trash should be de-emphasized and the more-challenging stuff should be reserved for bosses (which is the opposite of M+ for the higher levels and certain affixes), that's also not what you are promised when you step into any M+ dungeon. If you don't like doing trash that requires careful cc and strategy (and, counter-intuitively at times, you need to slow down in order to speed up), then don't do M+ dungeons.

Also, the whole concept of M+ dungeons is running and re-running them dozens of times to grind up your key and earn the more-difficult content.

You could, I guess, if you just wanted dungeon content where the trash was easy and the bosses were more challenging, just do heroics or Mythic-0 dungeons and take off half your gear until your ilvl drops 15 or 30 points or whatever it takes to make the boss challenging.
10/28/2018 11:34 AMPosted by Annastasi
10/28/2018 12:54 AMPosted by Taironn
You cant carry anymore in these friggen dungeons because they are so damn convoluted.


mm. if your group is 370 and you can't carry one person through a +6, that's....not a problem with the dungeon.


The tank wiped us multiple times by making ignorant mistakes. This statement is super ignorant. Its bolstering this week dude. You can easily have one clueless fool pulling extra nonstop and screwing you.

I could come up with endless examples for this here. Give your head a shake.
10/28/2018 01:08 AMPosted by Propaganda
Sure you can carry people. There's messages in Trade chat all the time offering to carry people at high M+.
Yeah, just for ships and giggles I checked out the website of one of those M+ carries in Trade...+15, Piloted ONLY, $29.95 USD for all packages (they offered several, from multiple runs at lower keys to +15 with no guarantee of in-time finish...I thought that bit of honesty was a nice touch).

Reported.
10/28/2018 11:37 AMPosted by Taironn
10/28/2018 11:34 AMPosted by Annastasi
...

mm. if your group is 370 and you can't carry one person through a +6, that's....not a problem with the dungeon.


The tank wiped us multiple times by making ignorant mistakes. This statement is super ignorant. Its bolstering this week dude. You can easily have one clueless fool pulling extra nonstop and screwing you.

I could come up with endless examples for this here. Give your head a shake.


So the tank was the carry?
don't do that. make him dps and have someone else tank.

Some stupid fool pulling nonstop on bolstering week?
bad players aren't a sign that there's something wrong with the dungeon design. It simply means that person has no business being in that level of content.

I don't disagree, players who don't understand the m+ system and it's affixes, then run in and screw over the entire group are a huge problem, but that doesn't mean the system is faulty.
For me the timer is the issue. I love raiding, because we can set up, discuss strategy, make an attempt, fail, modify strategy, get further, fail, modify strategy, down boss. Teamwork and cohesion are a ton of fun.

In M+ mistakes break groups. One person messing up once can be the difference between making a key or not, and that's really stressful to a lot of players. This is why so many people avoid M+, and why none of my friends enjoy them.

There's no strategizing. Yes, yes, I know there is strategy. I mean you are not stopping and figuring out how to do a fight, because you can't ever stop, even for a second. You must go go go right up to the last boss.

I get that's fun for a lot of people. I just wish there was a dungeon mode like OP is suggesting, where the bosses were really hard, and you needed to do those fights absolutely perfectly or your face gets pushed in. But with a timer taken away so if my group wants to wipe on a T-Rex that fears 45 times in a row, we can.

And I don't want the trash to be far, far, far scarier than the boss ever could like it is right now. How about normal dungeon trash in limited quantities, and super interesting bosses, instead of 45+ trash packs in Motherlode?
10/28/2018 11:45 AMPosted by Arkelion
In M+ mistakes break groups. One person messing up once can be the difference between making a key or not, and that's really stressful to a lot of players. This is why so many people avoid M+, and why none of my friends enjoy them.


There's a big difference between 'doing a key' and 'pushing a key.'

You push keys that you've already gotten on farm status and you 'do' keys that are on the edge of your skill/gear level.

I recommend that when you put groups together, be sure that everyone knows whether or not you're pushing it or just completing it. Because they're two completely different things that use different mindsets and approaches.

You should probably focus on just completion groups if the stress of pushing a key is too much.
10/28/2018 11:25 AMPosted by Taironn
10/28/2018 01:03 AMPosted by Xyona
the +10 affixes on lower keys sure arent helping for people that don't really care for mechanics, interrupting or what things do..

not sure why they put it this way this time..

I also want to know why Blizz did this. To make things LESS acessible? Is it just so bad if we all get geared up to 370?

They thought it would inspire casuals to spam high keys, to be like the kewl kids they were supposed to be watching in streams. They thought wrong. Everyone I know who used to run mythic+ every week is doing less or none at all. No casuals run them at all. Ion has no idea who plays the game and what they like to do.
10/28/2018 12:54 AMPosted by Taironn
Stop tuning things around Method.

10/28/2018 12:54 AMPosted by Taironn
are doing a bleedin 6


Bro, you gotta get some years under that belt if you think a M+6 was tuned with consideration for world first elites. Expectations, check 'em.

It's alright to get burned out of dungeons, and natural to be frustrated by inequity of skill from members. The core difficulty of the game in multiplayer are the other players.
There's a mode which you have to slip into sometimes which is just to understand, the game is rated T for teen, it's international, and everyone is different. And that mode is, teaching completion. You accept you aren't going to make the timer, and you'll accept X number of party wipes from Y point. Let the others know and remember to breath for 5 seconds before letting other people know what they were doing wrong and can do better.
One thing I've noticed is how detrimental doing +2 or +3 keystones are in terms of being properly rewarded. Since Tyrannical and Fortified were moved to those levels since last expansion, bosses or trash mobs are significantly harder already, and your potential reward for completing the keystone will be an item 5 or 10 ilevels higher than a base mythic's rewards. Combine that with most people not realizing these affixes are active when they're used to them not being since last expansion, and it feels like more work for less reward to even bother doing them.
Therefore, my mentality going forward is to avoid +2 or +3 keystones; until I get high enough ilevels to step into +4 or higher, I'm better off running base mythics. Not only will there be no affixes to make the bosses or mobs harder, but I will have more chances at loot that could be upgrades per boss.
10/28/2018 11:42 AMPosted by Annastasi
So the tank was the carry?
don't do that. make him dps and have someone else tank.

Some stupid fool pulling nonstop on bolstering week?
bad players aren't a sign that there's something wrong with the dungeon design. It simply means that person has no business being in that level of content.


This man has answered your question.

10/28/2018 11:45 AMPosted by Arkelion
In M+ mistakes break groups. One person messing up once can be the difference between making a key or not, and that's really stressful to a lot of players. This is why so many people avoid M+, and why none of my friends enjoy them.
I think people are having a hard time transitioning from end-of-legion anyone and their mom being able to easily clear +15s to a fresh expansion.

Even in Legion early on most people I know couldn't or at least didn't want to put in the effort required to clear the keys that gave the highest possible gear. That's what we're back to early in BfA.

Now, I do think the dungeon mechanics in BfA combined with the affixes we had in Legion do make them harder than Legion so I'm not going to pretend that's not also a factor, but I think people are compounding these 2 points into only the latter when it's not fair to do so.
10/28/2018 12:10 PMPosted by Kiraera
I think people are having a hard time transitioning from end-of-legion anyone and their mom being able to easily clear +15s to a fresh expansion.

Even in Legion early on most people I know couldn't or at least didn't want to put in the effort required to clear the keys that gave the highest possible gear. That's what we're back to early in BfA.

Now, I do think the dungeon mechanics in BfA combined with the affixes we had in Legion do make them harder than Legion so I'm not going to pretend that's not also a factor, but I think people are compounding these 2 points into only the latter when it's not fair to do so.


Good post, but I think the comparison IS fair to make. Some people have this mindset that Blizzard is allowed to push a reset button every expansion, and that we should expect the game play to regress.

That's not okay in modern gaming.

Three months ago we could run M+ on classes that had more tools, without our defensive kits locked behind the GCD. Whether you were clearing a +15, or just doing a +3, you had a better kit, and the corresponding dungeon level had fewer affixes.

So the dungeons are harder.
They have a !@#$ ton more trash.
The trash is far more lethal.
Your class has less tools than it did before.

It's the beginning of an expansion, and I get that some reduction in power might be needed. But it shouldn't have been this extreme, and again, I feel the legion to BfA comparison is very fair to make.

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