I can already see trust levels complaints

General Discussion
11/12/2018 09:45 AMPosted by Merridae
It doesn't need to but it should allow it. Ethically speaking it isn't the idea you agree with that you should be defending, it should be the ideas that you hate and that the majority hate that need defending from the whims of the majority. If even a single person is not allowed to voice their opinion in whatever fashion that person deems best suited to get his point across colorful language and all, then your opinion at some point will be hated equally by someone else and when that happens the foundation you have built for yourself in the marketplace of ideas turns to quicksand and drags you under with it.


No, it's not necessary to communicate ideas and the community around a video game forum doesn't need it for any reason whatsoever. Voicing an opinion doesn't need profanity, hate speech, vitriol, etc.

The world isn't going to end because someone spanks you if you swear. You just learn not to swear. I can be profoundly insulting to someone and never utter a curse word.

The forum rules aren't onerous. And you're not super duper cool because you can use naughty words.
11/12/2018 05:54 AMPosted by Crepe
11/12/2018 05:51 AMPosted by Amine
I just wonder about the more frequent posting business - does that mean people are going to be restricted to a certain number of posts until they 'earn' their trust.


From the FAQs already posted, it requires reading 5 threads and being on the forums for 10 minutes to get the restriction lifted.

I honestly think people can handle this.


Yeah. I've already spent close to an hour just going through new posts, and that's just the General Forum...
I oppose (will not appreciate) cluttering up forums with 4"x7" images.
11/12/2018 10:02 AMPosted by Heartbreaker
I oppose (will not appreciate) cluttering up forums with 4"x7" images.


To tell the truth, that's what I find to be the most unappealing feature.
11/12/2018 06:09 AMPosted by Nyalmi
Is it bad that I am aiming for level 3 purely for meme privileges?
I am aiming for Level 3 because I will be missing being called a white knight shill MVP wannabe. Hope Level 3 will cause people to go back to that.
11/12/2018 09:52 AMPosted by Mvura
11/12/2018 09:45 AMPosted by Merridae
You don't defeat bad ideas by suppression, you defeat them with more and better ideas. You drown out the bad ideas by overwhelming them with good ones and you KEEP ON TALKING. You keep on LISTENING. You keep the lines open rather than finding new ways to shut them down.


What you're describing is a way of defeating ideas in general. The good or bad moniker is a personal judgement call.

Of course, when you're thinking about a video game feature like government policy, we're already done. You can't debate someone into submission; that's not really how it works.


An idea is, quite astonishingly, an idea. Whether its government policy, video game features, civil discourse, or macro economics in Micronesia. You and I and everyone else must treat with them equally. Individually we are not bound to accept ideas we dislike but at a platform level a group must have the tolerance to indulge even ideas that shock otherwise we begin a long slow downward spiral into commonality. Where then will come that cure for cancer or the answer to the mechanism that created the Universe?

Where will come that left field inspiration that makes WoW or Diablo or Overwatch a million times better? You suppress that one idea and the handwriting is literally on the wall. Your games that you love will stagnate.

You don't think of it like government policy you think of it as what are my ethical and moral obligations to the members of the marketplace.
11/12/2018 10:02 AMPosted by Heartbreaker
I oppose (will not appreciate) cluttering up forums with 4"x7" images.
You don't have to worry. The fanboys are crowing about being able to post memes but in reality the Level 3's are rare. Reaching and maintaining the requirements is waaay too much work. Hell unless they're "auto-3'd" even MVP's like Crepe won't be able to post pics/links.
11/12/2018 09:11 AMPosted by Mirasol
I really hate the use of the term White Knight to describe someone who can follow basic rules of civility on a forum. Criticism of Blizzard does not need to take the form of profanity, insults, spam, trolling, or harassment of other posters who disagree. The only thing the trust system rewards is being civil to fellow posters. You most certainly don't need to toe some sort of pro Blizzard line.


Since level 3 condition is you've never been suspended from the game or forums in any blizzard game, I think the only 3s will be people who never say anything controversial.

Certainly following the code of conduct is a step in that direction, but not all forum suspensions can be tied to a specific code of conduct violation -- it is at the end of the day up to the moderator.

So while I'm not a huge fan of language like white knight, I feel like it's not completely unfair in this case. I've never been one to use profanity, insults, trolling, etc and in my forum history I have 2 suspensions (both in wrath, I believe).
11/12/2018 05:54 AMPosted by Crepe
From the FAQs already posted, it requires reading 5 threads and being on the forums for 10 minutes to get the restriction lifted.

I honestly think people can handle this.


Sounds more like something that would keep people from bothering to post at all.
The system itself sounds like a way to minimize Blizzard criticisms.
11/12/2018 09:57 AMPosted by Crepe
Voicing an opinion doesn't need profanity, hate speech, vitriol, etc.


Please define "hate speech" for me. Requirement: You may not use Blizzard's definition or any pseudo definition reached by some state or some agency of a state or local government. I want a universally accepted definition of "hate speech". Same thing for Profanity please give for me an exhaustive list of words universally accepted as profanity. Vitriol is ambiguous at best you will not find a universal definition of this word because it requires context to discern the intent which might not be found. There exists no universal form of vitriol that is seen by all as vitriol. One man's meat is yet another's poison. I myself have heard The Beatitudes described as Vitriolic.

Imagine then if you and I Crepe cannot agree upon these terms how poorly one of the Moderation Team would be vexed to find these answers and do so correctly?

11/12/2018 09:57 AMPosted by Crepe
The world isn't going to end because someone spanks you if you swear.
The thing is that no one has the authority to do the spanking from an ethical standpoint. In legalese perhaps someone might argue in court that they do but ethically they never can have it as the customer is not property.

11/12/2018 09:57 AMPosted by Crepe
You just learn not to swear.
Except that there is no one around with the just authority to teach the lesson.

11/12/2018 09:57 AMPosted by Crepe
I can be profoundly insulting to someone and never utter a curse word.
As can we all when we put our minds to that task. But a poor sort of task it is and again I invite you to give an exhaustive list of words considered universally profane under all contexts.

11/12/2018 09:57 AMPosted by Crepe
The forum rules aren't onerous.


I would disagree. The forum rules are most decidedly onerous as they have in the past and will be again applied capriciously and arbitrarily. The application not the rule is what makes it onerous.
Hahahah you people defending a "trust" privilage in a forum.
How... delusional. Part and parcel of WOD err I mean BFA and Nu-Blizzard.
i think the whole trust level thing is kinda stupid.

11/12/2018 09:57 AMPosted by Crepe
11/12/2018 09:45 AMPosted by Merridae
It doesn't need to but it should allow it. Ethically speaking it isn't the idea you agree with that you should be defending, it should be the ideas that you hate and that the majority hate that need defending from the whims of the majority. If even a single person is not allowed to voice their opinion in whatever fashion that person deems best suited to get his point across colorful language and all, then your opinion at some point will be hated equally by someone else and when that happens the foundation you have built for yourself in the marketplace of ideas turns to quicksand and drags you under with it.


No, it's not necessary to communicate ideas and the community around a video game forum doesn't need it for any reason whatsoever. Voicing an opinion doesn't need profanity, hate speech, vitriol, etc.

The world isn't going to end because someone spanks you if you swear. You just learn not to swear. I can be profoundly insulting to someone and never utter a curse word.

The forum rules aren't onerous. And you're not super duper cool because you can use naughty words.


Lets get something straight right now.

I do not like or agree with the use of words or phrases in rules that are intentionally open ended, create loopholes, or make that rule ripe for abuse by the moderators. I dont trust Blizzard, I don't trust the mods, and I don't trust you not to be abusive.

Secondly,. I am a full grown man. I will say what I want, wherever I please. If I want to swear, I will swear. If I want to be critical, I will be critical. I dont need to be "spanked" if i decide to use adult language. This isn't pre school "uh oh, Mrs. Aslin, he said a bad word!" So what? No one said that swearing was "super cool" either, but again, I am an adult, and I will speak the way I want to. No forum mod is ever going to tell me what to do, tell me what to think, or tell me how to speak.
Just say what blizzard wants you to say and you too can be a level 3 trust holder!
The whole aim of censorship isn't to actually prohibit speech but to make people self-censor by constantly worrying what inflammatory statement may incur the wrath of the big wigs.

"Trust" is another way of getting people to commit self censorship.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

From the FAQs already posted, it requires reading 5 threads and being on the forums for 10 minutes to get the restriction lifted.

I honestly think people can handle this.

5 threads?? TEN WHOLE MINUTES?!?!

What's next? They want us to think before we reply?

1984!!


(Redacted)

Seems like (redacted) and a great way to (redacted) be.

But being more serious. Will the same thing apply to everyone? If a green for example posts inflammatory trash will he\she be subject to the same treatment as standard posters.

They need a CM out here to be clarifying all these questions... It's thier job to comunnicate
11/12/2018 05:47 AMPosted by You
How they think they can't be level 3 because they got "flag abused" because of "I wasn't offending anyone they just attacked me personally 1!!!1" so their privilege is gone


TBH this is a fact with the OW forums.

Its happened to me, friends, and others.

if u post something ppl dont agree with they will flag you as spam/trolling.

the system automatically silences you if u get enoguh even if the psot is not agaisnt the forum rules.

its the ONLY downside to the OW style forums...and one the ppl in charge dont care enoguh to fix.
11/12/2018 05:49 AMPosted by Crepe
How about a thread talking about some of the things you can do with level 3 once you get it instead?

I mean, we've got enough of these threads already, don't you think?

And I've only seen one person insist that a Rickroll should be the first video link and that's just a sad state of events.


Needs to be a Robo Rickroll IMO.
11/12/2018 11:18 AMPosted by Lockedheart
11/12/2018 05:47 AMPosted by You
How they think they can't be level 3 because they got "flag abused" because of "I wasn't offending anyone they just attacked me personally 1!!!1" so their privilege is gone


TBH this is a fact with the OW forums.

Its happened to me, friends, and others.

if u post something ppl dont agree with they will flag you as spam/trolling.

the system automatically silences you if u get enoguh even if the psot is not agaisnt the forum rules.

its the ONLY downside to the OW style forums...and one the ppl in charge dont care enoguh to fix.

My advice about this would be simple : When the new forums come, be super incredibly extra careful about your first posts. Post in a way that you could defend them if actioned later... not in a grey area, but where you could show you were trying to post in a friendly constructive way. Do that starting out for a while, feeling out the new forums.

If posters can't restrain themselves to doing that to start with, then maybe some moderation is exactly what they need.
11/12/2018 10:21 AMPosted by Mescyn
Since level 3 condition is you've never been suspended from the game or forums in any blizzard game, I think the only 3s will be people who never say anything controversial.


It's not. I've been banned and I'm still level 3 on the Overwatch forums.

Getting banned didn't even revoke my level 3 either, so I'd imagine you can "bank" trust beyond level 3.

It's certainly not "one strike and you'll never get level 3 again".

11/12/2018 11:13 AMPosted by Eret
But being more serious. Will the same thing apply to everyone? If a green for example posts inflammatory trash will he\she be subject to the same treatment as standard posters.


Dunno. Overwatch forums hasn't had a Snowfox yet.

(I kid)
11/12/2018 05:49 AMPosted by Crepe

And I've only seen one person insist that a Rickroll should be the first video link and that's just a sad state of events.


The history on that is not really correct (The Rickroll thing, if you look it up):

It fails to mention that a lot of the reason why Astley's song was selected, was that back in the day MTV and VH1 basically "Rickrolled" us with the video. I think that is the reason it became the video, for the "Rickroll" troll.

At any particular time of the day, while languishing as a loser in my Parent's basement (52 now, so this was some time ago...), you'd be likely to either flip by MTV or VH1 and the "Never Gonna Give You Up" video was likely to be on; For whatever reason, it was an incredibly popular video. I'd even be at a party/gathering that friends were having, someone would flip through on the cable channels and ... "Never Gonna Give You Up!" Then you would hear an audible "crowd groan."
I knew EVERY, SINGLE, WORD, without ever really liking the song.

This made me think that either MTV and VH1, or call in users, were basically "trolling everyone" LONG before this was an Internet thing.

Meanwhile, I remember the song receiving hardly any radio play.

So, eons later when the "Rickroll" thing started, it was like getting back in touch with an old friend.

I don't think the use of the song was random, as I believe Astley and other's have said (think there was a clip of Astley talking about it on the Graham Norton show.) If you had to think of one song that was really rammed down your throat back then, it would be that one, at least as far as Videos went.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum