Wow this Timewalking thing really shows something..

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There is more to this than all you post-WoD newbies who refuse to CC on trash pulls--as was the norm for most xpacs before Blizz dumbed everything down to make this game approachable to extreme casuals...

..another huge difference is the homogenization between classes that has occurred. Healers were nerfed across the board, and DPS classes were given self healing spells in a move that can best be described as retarded sacrilege. Now, in the B.S. hybrid and/or complete limp noodle utility state that healers currently reside in, our toolkit isn't appropriate for the content as it was designed back then--when healers were actually expected (and had the ability to) keep their whole group alive.

Healing is the most broken, boring bullsh*t I've ever seen it dating back to Vanilla.
11/14/2018 05:20 AMPosted by Miadra
I do agree with you on the scaling. At first I thought it was a good idea, but the more I have to deal with it in various situations, the less I like it.


LoL. This isn't a scaling issue. BC heroics were *hard*. Like, Nintendo-hard. On purpose.

They were designed to challenge people in raid gear and help people speed through the karazhan and Gruul gearing phase on their way into BT.

This isn't scaling. They hit that hard back in TBC. You just either didn't run them, forgot, or didn't start playing until Blizz turned dungeons into easy mode.

These heroics pre-date AoE tanking. CC was a requirement rather than a parlor trick or a suggestion. And kill order matters in some cases because some rare mobs will enrage and 2-3 shot a tank through most defensive cooldowns.

BC Heroics were brutal.
11/14/2018 10:30 AMPosted by Quebacon
You know you can use 5 legionaries to help with timewalkers?

2 Legion
Ring from WoD
Cloak from Mist
Weapon from whatever expansion had your weapon.


This...

Plus I personally have on both this toon and my warrior a gear set specific to timewalking.

Most every piece of gear from SoO with relevant sockets filled in will beat out everything current with the squishes.

BIS bracer for most will be crafted ones from Cata that have iirc 2 sockets.

BiS neck imo is the Archaeology one from Legion with 3 Sockets. Prydaz is good as well but only if it's not taking up a Legion legendary slot that you want to use a different legion legendary for. (such as Sephuz). I would put the Heart of Azeroth neck at 3rd if you don't have either of these 2.

A must have trinket I feel is the Ghost Iron Dragonling from Engineering. The Cogwheels do not scale nearly as harshly as the gems. And even after scaling down still beat out the MoP and Cata gems for raw stats.

Enchanting all the gear helps noticeably.

All that said. I have not run timewalks this week, so cannot comment on how my tank fares this xpac in BC. In previous iterations I averaged 7-15 mins from start to end in Shattered halls. The fastest at 7 mins was with a guild group who also worked on and farmed for a gear set specific for Timewalking and we just crushed everything. Triple Jump Shoulders were/are a godsend. When I pug it, tends to be about 15 minutes as the DPS usually are lagging behind in their output due to the stat squish.

*edit*

Even with all that, knowing the mechanics of the fights/dungeons are still big things to know and remember. They do hit like freight trains in many cases.

I have a love/hate relationship in timewalks with one of our raid healers. I do have a tendancy to overpull sometimes but when it goes acording to plan, makes for a fast fun run. A lot of tanks now days seem to forget using their mitigations or rotating them through at the right times.
The issue is spike damage coming too fast to heal through. If it takes 1.8 seconds to get a single heal off but you go from 100% health to dead in 1.7 seconds ...

the TW scaling was always a bit wonky - like the tank takes a single mob attack that bings him for an 8k 'hit' but the healers biggest heal only heals you for 1200 health (these numbers are examples obviously). So it requires a half dozen or more GCDs just to replace that 8,000 health points; good luck to you if a melee dps is out of position and also eats that 8k cleave/cone because now you need double the GCDs just to get the tank and the dps health replenished.
If Timewallking shows anything, it is that WoW's scaling is terribly designed.
11/14/2018 12:31 PMPosted by Ollin
11/14/2018 05:20 AMPosted by Miadra
I do agree with you on the scaling. At first I thought it was a good idea, but the more I have to deal with it in various situations, the less I like it.


LoL. This isn't a scaling issue. BC heroics were *hard*. Like, Nintendo-hard. On purpose.

They were designed to challenge people in raid gear and help people speed through the karazhan and Gruul gearing phase on their way into BT.

This isn't scaling. They hit that hard back in TBC. You just either didn't run them, forgot, or didn't start playing until Blizz turned dungeons into easy mode.

These heroics pre-date AoE tanking. CC was a requirement rather than a parlor trick or a suggestion. And kill order matters in some cases because some rare mobs will enrage and 2-3 shot a tank through most defensive cooldowns.

BC Heroics were brutal.


This.

In BC we had Dungeons -> Heroics - >Raids

Heroics required complete knowledge of all the pulls and mechanics of the dungeon. The problem is that WoW is now speedrun and mass pull dungeons, and little to no trash mechanics. Unless you had a pally tank, you weren't AoE tanking, and even then you weren't pulling more than 3 mobs at a time. Not to mention we had a very nice ability to not be crushed instantly until after we hit 35% HP.
11/14/2018 10:37 AMPosted by Arkimus
These dungeons were not built for speed runs. The were built for well organized groups that had proper communication and cohesion. Not much of that exists outside of organized raiding guilds anymore.


Nah, I pugged TBC (and Cata) heroics all the time. There are some tricky trash pulls and boss mechanics, but all can be explained with a few seconds of typing. Even Cata, which was way worse. (*shudders at Deadmines flashbacks*)
Had some BDK try to pull the hall and first room of Shattered Halls today. It wasnt very fun. Then he got pissed and started blaming the healer and DPS. He rezzed, returned and did it again. Died a second time and discoed on us. I left shortly after. I really dont feel like dealing with that anymore.
Magister's Terrace tank over pulled and we wiped once but really not a problem other wise.


Tanked that last night, the trick is to limit pulls and then LOS the groups. Tanked Black Morass as well, its an easy enough encounter, the key there is controlling the mobs around the portals.

Mana Tombs? Pull the terrors on their own, get them down, get the mobs in small groups....dont even need to pull the terrors too far back, just enough so the mobs dont come with them.

I am back into tanking and am enjoying the hell out of myself.
11/14/2018 07:19 AMPosted by Sardønicus
11/14/2018 07:05 AMPosted by Adorbs
But most players were bad in vanilla/tbc too...including me before someone gave me some tips.

There’s never been a time where the majority of the player base were great.

Ps. Ccing and killing 1-2 at a time is boring.

PPS. Pretty sure all dengeons were eventually over geared and aoed. I certainly don’t remember anything being too painful except start of expansions.


Funny because raider.io says you’re still bad.


I’m a lot more casual now that I’m not an unemployed teenager, but nice shot!
I think its because people are used to ez mode running through dungeons at max level. Tanks don't need to use their mitigation spells. Healers hardly have to heal. Just dps everything down. I kind of like it that it is more difficult.
11/14/2018 04:04 AMPosted by Kugsneak
timewalking needs to be scaled down a bit in difficulty, more forgiving

just another time sink that doesn't need to be so tedious


more forgiving> takes less skill.

mhm. as if the forums arent filled of that VERY problem already. bad players who are screaming for it to be fixed.
Funny because raider.io says you’re still bad.


Raider.io has a major issue with not displaying results across the board, and consists of a limited database that doesnt include or display all runs.

If you arent in the top 500 your runs dont get recorded or displayed.
11/14/2018 01:42 PMPosted by Flashelas
Nah, I pugged TBC


No you didn't. Not like you can today.

Back in TBC servers were a community. If you pugged TBC heroics it meant you found a group with people who could either vouch for you, or who hadn't blacklisted you for being a screw-up. It's not like today where the rando-pool you can pull group-mates from is several times the size of your average urban zip-code.

TBC was a different game than BFA. It's that simple.
11/14/2018 12:31 PMPosted by Ollin
11/14/2018 05:20 AMPosted by Miadra
I do agree with you on the scaling. At first I thought it was a good idea, but the more I have to deal with it in various situations, the less I like it.


LoL. This isn't a scaling issue. BC heroics were *hard*. Like, Nintendo-hard. On purpose.

They were designed to challenge people in raid gear and help people speed through the karazhan and Gruul gearing phase on their way into BT.

This isn't scaling. They hit that hard back in TBC. You just either didn't run them, forgot, or didn't start playing until Blizz turned dungeons into easy mode.

These heroics pre-date AoE tanking. CC was a requirement rather than a parlor trick or a suggestion. And kill order matters in some cases because some rare mobs will enrage and 2-3 shot a tank through most defensive cooldowns.

BC Heroics were brutal.
I ran literally every 5-man BC heroic repeatedly when it was current and the only thing that sucked were a couple boss mechanics and the lack of aoe threat. You absolutely did not need CC unless your gear wasn't up to snuff- it just really helped.

Not overpulling or backpulling was basically the cornerstone of getting BC heroics done. If you weren't patient enough to do long LOS pulls to get enemies into manageable positions you wiped. If you tried too hard to skip some trash packs and backpulled you wiped. If you ignored very specific trash mechanics you wiped.

I only remember the most distinctly crappy trash pulls- I vaguely remember hating some of the pulls in Mana-Tombs, I remember it being rough if you didn't let the gladiators in Shattered Halls get eachother nearly dead before pulling, and I remember hating basically every single pull in Shadow Lab.
I haven't done the BC ones yet, but most of the prior ones were tuned near the level of current m0 dungeons with some bosses having 1 shot mechanics that most people aren't accustomed to.

And they let anyone queue for them... Like level 60 people should be able to queue for bc time walking dungeons I believe.
Doesn't feel any different than doing those dungeons during leveling to me.
11/14/2018 03:43 PMPosted by Kenshimoo
Doesn't feel any different than doing those dungeons during leveling to me.


Did they get buffed that much during the leveling revamp?
11/14/2018 03:43 PMPosted by Kenshimoo
Doesn't feel any different than doing those dungeons during leveling to me.


In timewalking, they are on heroic difficulty. When you level, you're probably doing it on normal.

And back then, heroics were just that, heroic. Now abilities have been neglected because there was no need (Naimely CC's) and so with the speedrun mentality of the past couple expansions, people are hitting brick walls because they forgot how to control situations and take their time.
11/14/2018 03:43 PMPosted by Kenshimoo
Doesn't feel any different than doing those dungeons during leveling to me.


TW Heroic Magister's Terrace actually felt easier than Normal while leveling, since TW gives you an appropriate ilvl for it. While leveling up, the place is tuned to an end-of-xpac gear level you'll never reach until past 70.

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