Will Alliance Players Quit Due To BfA?

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So many people have already quit and will continue to quit for reasons that have nothing to do with the story

The story is honestly the least of their worries this expansion, and that's saying something

I don't know if things have ever looked this bad for WoW
You can quit over the story once we're done!
A lot of horde players have already quit as well, it's why old blood is so hard to see at the moment.
I've been considering unsubing for a while now. Still on the fence at the moment. However, Sylvanas's fate and in fact the Horde's fate in the story was never a factor for me beyond wanting players who identified with their factions to have a good story.

In general, my take on the story is that Blizzard wanted an escallation in the conflict between the two faction for a total war. Unfortunately, Blizzards executation in creating that total war made the begining of the conflict feel one sided and without much nuance. That lack of nuance and lack of directly being able to identify with the factions as they fought hindered players immersion in the story.

The sad thing is that it didn't need to be this way. Both factions had perfectly legimate reasons to fight each other without Sylvanas attacking Teldrasil. If Blizzard wanted a faction war why not start by easing into it with a territorial dispute over Gilneas, Arathi, or Ashenvale. Starting with small battles between the factions in those territories in a manner similar to the legion invasions. From there build up tensions with new commanders on both sides rising to prominence calling for more aggressive tactics and both factions looking for ways to rebuild their navies after losing so many ships following the war with the Legion.

In short OP, I would not unsub because of Sylvanas or the Horde as an Alliance player. As a World of Warcraft player the only story reasons I will unsub for is I believe the overall story of the game no longer interests me or if Blizzard does not improve the quality of both factions stories within this expansion soon.
11/09/2018 12:02 AMPosted by Etheldald
Can you tell me that the horde deserve to exist after that?
"but is survival!" no, that is evil for the sake of being evil, and evil should be exterminated like any tumor should.


One persons "evil" is another person's justification for defense. More on that note Warcraft isn't a game depicting utopian societies nor should it enter a scenario as such.

We are playing an video game escapist fantasy. Check your RL bias at the door.
I don't know. This is like par for the course Horde being Horde aggressive no sense in their thinking or reason to start fights. Almost like a kid trying to start stuff for attention.

That's how it has been for years and years. I didn't quit then. I won't quit now.
11/09/2018 04:14 AMPosted by Vivette
We are playing an video game escapist fantasy. Check your RL bias at the door.


oh i know, but even if it is my RL bias or my character thinking that, would that be wrong? because i can apply the same argument here

11/09/2018 04:14 AMPosted by Vivette
One persons "evil" is another person's justification for defense.


then i would say that blizzard has done a pretty solid job selling me the other faction as antagonist, maybe, too well.
11/06/2018 05:02 PMPosted by Pyrogar
Why would blue players want to quit?


Well, a lot of the reasons Reignac listed.

Also poor gameplay loops and unsatisfying reward structure. D'ya see these robes I'm wearing? Been wearing them for going on three months now, and I've probably disenchanted about eight higher ilevel robes because they didn't have the Preheat trait, which is pretty much required for Fire to be even half decent.

And I'm tired. I'm tired of the multi-billion dollar corporation that employs dozens of professionals in their field who have been making this game for fourteen years(hereafter referred to as "Blizzard," but assume I'm typing out that entire spiel) never being able to get class and item balance right.

I'm tired of having to yell at Blizzard to not make basic mistakes like putting Night Elves who died in Darnassus on the shores of Darkshore.

I'm tired of having to spend a !@#$ing month yelling at Blizzard to coach them into making a scenario that's supposed to be and was fully written to be an Alliance "awesome moment" into something that's even halfway decent and not just one writer's fanfic about his pet character. And even then, in its current half-decent state, presumably said writer throws in an immature dig at us and a free toy to the Horde in order to soothe his butthurt.

For that matter, I'm tired of pet characters from Blizzard in general, whether that be Thrall, Natty, Sylvie, Jaina, Baine or Anduin.

The only balm I have at the moment is that the change of CEO seems like it may have effected a change in culture at Blizzard. Suddenly we're seeing quests being rewritten to accommodate feedback. Suddenly surveys are going out to people who have quit. Suddenly 8.1 is put back into the oven for a bit more baking and improvement.

My core complaint comes down to "Blizzard doesn't give a %^-* so why should i?" Right now my sub is set to run out the week 8.1 is released. I may gamble an extra $15 to give it a shot, but Blizzard has to impress the !@#$ out of me between now and December 11th.
11/07/2018 07:06 AMPosted by Pellex
I don't deny that 5.2 was bad and annoying for Alliance players. But it is no longer uniquely unbalanced. The scales are even on that one.

No, they're not. Because as much as you may have hated questing in an area that had draenei ruins in it, the questing and story was neutral. It wasn't Alliance questing, and it wasn't Horde questing. Both factions played the same storyline, with the same NPCs, the same quests, the same Invasions scenarios, and the same endgame dungeon and raid. It was the exact same content for both factions.

That's not the case with Robo-cat. The Horde ran around with the Horde heroes from Founding of Durotar, in a questline that liberated Razor Hill and began the Darkspear Rebellion. The Alliance controlled Robo-cat for a quest where we let a Troll out of a cage, then got talked down to by Vol'jin after we volunteered to help his rebellion. 5.3 and 7.3 are not comparable in the slightest.

BTW, you said 5.2 by accident, but I do want to point out that 5.2, The Thunder King, is probably my favorite patch in all of WoW. I found it to be nearly perfect, with my one complaint being I wish there had been a 5-man dungeon. Otherwise, I still think of it as the high water mark for patches. Which is what made the complete and utter dreck of Robo-cat in the next patch all the worse.

EDIT: I forgot about the actual topic of the thread. No, I won't quit, because I still enjoy the actual gameplay that I play for (mount collecting, achievement hunting, casual raiding). The story is absolute crap though, and it's actually made me realize I'm pretty close to no longer being a fan of the Alliance. The absolute joy I felt when Tyrande told Anduin off and went to fight in Darkshore on her own is what made me realize it. I still love the Night Elves, of course. And the other Alliance races, including Humans. The organization itself, though? Not really. I have zero interest in Anduin Wrynn's Holy Empire of Peace and Love.
11/09/2018 04:14 AMPosted by Vivette
11/09/2018 12:02 AMPosted by Etheldald
Can you tell me that the horde deserve to exist after that?
"but is survival!" no, that is evil for the sake of being evil, and evil should be exterminated like any tumor should.


One persons "evil" is another person's justification for defense. More on that note Warcraft isn't a game depicting utopian societies nor should it enter a scenario as such.

We are playing an video game escapist fantasy. Check your RL bias at the door.


You can say "lul it's just a game" all you want, I still think defending actual genocide is messed up, be it fiction or reality.

Also, more moral relativism BS.
Robocat > Aethas's Muffin

It even has a cooler, shorter name.
11/09/2018 04:14 AMPosted by Vivette
11/09/2018 12:02 AMPosted by Etheldald
Can you tell me that the horde deserve to exist after that?
"but is survival!" no, that is evil for the sake of being evil, and evil should be exterminated like any tumor should.


One persons "evil" is another person's justification for defense. More on that note Warcraft isn't a game depicting utopian societies nor should it enter a scenario as such.

We are playing an video game escapist fantasy. Check your RL bias at the door.


Warcraft, like all Blizzard games, does have morality at the center of its narrative. Utopia no, but their narrative is grounded in parable and allegory.
You can say "lul it's just a game" all you want, I still think defending actual genocide is messed up, be it fiction or reality.

Also, more moral relativism BS.


Right.

What is your answer to Moral Relativism? Everyone taking your opinions as gospel? Believe it or not, people disagree on what is Moral.

No. You wont believe it. You live your life pretending your thoughts are universal law that we all know at birth...
11/09/2018 07:17 AMPosted by Cursewords
You can say "lul it's just a game" all you want, I still think defending actual genocide is messed up, be it fiction or reality.

Also, more moral relativism BS.


Right.

What is your answer to Moral Relativism? Everyone taking your opinions as gospel? Believe it or not, people disagree on what is Moral.

No. You wont believe it. You live your life pretending your thoughts are universal law that we all know at birth...


Moral relativism is a tool used by edgelords (and pseudointellectuals) to justify anything they want, no matter how horrible it is. It's garbage.
11/09/2018 07:17 AMPosted by Cursewords
...

Right.

What is your answer to Moral Relativism? Everyone taking your opinions as gospel? Believe it or not, people disagree on what is Moral.

No. You wont believe it. You live your life pretending your thoughts are universal law that we all know at birth...


Moral relativism is a tool used by edgelords (and pseudointellectuals) to justify anything they want, no matter how horrible it is. It's garbage.

This right here
11/09/2018 07:17 AMPosted by Cursewords
...

Right.

What is your answer to Moral Relativism? Everyone taking your opinions as gospel? Believe it or not, people disagree on what is Moral.

No. You wont believe it. You live your life pretending your thoughts are universal law that we all know at birth...


Moral relativism is a tool used by edgelords (and pseudointellectuals) to justify anything they want, no matter how horrible it is. It's garbage.


Right.

You repeated yourself without answering. Not that you are obliged to answer me, but you quoted my question...

We get you don't like different opinions and that you imagine the universe is in perpetual agreement with you. You made that plain.

So to repeat myself... What is your answer to Moral Relativism? Some universal moral code that is ingrained into all existence and universally agreed upon without deviation?

That is foolish nonsense as well.
11/09/2018 06:54 AMPosted by Tilgath
11/07/2018 07:06 AMPosted by Pellex
I don't deny that 5.2 was bad and annoying for Alliance players. But it is no longer uniquely unbalanced. The scales are even on that one.

No, they're not. Because as much as you may have hated questing in an area that had draenei ruins in it, the questing and story was neutral.

1. I didn't especially hate it. If I truly hated playing in areas devoted entirely to Alliance races, themes, settings, and heroes, I'd have quit long ago. (Besides, I mained Alliance in Legion. I haven't actually done Argus on a Horde character yet, and I don't see any special reason to bother.)

2. See this for the "It was neutral!" part:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769699324?page=4#post-69
Just because both sides do the same quests doesn't mean it's relevant to the story of both sides. Plenty of Horde races had grudges against the Legion that were not given closure in the Argus zone, while the Draenei's story with them was.

That's not the case with Robo-cat. The Horde ran around with the Horde heroes from Founding of Durotar, in a questline that liberated Razor Hill and began the Darkspear Rebellion.

I'm genuinely curious. Would you have been happier if you'd done the same quests as the Horde, or roughly the same, with Horde heroes commanding you?

The Alliance controlled Robo-cat for a quest where we let a Troll out of a cage, then got talked down to by Vol'jin after we volunteered to help his rebellion.

You had the option to force Vol'jin to beg for your help, you know. Nobody begged me to help out any of the Alliance heroes I worked with in Legion. They just assumed I'd be on board with it.
2. See this for the "It was neutral!" part:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769699324?page=4#post-69
Just because both sides do the same quests doesn't mean it's relevant to the story of both sides. Plenty of Horde races had grudges against the Legion that were not given closure in the Argus zone, while the Draenei's story with them was.

Ending the Legion is relevant to both sides. It's been the big, overall antagonist of the franchise since it was fully revealed in WC3. Of course there was going to be draenei stuff since it took place on the draenei homeworld, and the eredar have been the leadership of the Legion since before the draenei as we know them existed.

It's like the quests I did for Go'el back in Cata. It was the literal founder of the current Horde I was taking orders from, who had just stepped down from being Warchief like 6 days earlier, doing a bunch of shaman-y things in an expansion that had a lot to do with the Elements and shamanism. That didn't make it Horde content, though. Anymore than seeing Malfurion in Mt. Hyjal made that Alliance content. In both cases it was a specifically neutral affair, with the Earthen Ring and Guardians of Hyjal. It's the same situation on Argus with the Army of the Light and Argussian Reach, both of which were neutral organizations where faction was irrelevant.

I'm genuinely curious. Would you have been happier if you'd done the same quests as the Horde, or roughly the same, with Horde heroes commanding you?

Honestly? If they treated me with as much respect and courtesy as the neutral heroes treated all of us on Argus, yes. I'd rather Go'el ask me respectfully to aid in the defeat of our common enemy, and then take part in a similar questline where I'm helping start up the Rebellion than do the stupid Robo-cat that was utterly meaningless and empty.

You had the option to force Vol'jin to beg for your help, you know. Nobody begged me to help out any of the Alliance heroes I worked with in Legion. They just assumed I'd be on board with it

We had the option to force him to beg only if we also took the option of him laughing in our faces and threatening us with slaughter and undeath for asking why we should help. And yeah, people assumed you'd be on board with stopping the Burning Legion from destroying the planet. That's a bit different from a Horde civil war.
My problem is.... I'm bored. WoW no longer interests me like it used to.

Won't blame my job, because I was working full time through most of Legion too, and it is my FAVORITE expansion.

Since then, they've mucked up a lot of the story, and the leveling mechanics, and the reputation mechanics. The game is just not as fun as it used to be.

As for the story? I kind of don't care. Blizzard doesn't know what it wants to do. It also is incapable of clearly explaining its goals, or even the goals of the characters involved. This feels less like a story and more like some guys playing darts in a pool hall and throwing together a bunch of ideas based off of random determination.
I hope sylvanas just lightforges and turns kerrigan soon or gets the loot bat. These discussions on her get tedious.

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