8.1 Discussion 2

Wyrmrest Accord
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I hope we get a new fishing pole sometime this expansion.
10/17/2018 01:34 AMPosted by Enekie
I'll be honest. Allied races don't make a lot of sense to me.

Don't get me wrong: the concept makes perfect sense. The Horde and Alliance are both broader than their core components and it's neat that we get to see Dark Irons and Mag'har. And when I thought they were going to be just racial skins, that sounded fine.

But now they occupy some weird middle ground where they're their own race, but you can't just dive into them. You have to unlock them. You have to grind for them. Then you have to do a scenario for them. Then you can finally play them.

Feels like a lot of hurdles to go through just to access content we've previously just been given. I mean, what's different about Allied races except that they're a pain to get and they start at level 20? Even the core races are getting heritage armor now.


I never thought about it like this before and now that you mention it ...wow. I can't help but wonder about this now too.
10/17/2018 01:39 AMPosted by Fisherman
I hope we get a new fishing pole sometime this expansion.


So do I! I want a truly mighty fishing pole, one that when you cast the lure out to see, it makes a splash bigger than if Sargeras's fingernail had fallen in there. ANd all the fish come out. ALL OF THEM! Right onto wherever your fishing spot is for easy pick up.

Put some bells and whistles on it and call it the 'Ultimate Fishing Pole' or something.
I won't lie, I would buy a Fishing Pole off the WoW site if it just auto-looted when you 'hooked' a fish and then recast. I don't care if it's $80 bucks and looks like something off of a certain morally grey dragon's rejected projects, I hate the way Fishing works in WoW and can't wait for it to be overhauled someday.
10/17/2018 01:54 AMPosted by Phellius
I won't lie, I would buy a Fishing Pole off the WoW site if it just auto-looted when you 'hooked' a fish and then recast. I don't care if it's $80 bucks and looks like something off of a certain morally grey dragon's rejected projects, I hate the way Fishing works in WoW and can't wait for it to be overhauled someday.


I agree.

...I really want fishing in WoW to be a lot more engaging. Just make it action packed and like, you have to fight to reel the fish in and things like that. Maybe pressing a few buttons or something, I don't know. Just...something. Even have fish models of varying sizes so yyou can see the fish as you reel it in and ...

...sigh. Now I want to go to the fishing pond at Lake Hylia again.
10/17/2018 01:34 AMPosted by Enekie
I'll be honest. Allied races don't make a lot of sense to me.

Don't get me wrong: the concept makes perfect sense. The Horde and Alliance are both broader than their core components and it's neat that we get to see Dark Irons and Mag'har. And when I thought they were going to be just racial skins, that sounded fine.

But now they occupy some weird middle ground where they're their own race, but you can't just dive into them. You have to unlock them. You have to grind for them. Then you have to do a scenario for them. Then you can finally play them.

Feels like a lot of hurdles to go through just to access content we've previously just been given. I mean, what's different about Allied races except that they're a pain to get and they start at level 20? Even the core races are getting heritage armor now.


You've more or less summed up my thoughts on the subject. It's mainly why I dislike the unlock reqs and why it somewhat baffles me why so many seem to be so quick to defend it.
10/17/2018 01:34 AMPosted by Enekie
I'll be honest. Allied races don't make a lot of sense to me.

Don't get me wrong: the concept makes perfect sense. The Horde and Alliance are both broader than their core components and it's neat that we get to see Dark Irons and Mag'har. And when I thought they were going to be just racial skins, that sounded fine.

But now they occupy some weird middle ground where they're their own race, but you can't just dive into them. You have to unlock them. You have to grind for them. Then you have to do a scenario for them. Then you can finally play them.

Feels like a lot of hurdles to go through just to access content we've previously just been given. I mean, what's different about Allied races except that they're a pain to get and they start at level 20? Even the core races are getting heritage armor now.


They're designed to waste your time. You have to hit exalted because Blizzard knows it takes about a month typically to do that grind.

And two of the four 'original' allied races make sense. Highmountain Tauren and Lightforged Draenei make perfect sense, but void elves don't and because the nightborne justify joining the horde because the Alliance would never accept them- in the exact same scenario that sets up the Void Elves joining the alliance no less- they don't make much sense either.
10/17/2018 03:11 AMPosted by Shantarin
10/17/2018 01:34 AMPosted by Enekie
I'll be honest. Allied races don't make a lot of sense to me.

Don't get me wrong: the concept makes perfect sense. The Horde and Alliance are both broader than their core components and it's neat that we get to see Dark Irons and Mag'har. And when I thought they were going to be just racial skins, that sounded fine.

But now they occupy some weird middle ground where they're their own race, but you can't just dive into them. You have to unlock them. You have to grind for them. Then you have to do a scenario for them. Then you can finally play them.

Feels like a lot of hurdles to go through just to access content we've previously just been given. I mean, what's different about Allied races except that they're a pain to get and they start at level 20? Even the core races are getting heritage armor now.


They're designed to waste your time. You have to hit exalted because Blizzard knows it takes about a month typically to do that grind.

And two of the four 'original' allied races make sense. Highmountain Tauren and Lightforged Draenei make perfect sense, but void elves don't and because the nightborne justify joining the horde because the Alliance would never accept them- in the exact same scenario that sets up the Void Elves joining the alliance no less- they don't make much sense either.

The Nightborne joining the Horde actually makes sense. Think of it like this, Tyrande comes back to her city and finds it under the control of the Legion? What does she do? She calls the leader of the Rebellion the next Elisande while leading only a token force of scouts. Enter Liadrin, she DOESN'T insult Thalyssra, cooperates with her, and leads a military force of magisters, Blood Knights, and Farstriders. Thalyssra visits the Sunwell because Liadrin had invited her to see it.
Oh, good, this argument again.
"We only have this square peg."
"But the hole is round!"
"...it will fit. We will MAKE it fit."
Night elves were presented as an equal contribution to the war effort, bringing huntresses and even ancients to the fight...

...but then again the high elves were also presented as a third of the forces which shouldnt be possible given blizzard's statements about how many of them are left...

So idunno maybe they were only presented as equal thirds of the army because it looks cool, or for some gameplay reason I'm unaware of
10/17/2018 04:34 AMPosted by Lintsehsu
...but then again the high elves were also presented as a third of the forces which shouldnt be possible given blizzard's statements about how many of them are left...

So idunno maybe they were only presented as equal thirds of the army because it looks cool, or for some gameplay reason I'm unaware of


It's the same reason after Ion's statement the Alliance's Warfront portal mage is a High Elf.

Blizzard want to use High Elves without giving the players High Elves. They need to keep that in the back pocket. When High Elves become playable, you know the game is truly struggling.
10/17/2018 04:39 AMPosted by Vanndrel
10/17/2018 04:34 AMPosted by Lintsehsu
...but then again the high elves were also presented as a third of the forces which shouldnt be possible given blizzard's statements about how many of them are left...

So idunno maybe they were only presented as equal thirds of the army because it looks cool, or for some gameplay reason I'm unaware of


It's the same reason after Ion's statement the Alliance's Warfront portal mage is a High Elf.

Blizzard want to use High Elves without giving the players High Elves. They need to keep that in the back pocket. When High Elves become playable, you know the game is truly struggling.
My sentiments exactly. When High Elves drop than someone must have truly become desperate to keep hype in the game. The sad thing Is I imagine by then I'd not give enough of a damn to play the game.
I keep pointing out that Tyrande came across as very contemptuous of the Shal'dorei and continuously mocked their arcane-based society. There's a very obvious difference between Tyrande and Liadrin's lines for the same World Quests, with Liadrin very concerned and worried that the civilians are being cut down and you needing to give them hope, while Tyrande seems more concerned with the monstrosity of the Legion and making sure more Shal'dorei fight to ease the burden on her forces.

Then we get to Thalyssa and Tyrande speaking to each other aaaaaand oh my god why haven't Malfurion and Shandris made a Diplomat Corps by now, Tyrande is a horrible diplomat. Pandaria, wants to start a blood-bath in one of the most sacred temples the Pandaren have. Immediately shuts Velen down when he starts talking about Elune and the Naaru. Thalyssa comes up puppy-dog eager to talk about reconnecting with her people and Tyrande basically slaps her upside the head with talk that Thalyssa is going to be the next Azshara and is, again, openly contemptuous of the Shal'dorei's society and demeans them as abandoning the Night Elves, despite the fact it was a cadre of Highborne who made the decision to seal off the city from the rest of the world and not the entire Shal'dorei people.

And the Shal'dorei are a massively politically-obsessed people. You literally live or die based on who you ally with, and how you dance the political dance. The Sin'dorei on one side going "Dude, we get you, we've been there, let's talk about being mystically and spiritually bound to a fragile and vulnerable external power-source that the Legion keeps trying to stick their junk into." and on the other side, we have the Night Elves, led by Tyrande, trying to serenade them into giving up the very thing the Shal'doreis' society is built upon with a soothing chorus of "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!" and backhanded 'diplomacy'.

It's really not hard to understand why Thalyssa jumped the way she did. This was the undisputed religious and political leader of the Night Elves doing this to her and her people. Whatever she might have thought of the Alliance PCs, you're ultimately just powerful champions, not the leaders of what should, by everything that Thalyssa understands, the most sympathetic nation on the planet to her people.

Of course, as the War of Thorns progresses, I'm sitting here doing the Gendo pose waiting for Lor'themar and Thalyssa start to poke letters under Anduin's door asking if they can still join his team ...

Don't get me wrong, I love Tyrande, Malfurion and Illidan, they're my gloriously malformed 'special needs' children and I love following their derpy adventures across Azeroth and beyond, but god-damn when Illidan ends up outpacing you in character growth (admittedly that's not hard when Illidan's character is being driven by ambition and a burning need to surpass his brother, a mountain-sized case of hypocrisy and self-worth issues and being too surly and proud to reach out and talk to people while his brother and childhood friend keep telling people he's insane because they say so ...) there's concerns to be had.

And then Tyrande decides to out-emo Illidan by becoming the Night Warrior. Night Warrior Night Elf Night Priestess yo. NWNENP sounds even worse that SSGSS ...

I just ... you know what, Blizzard, I ain't even mad anymore. I got my tim-tams and cold milk and my poncho, let's go, let's see this sheet-show roll, I've accepted my place in the splash-zone.
Haha I remember the reaction I got from a few people here when I theorised Nightborne for the Horde and High Elves for the Alliance, it sounded so far fetched at the time but hot damn Blizzard was REALLY tossing the hints in the game.

Of course I wasn’t 100% right because we got MAD HIGH Elves instead.

I also love how we can’t have more than 50 slots because, according to Ion, “blah blah who plays that many characters?”

Ion, I don’t need to PLAY them all every week or even every year. I want to collect them and I’ll pay good money to do so.

I don’t want another account, I already have multiple accounts and swapping between them is annoying.

Also, it would be great if Jaina was mean to that Sethrak dude and Horde got them. In return, Alliance can get albino Goblins.
In a somewhat dark revelation, I'm actually in a high-stakes bet with a couple of folks that if the Horde do indeed get Vulpera and Blizz !@#-pulls for the corresponding Alliance race again that we get more horrific tantrums being thrown at the Devs, Story Team and such over twitter again.

I'm putting my faith in humanity and my wallet on the line and betting that we don't do a repeat of what Mrs Golden went through with the Teldrassil nightmare.
I absolutely agree that the nightborne share more cultural similarities with, and were treated with much more dignity by, the blood elves than the night elves.

Over the course of years this could have led to bitterness and hatred against the latter and ties of kinship so strong to the former that they would ally in times of war.

But it has been mere months since the night elves still helped free the nightborne from their former leader making a deal with space Satan.

They deserve better than this from the nightborne.
looking through the lens of the allied races being 'prestige races', im fine with them being unlocked and having to prove why you should join whichever faction

now, this makes a lot more sense with the nightborne, highmountain and mag'har cause the first two are explicitly neutral and the latter out of nowhere, whereas it only makes sense with the void elves alliance side because the dark irons and lightforged are already a given

ideally the next allied races are kind of out there to make the recruitment aspect make more sense

like, say, the vulpera for the horde, and the sethrak for the alliance 8)
The Nightborne allying with the Blood Elves because they and Liadrin actively courted them politically makes 100% sense.

Thalyssra seeming to be perfectly content following "clearly worse than Elisande" in her genocidal campaign against the people that just helped her retake her city (regardless of whether or not they were nice about it) makes Thalyssra a gigantic hypocrite.

This of course comes after "The Alliance is clearly too cloistered" (you know after readily accepting Void Elves as allies). I suppose being a massive idiot is just Thalyssra's character now.
10/17/2018 05:26 AMPosted by Sef
Of course I wasn’t 100% right because we got MAD HIGH Elves instead.


Excuse you. I am a Blueberry Elf.

Tied to the reputation of a bunch of Broken.

And my racial leader is a Quel'dorei.

And I'm actually a Blood Elf, exiled from Silvermoon.

...

There's no way to get around the fact Void Elves are the most baffling race in the game, both in terms of how to get them and then how we actually operate.

10/17/2018 06:35 AMPosted by Lintsehsu
But it has been mere months since the night elves still helped free the nightborne from their former leader making a deal with space Satan.

They deserve better than this from the nightborne.


Actually, looking at Kaldorei society pre-War of the Ancients, Tyrande's the fool who didn't seem to realize this would happen. Night Elves generally are terrible to each other.

10/17/2018 06:54 AMPosted by Taalva
Thalyssra seeming to be perfectly content following "clearly worse than Elisande" in her genocidal campaign against the people that just helped her retake her city (regardless of whether or not they were nice about it) makes Thalyssra a gigantic hypocrite.


It would, if Thalyssra had any say in the narrative. Much like the player Goblins who are forced to accept Gallywix is still their racial leader after the player Goblin pretty much single handedly got them into the Horde (and fought Gallywix in the process), the Nightborne really don't get a say in their own destiny once joining the Horde.

Honestly, I'd feel like the Highmountain would have more issues with the Horde's present direction than the Nightborne. But Tauren truly are Cattle in that regard - they follow the herd.

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