Enh "buffs"

Shaman
https://www.wowhead.com/news=288548/upcoming-changes-to-enhancement-shamans-on-ptr

I'm not sure what to make of this. What do you all think?
I think its crap. Our talent setup was fluid. BIG nerf to maelstorm gen on lighting shield to 0 and BIG nerf to ffw 100% in total on ffw.

Popped some pretty numbers on some crapper talents, but you'll never use OC, not worth the cd, doesnt hit hard enough.
buffs? I just see reworking talents, making ones that work to turn into crap and make ones that were crap to get buffed but no changes to our def abilities or our mana issue in PvP. But they say in quotes to "Do not panic; we are not lowering all of your damage and healing!" mhmmm
Overcharge being viable seems like a great change to me. Earthen spikes influence on our rotation was just brought up to a need and not an option.

These changes increase the value of the active talents, something I've been advocating for since the beginning. Skillful play will beore rewarding and that's always a plus.

The malstorm gen on lightning shield was part of our capping issue and seems like a positive change also.
The buff to crash lightning seems overkill while our cleave is already a strong suit of the class, but I'm not going to complain about it at all.

Blizz hit the nail on it's head with these changes imho
These aren't bad changes but they don't really fix anything
Kekunbound clearly works for blizzard.
11/09/2018 06:31 PMPosted by Kekunbound

The malstorm gen on lightning shield was part of our capping issue and seems like a positive change also.


I disagree. The maelstrom generation (and possibly damage) should have been nerfed, not deleted. The period of higher resource gaining and spending is what made this talent cool. Getting rid of the generation makes it a passive damage proc with no interaction.
11/09/2018 05:55 PMPosted by Hoodwinks
I think its crap. Our talent setup was fluid. BIG nerf to maelstorm gen on lighting shield to 0 and BIG nerf to ffw 100% in total on ffw.

Popped some pretty numbers on some crapper talents, but you'll never use OC, not worth the cd, doesnt hit hard enough.


I knew Forceful Winds would get nerfed to 80% at some point, I think that was obvious. You also need to consider that they may have just got into looking at Enh. These changes may not see much, but I do feel confident to know that Blizzard is acknowledging us in somewhat of a positive light.
11/09/2018 06:31 PMPosted by Kekunbound
Overcharge being viable seems like a great change to me. Earthen spikes influence on our rotation was just brought up to a need and not an option.

These changes increase the value of the active talents, something I've been advocating for since the beginning. Skillful play will beore rewarding and that's always a plus.

The malstorm gen on lightning shield was part of our capping issue and seems like a positive change also.
The buff to crash lightning seems overkill while our cleave is already a strong suit of the class, but I'm not going to complain about it at all.

Blizz hit the nail on it's head with these changes imho


Capping isn't an issue, it's when not having maelstrom thats an issue. The only thing you make sure not to waste is GCDs when any SS is available. This change is going to lead to more droughts and slower game play.
11/09/2018 06:41 PMPosted by Thorandric
11/09/2018 06:31 PMPosted by Kekunbound

The malstorm gen on lightning shield was part of our capping issue and seems like a positive change also.


I disagree. The maelstrom generation (and possibly damage) should have been nerfed, not deleted. The period of higher resource gaining and spending is what made this talent cool. Getting rid of the generation makes it a passive damage proc with no interaction.


Yeah the other options are going to be better now, don't get me wrong.

I just think the gen didn't feel good on shield when it caused you to cap out most of the time.
I see HH moving up and primal primer, totem mastery being required and possibly doggo's being goto for every situation. Lvl 90 row at least offers flexibility, CS for stationary adds, FoA for movement and sundering for versatility between add burst and ST. They need to address CL cleave not working with ascendance still and survivability. The 5% dmg buff is nice though if it isn't referring to the already applied 5%
11/09/2018 06:41 PMPosted by Thorandric
11/09/2018 06:31 PMPosted by Kekunbound

The malstorm gen on lightning shield was part of our capping issue and seems like a positive change also.


I disagree. The maelstrom generation (and possibly damage) should have been nerfed, not deleted. The period of higher resource gaining and spending is what made this talent cool. Getting rid of the generation makes it a passive damage proc with no interaction.


In regards to lightning shield maelstorm change.... it was the one thing that jumped out as negative but hard to define. I have been looking at my logs.

Lightning shield generation of maelstorm for me (pve raid) is a consistent 10-15% of Maelsorm total generation in both short and long fights. It is almost NEVER wasted Maelstorm which is good. ALSO per my logs I never received the full 100 over 10 per proc of overcharge which is bad. Regardless... our weapon, rockbiter, and feral spirit will not be the 3.

My thoughts:
If the cap is higher now on maelstorm this should be a non issue. Almost every fight I waste more maelstorm then lightnig shield generates. This is not due to good or bad rotation. It is proc spamming generating faster than I can spend. I sometimes can go dry but lightning shield never helped with that anyway. I THINK.. HOPE the higher cap and light shield change is a wash at worst and probably better for us.
11/09/2018 07:38 PMPosted by Phatymcdaddy
11/09/2018 06:31 PMPosted by Kekunbound
Overcharge being viable seems like a great change to me. Earthen spikes influence on our rotation was just brought up to a need and not an option.

These changes increase the value of the active talents, something I've been advocating for since the beginning. Skillful play will beore rewarding and that's always a plus.

The malstorm gen on lightning shield was part of our capping issue and seems like a positive change also.
The buff to crash lightning seems overkill while our cleave is already a strong suit of the class, but I'm not going to complain about it at all.

Blizz hit the nail on it's head with these changes imho


Capping isn't an issue, it's when not having maelstrom thats an issue. The only thing you make sure not to waste is GCDs when any SS is available. This change is going to lead to more droughts and slower game play.


Once you get above 20-25% haste it's pretty rare to run dry man. Just my exp but you know some !@#$ is subjective
11/09/2018 05:55 PMPosted by Hoodwinks
I think its crap. Our talent setup was fluid. BIG nerf to maelstorm gen on lighting shield to 0 and BIG nerf to ffw 100% in total on ffw.

Popped some pretty numbers on some crapper talents, but you'll never use OC, not worth the cd, doesnt hit hard enough.
Fluid? To me it looks like a fine addition to the unused talents up to our cookie cutter spec.
I like how they took 5% out of the Cookie Cutter spec and put it in baseline.
I still think Shamans get hit hard by the Hybrid tax and our talent tree still feels cluttered but at least now the talents that we do have are more in line with another for usefulness.
11/09/2018 09:58 PMPosted by Kekunbound
11/09/2018 07:38 PMPosted by Phatymcdaddy
...

Capping isn't an issue, it's when not having maelstrom thats an issue. The only thing you make sure not to waste is GCDs when any SS is available. This change is going to lead to more droughts and slower game play.


Once you get above 20-25% haste it's pretty rare to run dry man. Just my exp but you know some !@#$ is subjective
with the LS nerf those run dry moments are going to occur a lot more.
11/09/2018 09:58 PMPosted by Kekunbound
Once you get above 20-25% haste it's pretty rare to run dry man. Just my exp but you know some !@#$ is subjective


You can expect to still run low/dry on mealstrom at 25% haste (base+array) but I consider it a small issue and LS mealstrom is a small loss... (I hope).

Lightning storm change imo is not going to matter much when we cap higher but at the moment the benefit it gives is noticeable. Its only 10%ish of total generated in raid but look at just one of my logs below.

Below Log shows my mealstrom levels during a 1 room Mother heroic zerg. Top portion show LS overcharge procs. At 1:00, 1:30, 2:15 LS overcharge helped pull me up from low generation/levels. I do not think we are losing much if the higher cap reduces lows but the benefit it gives/gave cannot be denied now.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DBkLR31xFPCKwcWp#fight=3&type=resources&source=12&pins=0%24Separate%24%23909049%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24135970782.0.0.Shaman%24false%24273323&spell=111
11/09/2018 10:29 PMPosted by Kath
11/09/2018 09:58 PMPosted by Kekunbound
Once you get above 20-25% haste it's pretty rare to run dry man. Just my exp but you know some !@#$ is subjective


You can expect to still run low/dry on mealstrom at 25% haste (base+array) but I consider it a small issue and LS mealstrom is a small loss... (I hope).

Lightning storm change imo is not going to matter much when we cap higher but at the moment the benefit it gives is noticeable. Its only 10%ish of total generated in raid but look at just one of my logs below.

Log shows my mealstrom levels during a 1 room Mother heroic zerg. Top portion show LS overcharge procs. At 1:00, 1:30, 2:15 LS overcharge helped pull me up from low generation/levels. I do not think we are losing much if the higher cap reduces lows but the benefit it gives/gave cannot be denied now.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DBkLR31xFPCKwcWp#fight=3&type=resources&source=12&pins=0%24Separate%24%23909049%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24135970782.0.0.Shaman%24false%24273323&spell=111


Not trying to point a finger or anything but checking out your armory your haste% is pretty low man. I think your down time is largely because of that. 20% before archive is the real tipping point in my experience.

I'm not arguing that we benefited from the gains with lightning shield. I'm just advocating for more control over our resources. I completely understand that other people have different expectations and concerns about the spec and can only voice my opinion but when a spec is high variance it feels less rewarding to play and I feel that lightning shield made us more dependent on storm strike procs. I understand our spec has some intrinsic RNG built into it but removing some of our reliance on that is an improvement in my eyes.
11/09/2018 10:58 PMPosted by Kekunbound
Not trying to point a finger or anything but checking out your armory your haste% is pretty low man. I think your down time is largely because of that. 20% before archive is the real tipping point in my experience.


I understand and agree sub 20% haste hurts. I can sit at 15-19 but in raid with 7-8x reorigination array we have +525-600 haste ~8.8%. 25%-27% haste is pretty common (edit: if weekly raider) before any other proc buffs.

Again agree with you on the loss and rng bs we have to face. In my craziness, I assume developers think our haste scaling will potentially limit downtime and rng and that has caused a late adjustment. Either way I expect a few more changes and hopefully a better spec/class. Hope.
would like to have seen a baseline dot and buff to Lava Lash, other than that good changes.
Honestly, I'm surprised we even got this. It doesn't really fix any of the core problems with enh but I'm just happy to see changes.

At least at this point, I wont feel boxed in to one specific cookie cutter build.

The rockbiter/landslide/earthen spike combo might be worth taking. Or Hot Hand/Totem Mastery/Elemental Spirits/Primal Primer. Or stick with what has been used up till this point.

Overcharge might be worth it, depending on maelstrom generation. Probably with rockbiter/landslide. Hailstorm still feels unappealing.

Crashing storm or fury of air still don't seem worth it, especially with sundering's interrupt/stun for M+.

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