Wow this Timewalking thing really shows something..

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I did the Black Temple for the Warglaive mog and it was fun but also annoying. I was playing my hunter and would drop a trap but someone would always attack the frozen mob. I stopped dropping traps when that kept happening or tank would pull mobs away from traps.

On the first run I did we made it to the RoS and wiped like 6 or 7 times. It started with someone walking onto ramp and starting it while we were dealing with ghosts and after everyone was told not to walk on ramp it was the 3rd phase dealing too much damage. It took 2 1/2 hours to get that far. 3rd phase needs some adjusting imo.

I had to go cause it was taking far longer then I had planned so figured I would not get the mog. I got back on at night and luckily found a group doing the last 3 bosses so I popped into that one.

In that group we wiped on Mother Shahraz I think 3 times cause our grouping wasn't right at first and then we just got bad port groups and insta kills. After that we took care of the Illidari Council quite easily. Finally we wiped once on Illidan cause people didn't know not to stand in fire. After that had to be explained we took care of him and I got not only the warglaive mog but a 355 Bow of the Betrayer. That run took an hour or a little past that.

I asked questions if I was confused like on the Mother Shahraz fight they told ranged to be on one side but didn't say to stack. After first wipe I had to ask for clarification and they said to stack and it went better. On RoS they said to not burst on 3rd phase but to dot and press your #2 slowly. When we wiped I said I was using auto and my only dot but I died faster then other attempts. They said sorry for the confusion but you're suppose to burn cd's on 3rd phase. Ask if you're not sure, it's better then screwing up over and over.

All in all I would say that the Black Temple timewalking was fun except for that 3rd phase of RoS. I haven't done dungeons since pre-patch BFA cause of the scaling crap so couldn't even tell you about non-raid timewalking.

EDITED: I thought my bow was 370 but checked and it was only 355. Still and upgrade for me.
Some of my best memories in this game were in TBC doing "Saturday Morning Heroics."

5 of us from our guild would log in at 6:30 a.m., hop on Vent, and do 2 heroics every Saturday. We were all decently geared with some Kara purples.

We CC'd almost all trash packs and burned them down one by one. Back then it was the only safe way to do them without getting crushed by some of the mobs...especially in Shattered Halls.

We certainly played a different game than the one that is currently being played.
So Bc heroics are hard? Try healing H alcatraz on a H pally back in the day.

Working as intended.
11/14/2018 02:55 AMPosted by Moonblade
11/13/2018 05:09 PMPosted by Áysha
TBC TW scaling is really off.
Tanks we're getting 2 shot by mobs while bosses didn't even touch their health.


oh yeah, yeah. im sure its the scaling.

like today, when my friend was running and a boss one shot the tank. as they were running back, they asked my friend (hunter)- if he had tranq shot...

'cough'

I mean, your Hunter friend did, it's just not called Tranq Shot anymore, it's called Nether Shock now, or Sonic Blast, or something similar depending on your pet choice....

Not stating that is the reason the tank died, but the Hunter does have the tool they were describing.
11/14/2018 02:23 PMPosted by Bryce
You absolutely did not need CC unless your gear wasn't up to snuff- it just really helped.


Define, "up to snuff".
Yeah also there is an attitude with these dungeons..

I join one that has already had 2 bosses cleared, and it was obvious from chat that they were losing people. So I was trying to make my way to them, and they began to get rather insulting in chat as I was trying to make my way through the dungeon quickly.

Then suddenly i'm kicked out and given a 30 min deserter debuff...

It honestly completely turned me off from trying any more timewalking.
To be fair, BC dungeons - especially heroics - typically lasted a long time because unless you were raid-geared (which wasn't nearly as common as it is now), they were much harder and wipes were a regularity. People just have way less patience now because the cross-realm group finder and instant teleporting to dungeons makes it a lot easier to abandon a group at the first sign of trouble. BC dungeons were always hard but expectations have changed.

There is also the difference of abilities. In BC, crowd control was not just common, it was expected. Some bosses - and some entire dungeons, like Magister's Terrace - were nigh impossible without a Hunter whose entire purpose in the dungeon was to keep mobs trapped. I ran a dungeon last night with someone complaining about how badly designed it was, and when I mentioned that the part we were struggling with needed lots of CC when it was current, he said "What's CC?" The dungeons have not changed, but the abilities have. Lots of CC spells that were crucial then simply don't exist now.

I feel like one of the biggest benefits of Timewalking should be a refresher on how to play your class well and be flexible, but most of the time people queueing just want to smash their way through it for the badges and gear, and just throw tantrums when they contribute to the difficulty by not wanting to adapt to the content themselves.

I agree completely with your post, however when it comes to the highlighted sentence in my opinion I believe we are better off.
I can't really think of any CC that has been removed that was around BC but I can certainly think of a lot that were added after. Hex, and AoE stuns from Capacitor Totem for a start for Shaman, Monks and Demon Hunters who both have access to a long single target Incap as well as an AoE stun, Warriors able to take Stormbolt for a strong single target stun, Binding Shot for Hunters.

The only ones I can really think of being removed are Howl of Terror for all Warlocks along with Mortal Coil (although I believe you had to talent for Shadow Fury?), Deep Freeze for Mage, and Scatter Shot for BM only (although at the time Hunters did not have access to an interrupt outside of Silencing Shot when talented deep into MM)
11/14/2018 10:24 AMPosted by Sevaryn

So much this.

The first one I got was Mana Tombs. I went out of my way to pull the big voidys back into the previous room/hall. Two of the DPS got all antsy, forcing me to reestablish aggro a couple times to finish kiting back. Ten seconds later a fear went off with plenty of room to spare.

This is how dungeons worked back then. You didn't just charge every pack unless you liked getting a patrol up your !@#$ or fear bombed across the whole room.

Surprised that we haven't had more mention of Mana Tombs, especially the first boss. So many people just continue to try and pump dps into Pandemonius after he has casted Dark Shell and kill themselves from the reflected damage lol.
11/14/2018 04:25 PMPosted by Ollin
11/14/2018 02:23 PMPosted by Bryce
You absolutely did not need CC unless your gear wasn't up to snuff- it just really helped.


Define, "up to snuff".

Full tier 5 or 6 I would imagine.
11/14/2018 04:25 PMPosted by Ollin
11/14/2018 02:23 PMPosted by Bryce
You absolutely did not need CC unless your gear wasn't up to snuff- it just really helped.


Define, "up to snuff".
I was regularly running Shattered Halls, Arcatraz, Botanica, etc with little to no hard CC in a mix of heroic blues and Kara gear starting out and it only got easier from there.

We CC'd maybe one mob a pull in Magister's Terrace and got by just fine. It was all about not overpulling and following a kill order.
Logging in, queue'd as tank, get er done. Hope you get me
...
Idk how bad you are. But damn, if you think tanking prot pally m0s at 270 ilvl is hard then you're straight bad. A lot of us did it at the beginning of the xpac. It's only gotten easier with a lot of randos at 340-350 still running m0s. Even running as a dps, make your own group.


Please don't say "us" and "tanking" when clearly all of your raid acheivements outside of BFA were attained far after your outleveled them. This does not make you an expert. Also, if you were an ilvl 270 jumping into a m0, you were being carried. Enough grandstanding.

Timewalking is absolutely, beyond contest, the easiest way to gear a new 120, unless you have a good carry group. Even then, it could take much longer. One TW, turn in the quest, and you have enough of the currency to buy all 320 gear. In under an hour, you can enter warfronts.


To the bold, what are you even on about? The raids I tried are as follows end of HFC, ATBT, and Uldir. I was mount farming older raids all of MoP, I pvped most of WoD in ashran. About a month before the legion pre-patch I tried to get HFC AOTC, but missed HFC AOTC by a day and was top dps every Heroic pug run that eventually fell apart. During legion, I was working double days, so played casually till ATBT. You can check my logs in ATBT if you want, but it doesn't matter.

To the italicise, what you said prior has no bearing on my understanding of these dungeons or skill level, and if you think I was carried, check my battle dungeon achievements, it's kind of hard to be carried 2 days after launch with people that just hit 120 that day, I would've had it day 2 of launch, but my guildies were set back by server issues at launch.

TW is not the best in the least, you are wasting an hour of your time getting 5 pieces (you aren't replacing azerite slots with non-azerite gear) that will be replaced by m0s, arathi rares, warfront in the equivalent amount of time.

The best route right this moment for alliance is to kill the arathi boss (370), use a bonus roll(370 gear), clear arathi rares (340) with the roaming kill squads out right now, go kill the world boss in drustvar (355) use a bonus roll (355). If you don't have a cape at 320, buy one from a faction vendor. After all that, hit up m0s by making your own group. Now you didn't waste your time getting 320 gear that may or may not be replaced by the rng drops of above mentioned equipment and you are doing m0s which will undoubtedly give you most if not all your remaining slots upgrades.
Blizzard does a poor job of teaching players the game and their classes too.

They leave it to the fan sites that often have conflicting information.

Blizzards stand point is 'I already got your money bro'
If you are a tank or a healer in this dungeons you can quickly stress out, they are a bit overtuned.

I did it as a DPS on this one, and I focus on dpsing, cc'ing and silencing and was not stressful at all.

In other words, Q as DPS, the wait time is worth it.
Tbh yeah a lot of snowflakes crying about TBC H is hard....
BC's original release had far, far too much trash so just be glad this TW isn't based on that hot mess.
11/13/2018 04:05 PMPosted by Hirai
So this month's Timewalking is TBC, and wow...

We can see just how bad the average players have gotten. Your level and i-level are scaled down to fit the content, so there's no question of being undergeared (unless you are wearing something 51+ levels out of date), so how is it that I'm seeing this ridiculous amount of fail in some of these dungeons?

The first one I got into was Arcatraz.. yeah granted some of the enemies in there are seriously annoying and people get aggro while trying to skip fighting enemies... blah that was a fail.

Then I get a Black Morass that went OK.

Then a Second Black Morass and holy crap. Healers can't keep tanks alive, people insist on keeping bosses engaged so nobody can get back up, we *barely* won that dungeon with Medivh at some 50% shield left and 2 portals open while we just burned Aeonus down, just in time.

Black Morass is not hard. But somehow, a tank and healer failed to keep people alive during some of the trash waves, and I'm just going "... what the heck is going on here?"

Really wish Blizz hadn't put the weapons in TBC to be honest... I was originally thinking about getting 1-2 more characters up and buying them TBC Timewalking weapons because they are 320 when bought right off the vendor (which is way better than trying to find one through WQs), but oi.

Apparently plenty of other people hate TBC too because the queues are twice as long as Pandaria's TW was.

EDIT: Not trying to be elitist or anything, but c'mon, healers letting tanks drop dead on single trash pulls?


People seem to have selective memories about what Heroics used to be.

That's what they were like back when it was relevant content. Sh*t was hard. People wiped repeatedly. If you couldn't cc, you weren't allowed to come.
11/14/2018 07:34 PMPosted by Promess
Tbh yeah a lot of snowflakes crying about TBC H is hard....


Or people have been saying TW dungeons have been overtuned since the first round of scaling changes at the end of Legion, but, hey, don't let that stop you.

Incidentally, calling people "snowflake" comes from Fight Club, which, (and I know you don't know this) is actually a devastating critique of toxic masculinity, so, if you want to keep using that, bear in mind it reveals a lot about you.
11/13/2018 04:05 PMPosted by Hirai
So this month's Timewalking is TBC, and wow...

We can see just how bad the average players have gotten. Your level and i-level are scaled down to fit the content, so there's no question of being undergeared (unless you are wearing something 51+ levels out of date), so how is it that I'm seeing this ridiculous amount of fail in some of these dungeons?

The first one I got into was Arcatraz.. yeah granted some of the enemies in there are seriously annoying and people get aggro while trying to skip fighting enemies... blah that was a fail.

Then I get a Black Morass that went OK.

Then a Second Black Morass and holy crap. Healers can't keep tanks alive, people insist on keeping bosses engaged so nobody can get back up, we *barely* won that dungeon with Medivh at some 50% shield left and 2 portals open while we just burned Aeonus down, just in time.

Black Morass is not hard. But somehow, a tank and healer failed to keep people alive during some of the trash waves, and I'm just going "... what the heck is going on here?"

Really wish Blizz hadn't put the weapons in TBC to be honest... I was originally thinking about getting 1-2 more characters up and buying them TBC Timewalking weapons because they are 320 when bought right off the vendor (which is way better than trying to find one through WQs), but oi.

Apparently plenty of other people hate TBC too because the queues are twice as long as Pandaria's TW was.

EDIT: Not trying to be elitist or anything, but c'mon, healers letting tanks drop dead on single trash pulls?


Yeah, I'm sure the moonguard RPer that only runs LFR isn't the problem. Your judgement of others seems sound...
both the dungeons and raids are over-tuned. not only that but they are bugged.

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