AB+WG Remastered.........AV....

Battlegrounds
11/03/2018 01:25 PMPosted by Jadei
11/03/2018 01:20 PMPosted by Obsidius
It hasn't been an advantage since they introduced reinforcements. So without that, you have all the advantages...especially base design.


No, it actually became more of an advantage with resources. Without resources, alliance had an equally strong choke at DB bridge. With resources, that bridge is not even close to IB choke. Alliance have to sacrifice too many resources while horde sacrifice none.

Time to change IB choke.

Or change reinforcements.
11/03/2018 01:28 PMPosted by Obsidius
I love you alliance and your theoreticals. Tell me, when is the last time you actually ran into a choke at IB of more than 8 people? Hmm?

Every other AV.

Granted Horde don't often play the 40 person IB defense, the way they did all the time in prepatch. That's the real unbeatable strategy.
11/03/2018 11:02 PMPosted by Yarrow
11/03/2018 01:25 PMPosted by Jadei
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No, it actually became more of an advantage with resources. Without resources, alliance had an equally strong choke at DB bridge. With resources, that bridge is not even close to IB choke. Alliance have to sacrifice too many resources while horde sacrifice none.

Time to change IB choke.

Or change reinforcements.


Or fix IB. Kinda sad it's been an obvious advantage since scorched earth but Blizzard has ignored it. How long can they ignore it now that horde are using it again?
11/03/2018 11:08 PMPosted by Jadei
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Or change reinforcements.

Or fix IB. Kinda sad it's been an obvious advantage since scorched earth but Blizzard has ignored it. How long can they ignore it now that horde are using it again?

It wouldn't be that much better than the Dun Baldar bridge if it weren't for the fact that Alliance loses 200 reinforcements because they have to sacrifice two bunkers.

Plus, I don't trust Blizzard to do a fix without breaking things in other ways, the way every change to AV in the past has. It's a complicated battleground, and changes often have unexpected effects. A change to remove the objectives' effect on reinforcements they might be able to pull off without disturbing things too much.

I've won the majority of my AVs since prepatch. Find me in game and we can talk about how.
...
Or fix IB. Kinda sad it's been an obvious advantage since scorched earth but Blizzard has ignored it. How long can they ignore it now that horde are using it again?

It wouldn't be that much better than the Dun Baldar bridge if it weren't for the fact that Alliance loses 200 reinforcements because they have to sacrifice two bunkers.

Plus, I don't trust Blizzard to do a fix without breaking things in other ways, the way every change to AV in the past has. It's a complicated battleground, and changes often have unexpected effects. A change to remove the objectives' effect on reinforcements they might be able to pull off without disturbing things too much.

I've won the majority of my AVs since prepatch. Find me in game and we can talk about how.


Alliance sacrifice two bunkers, a captain and their mine if they're doing a bridge defense. That's 300 resources and a mine that's giving horde resources.

I've played a lot of premade vs. premade and wargame AV's. I know how strong IB choke is. I've seen it in organized groups and it's harder to overcome in disorganized groups.
11/03/2018 11:22 PMPosted by Jadei
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It wouldn't be that much better than the Dun Baldar bridge if it weren't for the fact that Alliance loses 200 reinforcements because they have to sacrifice two bunkers.

Plus, I don't trust Blizzard to do a fix without breaking things in other ways, the way every change to AV in the past has. It's a complicated battleground, and changes often have unexpected effects. A change to remove the objectives' effect on reinforcements they might be able to pull off without disturbing things too much.

I've won the majority of my AVs since prepatch. Find me in game and we can talk about how.

Alliance sacrifice two bunkers, a captain and their mine if they're doing a bridge defense. That's 300 resources and a mine that's giving horde resources.

Sure. But if those objectives didn't affect reinforcements, sacrificing them wouldn't matter in a win on reinforcements.

I've played a lot of premade vs. premade and wargame AV's. I know how strong IB choke is. I've seen it in organized groups and it's harder to overcome in disorganized groups.

Both sides are disorganized in single queue AV. Although, I would agree that Alliance needs more organization to win, because our winning strategies are more complex.
The fact of the matter is the IB choke takes no effect to set up. It's been used since 2007 with pugs.

I've been in pugs that have done it mid Legion when Horde played to win for about two months and after the prepatch. You literally have the team group up at the choke and farm kills till you're bored.

You push out once in a while to recap IBT or defend Galv. In a Alliance pug it's very difficult to break.

Adding a way up through IB GY gives the Alliance another way up and forces the Horde to split their defense.

It's a simple fix. SH GY has two ways around it. Why not IB GY?
11/04/2018 12:10 AMPosted by Yarrow
Sure. But if those objectives didn't affect reinforcements, sacrificing them wouldn't matter in a win on reinforcements.


What? They 100% do matter in a game of attrition. Losing half your resources and a mine is a big deficit to overcome. When the only way to win was to kill the general, the bridge defense was much stronger.
so far have a 100% winrate in AV as horde, just tell the pugs to stack at IBGY and it is a free win. Doesn't help that the alliance only choke points is extremely costly and can be negated by "cleverly using the terrain".
Im sorry but if you check the damage stats so far in BfA for AV. The alliance archers going across the bridge have done more dmg to horde players then their actual boss. While Drek has done the most dmg to Alliance players. This means that Horde doesnt make it even remotely close to the boss as much as alliance does. This imbalance actually happened when they took the boss mob away from SF.
11/04/2018 07:15 AMPosted by Drjoker
Im sorry but if you check the damage stats so far in BfA for AV. The alliance archers going across the bridge have done more dmg to horde players then their actual boss. While Drek has done the most dmg to Alliance players. This means that Horde doesnt make it even remotely close to the boss as much as alliance does. This imbalance actually happened when they took the boss mob away from SF.
This is the only good point in defense of horde. It still doesn’t change the advantage an IB choke has.
11/04/2018 07:15 AMPosted by Drjoker
Im sorry but if you check the damage stats so far in BfA for AV. The alliance archers going across the bridge have done more dmg to horde players then their actual boss.


Where is this information?
IB chokepoint has been around since Vanilla AV but now in 2018 it has become a problem and THE cause of imbalance.

How come no one was crying when it was a race to the boss? Oh because it didn’t effect you back then.

Adapt people.
11/04/2018 08:09 AMPosted by Threauxm
How come no one was crying when it was a race to the boss? Oh because it didn’t effect you back then.


https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/11836293522?page=1

Post 1 + 2, time stamps.
11/04/2018 08:09 AMPosted by Threauxm
IB chokepoint has been around since Vanilla AV but now in 2018 it has become a problem and THE cause of imbalance.

How come no one was crying when it was a race to the boss? Oh because it didn’t effect you back then.

Adapt people.
It’s been a problem every pre-patch when npcs are tuned to the next expansions level... I wonder why?
Whenever I see AV pop up as alliance, I just leave to save me time at this point.
glad they fixed wsg i have lose the count rated bgs i lost in legion thanks to to demonhunter jumping in the air exploiting some bug invisible floor in the air.
What time of day are you guys playing AV?

I haven't seen a turtle match since the opening weeks of BFA.

Even in sub 120 brackets people are pulling final NPC with one tower up.
All aside if that did something as little as put the boss mob back into SF I would be fine and call it a day. This whole point was they were stating they wanted to geographically balance AB and WSG and I will say that SF without a boss mob is easier to take then SH is and its on an almost straight path for the alliance from point A to point B. SH is 100pct easier to defend since alliance can sit on top of mountains and it is surrounded by downward hills and a bridge, while the hordes second closest GY cap for the alliance is in a wide open area without any defendable terrain. The Hordes aid station is located slightly further away then the alliance one but that part doesnt even bother me as much. This whole post was originally to debate the actual layout of the map doesn't favor horde as much as alliance and it should be better balanced.

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