8.1 LFR = 370

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LFR should be equivalent to the previous tier's normal raid,


370 is what you get in a warfront.

You need to remove LFR


No they dont.

Blizzard I'm putting myself out there for judgment and I'm calling for you to remove this humiliating design choice from the game.


LFR is not going anywhere.
That's why Cross realm Mythic in legion opens up after the new Patch.. because people will out gear the content and roflstomp it.
10/17/2018 02:05 PMPosted by Geofferson
In Wrath of the Lich King we weren't farming Ulduar or Naxx25 for gear when we were progressing through ICC.


Um, yeah they were? In WOTLK A new guild has to build up to ICC, you can't just farm out a decent ilvl in 2 weeks from LFR and WQs and hop on in and expect to do well because the latest patch hit.
Late to the party?

This has been standard operating procedure the whole time. The whole time.

Guess what, the norm-mythic hear will increase too...
10/17/2018 02:00 PMPosted by Nyezhing
Sheesh. Special snowflake syndrome yet again. For those who “work” for your gear, I don’t think it means what you think it means. Getting out of bad in a raid is not “work”. And yes, I raid.

I've noticed Proudmoore players are getting increasingly toxic on average. Shame, given I used to think it was a pretty good community-driven realm.

If this is your main, you don't really raid. You have a handful of single kills. At best, you hopped in a semi-decent pug once.
10/17/2018 01:21 PMPosted by Akston
Yes. Typically a new raid tier quickly invalidates the last.


Basically this.

I mean, honestly? Do you actually expect players who haven't finished (and out geared) Heroic Uldir by the time the next tier opens would still be farming the current tier rather than the lower difficulty of the new one? That being Normal?

Also,

Who cares.
10/17/2018 02:13 PMPosted by Shadows
10/17/2018 02:05 PMPosted by Geofferson


In Wrath of the Lich King we weren't farming Ulduar or Naxx25 for gear when we were progressing through ICC.



I remember lots of people doing exactly this in WOTLK. Maybe they were gearing alts, but as a noob who hit level 80 somewhat late in the xpac I joined a number of these pug groups.[/quote]

Absolutely no one did this after Trial came out. No one. Trial 5 mans were the catch up mechanic as were icc 5 mans.
10/17/2018 02:23 PMPosted by Bigoledoinks
10/17/2018 02:05 PMPosted by Geofferson
In Wrath of the Lich King we weren't farming Ulduar or Naxx25 for gear when we were progressing through ICC.


Um, yeah they were? In WOTLK A new guild has to build up to ICC, you can't just farm out a decent ilvl in 2 weeks from LFR and WQs and hop on in and expect to do well because the latest patch hit.


Ummm... no... you could be icc ready after a day spamming icc 5 mans, totc 5 mans and a trial raid pug or two. You obviously didn’t play wrath or you are just stupid.
10/17/2018 01:31 PMPosted by Gladewalker
10/17/2018 01:29 PMPosted by Amademon
...

Why? Heroic and higher raiders will be 400 and higher anyways.


If LFR exists for people to be able to see the content. I don't think it should be nullifying the gear from running previous raid heroic.


You're not special kid. Dragenslaying has never required skill and your gear means nothing.
10/17/2018 02:17 PMPosted by Espur
10/17/2018 02:13 PMPosted by Mokrawr
I can't believe Normal gear will make Mythic Uldir obsolete, this is just another reason we should remove Normal.

I think removing Normal and buffing LFR difficulty would be good. So what if they wipe a lot? That's the point of learning a new raid.

10/17/2018 02:13 PMPosted by Shadows
I remember lots of people doing exactly this in WOTLK. Maybe they were gearing alts, but as a noob who hit level 80 somewhat late in the xpac I joined a number of these pug groups.

Most people farmed the ICC dungeons, as they dropped the same ilvl as Ulduar. I'm sure there were people running Ulduar and maybe Naxx 25, but largely there were better items in the dungeons.

Of course checking Wowhead might not be accurate, as y'know, the squish.


I'm not sure the ICC dungeons had drops for every slot. Even if they did, Ulduar gear had tier set bonuses and I'm pretty sure the trinkets were better.

Regardless, my point is people WERE still running the older raids. Once LFR was released in 4.3 people stopped doing this.
10/17/2018 02:29 PMPosted by Merikeeganky
10/17/2018 02:13 PMPosted by Shadows
...


I remember lots of people doing exactly this in WOTLK. Maybe they were gearing alts, but as a noob who hit level 80 somewhat late in the xpac I joined a number of these pug groups.


Absolutely no one did this after Trial came out. No one. Trial 5 mans were the catch up mechanic as were icc 5 mans.[/quote]

And yet I was in a number of groups that DID do this.
10/17/2018 01:19 PMPosted by Onikage
LOL at some of these responses. My point was putting out 370 as baseline gear for an LFR completely invalidates the need to ever step inside Normal/Heroic Uldir, let alone makes the raid itself useless to players come 8.1, this is really sad. Not only this, it reinforces the concept that gear gets replaced so quickly that nothing really matters for gear. If this doesn't concern you, it will, and if it doesn't, then I'm glad we probably won't be playing together in Vanilla.


LFR and Normal/Heroic are different progression paths.

LFR is the end of the line for its progression path and is gear for the player who doesn't participate in organized gameplay. It is not designed as a stepping stone to more difficult content to the majority of players. It is the end of the line.

Those players who want to participate in organized raiding have the path of Normal -> Heroic -> Mythic. They get higher ilevel gear at each level.

The idea that you need to complete the previous raid tier to participate in the current raid tier hasn't been in the game since Mists of Pandaria.

The only players this effects are those who really aren't meant to run LFR anyway. The organized raider.
10/17/2018 02:22 PMPosted by Panamos
I could care less about who has what gear and how they got it. But, this shows how gear progression is basically non existent in this game. The catchups every tier make it feel pointless.


If you could care less then please try to care less. Thank you.
10/17/2018 02:32 PMPosted by Shadows
10/17/2018 02:17 PMPosted by Espur
...
I think removing Normal and buffing LFR difficulty would be good. So what if they wipe a lot? That's the point of learning a new raid.

...
Most people farmed the ICC dungeons, as they dropped the same ilvl as Ulduar. I'm sure there were people running Ulduar and maybe Naxx 25, but largely there were better items in the dungeons.

Of course checking Wowhead might not be accurate, as y'know, the squish.


I'm not sure the ICC dungeons had drops for every slot. Even if they did, Ulduar gear had tier set bonuses and I'm pretty sure the trinkets were better.

Regardless, my point is people WERE still running the older raids. Once LFR was released in 4.3 people stopped doing this.


I’ll say this again. NO ONE farmed Ulduar for ICC! If anything, they did Trial 10/25 which still had some BiS trinkets. Nax and Ulduar were long forgotten by the time ICC came out. Why in the hell would anyone run Nax or Ulduar when better gear dropped from easier content like it was candy? Especially Ulduar... Good God. Once Trial dropped, most people said hell no to that nightmare.
I think a lot of people who are like "New raid invalidates old raid" seem to be missing something

the LFR tier is invalidating the previous heroic tier....

to put this in perspective:

Emerald Nightmare rewarded 835 LFR, and 865 heroic
Trial of Valor rewarded 840(?) LFR, and 870 heroic (855 for normal)

Notice in particular how trial of valor only has a 5 ilvl difference on heroic? not LFR matching the previous heroic tier?

This is a lot more than a small difference. Even Nighthold LFR only went up to 845. Even the NEXT tier did not surpass Emerald Heroic

This is actually a bigger difference than people are giving credit. Chances are if LFR rewards 370 gear, it would actually be gearing LFR players for the heroic 8.1 tier, and not simply a catchup mechanic.

Sites used:

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/the-emerald-nightmare-loot

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Trial_of_Valor

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Nighthold_(instance)

10/17/2018 02:22 PMPosted by Aehl
370 is what you get in a warfront.


No 340 is what you get in a war front. 370 is what you get from a "once per transfer" quest, essentially every 2 weeks. This is heavily different from being able to farm 370 gear.
10/17/2018 01:53 PMPosted by Onikage
LOL at some of these responses. My point was putting out 370 as baseline gear for an LFR completely invalidates the need to ever step inside Normal/Heroic Uldir, let alone makes the raid itself useless to players come 8.1, this is really sad. Not only this, it reinforces the concept that gear gets replaced so quickly that nothing really matters for gear. If this doesn't concern you, it will, and if it doesn't, then I'm glad we probably won't be playing together in Vanilla.


With all your wisdom, how do you think the item levels should scale in the 8.1 raid?

If 370 for the 8.1 LFR is too high, what should it be? Also if 370 for LFR is to high, what should the 8.1 raid Normal, Heroic and Mythic be at?
10/17/2018 02:31 PMPosted by Bicepcurl
You're not special kid. Dragenslaying has never required skill and your gear means nothing.

Uh huh. That's why there's four difficulties for players of varying skill levels. Are you going to use the "scripted" argument too? While hiding behind an alt?
10/17/2018 01:21 PMPosted by Akston
Yes. Typically a new raid tier quickly invalidates the last.


Didn't used to be this way a long time ago.

Honestly that's fine when we were receiving content at a slower pace.

But these rapid content releases really make the struggle of gearing up seem "not worth it". Especially when you mix in the RNG Struggle.
10/17/2018 02:31 PMPosted by Merikeeganky
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Um, yeah they were? In WOTLK A new guild has to build up to ICC, you can't just farm out a decent ilvl in 2 weeks from LFR and WQs and hop on in and expect to do well because the latest patch hit.


Ummm... no... you could be icc ready after a day spamming icc 5 mans, totc 5 mans and a trial raid pug or two. You obviously didn’t play wrath or you are just stupid.


Na, I played it. I just don't have your keen neckbeard memory. Thanks for clarifying.

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