[SMALL SPOILER] Tyrande confronts Anduin

Story Forum
11/11/2018 06:54 PMPosted by Miraji
11/11/2018 06:40 PMPosted by Kurogasa
Wasn't that all Turalyon's forces though? So, shouldn't Velen still have his own with him?

The Exodar was also assaulted by the Legion before the Argus campaign even began and judging by the amount of bodies you see during the quest there were a fair amount of casualties even though Velen still managed to protect a sizeable chunk of the population.

Regardless it's very very wierd that blizzard seems to have completely ignored Azuremyst/Bloodmyst and the Draenei given their proximity to Teldrassil. The Horde forces don't bother with it, and the Draenei don't appear to help their Night Elves neighbors while their lands are being invaded.

Was this covered somewhere? Have I missed lore that explains wtf was going on with the Draenei during all of this?


It would have been nice to see some help from the Draenei but I guess they sent meant to be included in that part of the story. On another note it seems that the relationship between the Night Elves and and Draenei, or at least should be a closer relationship is looked over. Wasn't it the Night Elves that first embraced the Draenei and offered them help?
11/11/2018 06:54 PMPosted by Miraji
11/11/2018 06:40 PMPosted by Kurogasa
Wasn't that all Turalyon's forces though? So, shouldn't Velen still have his own with him?

The Exodar was also assaulted by the Legion before the Argus campaign even began and judging by the amount of bodies you see during the quest there were a fair amount of casualties even though Velen still managed to protect a sizeable chunk of the population.

Regardless it's very very wierd that blizzard seems to have completely ignored Azuremyst/Bloodmyst and the Draenei given their proximity to Teldrassil. The Horde forces don't bother with it, and the Draenei don't appear to help their Night Elves neighbors while their lands are being invaded.

Was this covered somewhere? Have I missed lore that explains wtf was going on with the Draenei during all of this?


It was covered in that part of the book where they also explained how the Alliance got their forces to Tirsfal Glade, assembled their siege towers uncontested, and sacked Brill.


It was covered in that part of the book where they also explained how the Alliance got their forces to Tirsfal Glade, assembled their siege towers uncontested, and sacked Brill.


The context of the alliance side of the event makes it seems as though there had already been savage fighting in Tirsfal Glade before the player character is called to the front.

I believe they mention something about it being the third or fourth wave being sent in. When you land on the shore the landscape is completely devastated by war. So clearly The Horde fought tooth and nail for every inch. Including Brill.

The player characters just weren't invited to those parts of the battle.
11/11/2018 04:07 PMPosted by Kaileena
I usually don't watch or post about spoilers, but I'm done with the war campaign and I don't feel like doing high level mythic+ or a raid yet. So frankly until 8.1 comes out I'm bored off my @ss lol. That said I only want to talk about this scenario, please don't spoil anything that comes next please and thank you.
https://youtu.be/iMzv7vAgNkU

I LOVED this. Finally we get to see Tyrande act like not just one of the Alliance leaders but the leader of her people. We have rarely seen that from her in game, so this was very satisfying. Anduin being confronted by not just Tyrande but Sira, (I assume that is) Maiev, and Shandris must be intimidating, seeing that they are thousands of years his senior. Things that I loved besides the confrontation itself...

1. Maiev's righteous fury. In the past she's been a bit unhinged, but here she is totally in control and pissed!

2.Shandris FINALLY got a custom voice model. Now if she got a new character model to match because this one is bland.

3. People give Tyrande (or blizz) grief about Tyrande's accent. Tyrande sounds like a wise black woman straight out of the Motherland and I AM HERE FOR IT!!! Also I loved how she strolled out of that room like Naomi Campbell lmao.

4. Genn is the MVP, I'm so glad he stepped up the way he did.

I understand Anduin's point here. Trying to stop Sylvanas is really testing him as a leader. The toll of this war is rising on both sides and he doesn't want to spread out too far for risk of stretching valuable resources and soilders. So objectively his point is totally understandable. That said, I thought I heard that at the end of the raid (that I haven't done) the Alliance dealt the Horde a large blow?

However, Tyrande and her people have lost everything, in service to the Alliance. They have been in Stormwind, for what I assume is a few months at this point. With the war going the way it is, there is no telling when they will receive help to reclaim their home. Tyrande's decision may seem rash and it may be, but her people are owed and if the horde remain there too long they might not ever be able to take it back.

I do feel bad for Anduin though,he is trying to juggle the all of this while still feeling responsible for Teldrasill which honestly isn't fair. I've never blamed him for Teldrasill. Both he and Tyrande acted in what they assumed was good intelligence. The real person responsible is Matthias Shaw his stupidity cost the Night Elves everything.


AT LAST! Some inner conflict on the perfect, goody two shoes Alliance!

Could it be that we're finally having an...actual development? Some humanity? Some...actual FLAWS? God I hope so...
11/11/2018 10:28 PMPosted by Razzat

AT LAST! Some inner conflict on the perfect, goody two shoes Alliance!

Could it be that we're finally having an...actual development? Some humanity? Some...actual FLAWS? God I hope so...


They've had conflict before. Varian initially refused to let the Gilnean into the alliance during a summit that Tryande and Malfurion hosted. His refusal turned the whole thing sour. Even before that the 3 dwarvin clans couldn't even get along. There has been conflict, just not shown in the game much. But I agree it is nice to see for the sake of development.
11/11/2018 05:27 PMPosted by Demontê
With the Kaldorei and Worgen splitting off to retake Darkshore
Hey here's a wild question: Why does our splitting only hurt us? Do the Horde have infinite troops to field to all corners of the globe?
11/11/2018 10:44 PMPosted by Kaileena
11/11/2018 10:28 PMPosted by Razzat

AT LAST! Some inner conflict on the perfect, goody two shoes Alliance!

Could it be that we're finally having an...actual development? Some humanity? Some...actual FLAWS? God I hope so...


They've had conflict before. Varian initially refused to let the Gilnean into the alliance during a summit that Tryande and Malfurion hosted. His refusal turned the whole thing sour. Even before that the 3 dwarvin clans couldn't even get along. There has been conflict, just not shown in the game much. But I agree it is nice to see for the sake of development.


Faction conflict inth e alliance always gets marginalized by Human Potential.
11/12/2018 12:01 AMPosted by Serevèn
Hey here's a wild question: Why does our splitting only hurt us? Do the Horde have infinite troops to field to all corners of the globe?


They never answer this. For some reason its logical for Horde to be every where at once with infinite back up, but the moment the Alliance sends some troops to help out in Kalimdor we are instantly suppose to be weakened. It's non sense.
11/11/2018 10:44 PMPosted by Kaileena
11/11/2018 10:28 PMPosted by Razzat

AT LAST! Some inner conflict on the perfect, goody two shoes Alliance!

Could it be that we're finally having an...actual development? Some humanity? Some...actual FLAWS? God I hope so...


They've had conflict before. Varian initially refused to let the Gilnean into the alliance during a summit that Tryande and Malfurion hosted. His refusal turned the whole thing sour. Even before that the 3 dwarvin clans couldn't even get along. There has been conflict, just not shown in the game much. But I agree it is nice to see for the sake of development.


Yeah on Cataclysm, like 8 years ago! And it wasn't even in the game because somehow Blizzard thinks putting essential plot elements outside the game is good storytelling. The Horde on the other hand has inner conflict nearly every expansion.

It was about time Alliance stopped acting like a bunch of perfect boyscouts and start having some inner conflict again.

People complain the Alliance is boring from a storytelling perspective, it's because of that. Up until now nothing ever shook this Alliance, no one ever challenged the human king, no one ever said "Screw this! I'm doing this my way" like Tyrande did for nearly a decade.

If the Alliance wants story, it needs FLAWS to overcome, it needs CONFLICT, it needs humanity, if the faction is so perfect and everyone is so bff towards each other then...no conflict, no conflict means no drama, no drama means no story.

I'm glad Blizzard finally got the memo
11/12/2018 04:14 AMPosted by Razzat
People complain the Alliance is boring from a storytelling perspective, it's because of that. Up until now nothing ever shook this Alliance, no one ever challenged the human king, no one ever said "Screw this! I'm doing this my way" like Tyrande did for nearly a decade.


didn't jaina leaved the alliance the previous xpac because she was blinded by revenge? and she also threatened to make the kirin tor leave the alliance in war crimes? or how she acted on her own on the purge?

and didn't genn attacked sylvanas more for revenge? isn't that a flaw?
but i guess that it doesn't count.

but hey man, if that is boring to you is all about personal tastes.
the alliance acts united for a reason.
11/12/2018 04:35 AMPosted by Etheldald


didn't jaina leaved the alliance the previous xpac because she was blinded by revenge? and she also threatened to make the kirin tor leave the alliance in war crimes? or how she acted on her own on the purge?

and didn't genn attacked sylvanas more for revenge? isn't that a flaw?
but i guess that it doesn't count.

but hey man, if that is boring to you is all about personal tastes.
the alliance acts united for a reason.


I forgot about Jaina. I think Genn's situation was more about revenge for Varian, not so much a conflict within the faction. Although, Anduin did not agree with good choices.
11/12/2018 12:07 AMPosted by Anyaceltica
Faction conflict inth e alliance always gets marginalized by Human Potential.

Not really, alliance conflict gets overshadowed by the horde threat.

even when we have some tension or divisions, fighting the horde is more important than fighting each other.

just look at now, tyrande is going on her own, and yet she will do exactly what the rest of the alliance is doing, fight the horde.
11/11/2018 07:08 PMPosted by Kaileena
It would have been nice to see some help from the Draenei but I guess they sent meant to be included in that part of the story. On another note it seems that the relationship between the Night Elves and and Draenei, or at least should be a closer relationship is looked over. Wasn't it the Night Elves that first embraced the Draenei and offered them help?


They certainly get along and the Draenei are grateful to the NEs for their assistance, but there always has been a reasonable amount of culture clash between the two groups. While both may be very long lived, the Draenei actually have more in common with Humans then they do NEs. Their light-worship has made the two faction bond far faster than you'd think; and thats not a commonality the Draenei share with the Elune heavy Kaldorei. Velen had to tiptoe around that topic quite a bit.

The Draenei also have a very tech heavy civilization, and unfortunately when their tech is damaged or malfunctions it tends to release arcane radiation and heavily damage natural environments. There is a reason why Darkshore and Ashenvale never got upgrade with Draenei tech (which tactically would have been a sound move). Its because that tech runs counter to Kaldorei cultural norms and efforts; they weren't going to have it irradiating their sacred trees by accident.
11/12/2018 12:01 AMPosted by Serevèn
Hey here's a wild question: Why does our splitting only hurt us? Do the Horde have infinite troops to field to all corners of the globe?
Same reason why it doesn't work super well in real life. Defenders can hold up against attackers in fortifications for a time, and smaller armies or incomplete encirclments could struggle punching through forts. But while the Alliance have a spread out line, the Horde could push back on a different front, punch through a thinner line, and flank the enemies and collapse formations. Horde doesn't need a equal force to hold off aggression, they could automatically maintain forces on other fronts while Alliance thinning their lines weakens their own strengths.

In Starcraft 2 terms, splitting your army to send a small portion to harass your enemy's bases behind the lines seems like a good idea... but if your main army is sufficiently weakened, it'll lose the prime engagement, and open you up to a nasty counterattack. And that's not mentioning that the enemy base can deter your smaller forces with fresh units. It takes good tactics to make that gambit work.

Also there are matters of supply lines and keeping your troops well fed, but all things considered Night Elves are probably good at supplying themselves on the land (hunting and gathering) unless Horde employs scorched earth tactics a la Russian style.
11/12/2018 09:14 AMPosted by Rothiron
11/12/2018 12:01 AMPosted by Serevèn
Hey here's a wild question: Why does our splitting only hurt us? Do the Horde have infinite troops to field to all corners of the globe?
Also there are matters of supply lines and keeping your troops well fed, but all things considered Night Elves are probably good at supplying themselves on the land (hunting and gathering) unless Horde employs scorched earth tactics a la Russian style.


This is the big one for me. Overland supply routes are extremely important to defending a position, and the Horde has it in spades (honestly, I'm sort of shocked we're still relying on Kodo's for transport, you'd think the first thing the Gobs would have done was start investing in a Iron Horde Rail-line though Ashenvale). Even if the NEs can resupply themselves from the territory they've reclaimed, its a dicey thing to hinge the success of an invasion on. Also, the Horde is handicapped by the mechanics pretty hard here. Bilgewater and Forsaken comprise the majority of that front. If they were allowed to do what they do best, there shouldn't be much of a Darkshore to reclaim; if they thought they couldn't hold it.
11/12/2018 08:42 AMPosted by Droité

They certainly get along and the Draenei are grateful to the NEs for their assistance, but there always has been a reasonable amount of culture clash between the two groups. While both may be very long lived, the Draenei actually have more in common with Humans then they do NEs. Their light-worship has made the two faction bond far faster than you'd think; and thats not a commonality the Draenei share with the Elune heavy Kaldorei. Velen had to tiptoe around that topic quite a bit.

The Draenei also have a very tech heavy civilization, and unfortunately when their tech is damaged or malfunctions it tends to release arcane radiation and heavily damage natural environments. There is a reason why Darkshore and Ashenvale never got upgrade with Draenei tech (which tactically would have been a sound move). Its because that tech runs counter to Kaldorei cultural norms and efforts; they weren't going to have it irradiating their sacred trees by accident.


You're right about the culture difference. The worship of Elune is quite different than the light. I think Velen was trying to offer perspective but over stepped in his analysis of Elune's nature.

I completely agree with the second portion of your post.
I really did like that little pop up about seeing Velen just standing there. To me it says that they had planned for him to do something, but scrapped the idea.

Personally, I would have liked a Night Elf and Dreanei themed Warfront there in Darkshore since, well, that'd be the launching point for an Azurmyst invasion. Sort of make sense for the dreanei to be going full steam ahead into trying to reclaim the shore, at the very least.

If you replace Genn with Velen, and the Worgen as a whole, and having Genn side with Anduin, and by extension Arathor and Kul'Tiras, I think that would be a good wedge that Sylvanas and Saurfang planned for. Don't get me wrong, it may not be the best option, but I'd personally like the Horde story to actually be mildly right about something throughout the course of this war.
11/12/2018 09:33 AMPosted by Abrahof
I really did like that little pop up about seeing Velen just standing there. To me it says that they had planned for him to do something, but scrapped the idea.

Personally, I would have liked a Night Elf and Dreanei themed Warfront there in Darkshore since, well, that'd be the launching point for an Azurmyst invasion. Sort of make sense for the dreanei to be going full steam ahead into trying to reclaim the shore, at the very least.

If you replace Genn with Velen, and the Worgen as a whole, and having Genn side with Anduin, and by extension Arathor and Kul'Tiras, I think that would be a good wedge that Sylvanas and Saurfang planned for. Don't get me wrong, it may not be the best option, but I'd personally like the Horde story to actually be mildly right about something throughout the course of this war.


Intresting theory. Im not sure how well that would work together in battle though. The styles are really different. The pack form of the worgen work better with the NE hot and run style the usually use, that is until the current in the open.
11/11/2018 10:28 PMPosted by Razzat
11/11/2018 04:07 PMPosted by Kaileena
I usually don't watch or post about spoilers, but I'm done with the war campaign and I don't feel like doing high level mythic+ or a raid yet. So frankly until 8.1 comes out I'm bored off my @ss lol. That said I only want to talk about this scenario, please don't spoil anything that comes next please and thank you.
https://youtu.be/iMzv7vAgNkU

I LOVED this. Finally we get to see Tyrande act like not just one of the Alliance leaders but the leader of her people. We have rarely seen that from her in game, so this was very satisfying. Anduin being confronted by not just Tyrande but Sira, (I assume that is) Maiev, and Shandris must be intimidating, seeing that they are thousands of years his senior. Things that I loved besides the confrontation itself...

1. Maiev's righteous fury. In the past she's been a bit unhinged, but here she is totally in control and pissed!

2.Shandris FINALLY got a custom voice model. Now if she got a new character model to match because this one is bland.

3. People give Tyrande (or blizz) grief about Tyrande's accent. Tyrande sounds like a wise black woman straight out of the Motherland and I AM HERE FOR IT!!! Also I loved how she strolled out of that room like Naomi Campbell lmao.

4. Genn is the MVP, I'm so glad he stepped up the way he did.

I understand Anduin's point here. Trying to stop Sylvanas is really testing him as a leader. The toll of this war is rising on both sides and he doesn't want to spread out too far for risk of stretching valuable resources and soilders. So objectively his point is totally understandable. That said, I thought I heard that at the end of the raid (that I haven't done) the Alliance dealt the Horde a large blow?

However, Tyrande and her people have lost everything, in service to the Alliance. They have been in Stormwind, for what I assume is a few months at this point. With the war going the way it is, there is no telling when they will receive help to reclaim their home. Tyrande's decision may seem rash and it may be, but her people are owed and if the horde remain there too long they might not ever be able to take it back.

I do feel bad for Anduin though,he is trying to juggle the all of this while still feeling responsible for Teldrasill which honestly isn't fair. I've never blamed him for Teldrasill. Both he and Tyrande acted in what they assumed was good intelligence. The real person responsible is Matthias Shaw his stupidity cost the Night Elves everything.


AT LAST! Some inner conflict on the perfect, goody two shoes Alliance!

Could it be that we're finally having an...actual development? Some humanity? Some...actual FLAWS? God I hope so...


It’s not exactly a flaw to disagree with someone.
11/12/2018 11:12 AMPosted by Arlifrex
11/11/2018 10:28 PMPosted by Razzat

AT LAST! Some inner conflict on the perfect, goody two shoes Alliance!

Could it be that we're finally having an...actual development? Some humanity? Some...actual FLAWS? God I hope so...


It’s not exactly a flaw to disagree with someone.


I don't think it's a flaw either just a difference of opinion on what the priority is. A flaw would be Anduin completely ignoring what the Kaldorei are going through.

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