Wow this Timewalking thing really shows something..

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11/13/2018 04:38 PMPosted by Wranxine
something is wrong with the balance of the dungeons, i made a full premade, we are all old players, good enough to do AOTC without buying any rush, we are not newbies,and simple we are doing ok then out of no where, a trash mob kills the tank in 3 hits..... the tank is not newbie, arcatraz we simply gave up before the second boss.... simply not worth it taking forever to do that ..... in legion we did all the timewalking events just fine, now we became the dumbest players alive? all in discord, pulling slow and still.....
I can't cast heals as fast as the tank dies sometimes, i have to use spirit link totem, but what after that we need to wait 10 minutes after each trash pull so we can lust.

I feel like the difficulty has increased since last expac. My groups and I made it through but there were pulls that made my health bar really fluctuate more so than I remember before bfa. I'm not entirely sure if it's working as intended or not.
Hmm...i just ran BC timewalking dungeon (slave pens) as healer. It seems like most people have not experienced BC dungeons. The tank kept running and rushing to pull multiple mobs ignoring my pleas to allow me drink. I had no time to drink and was low on mana all the time frantically healing the rushing tank. We wiped thrice and downed 2 bosses and I eventually quit.....
I love how what was supposed to be a fun diversion has become the most challenging 5-man content outside of high level mythic plus. This modern rush rush rush aoe all of the things mentality is why something as simple as cc and controlled pulls have become so foreign. I think it's hilarious to watch these new tanks just get demolished by 3-4 mobs because they think they can pull everything and wait for it to die. What really makes me shake my head is when you tell them to be careful, or los pull, etc etc. they still run in like Leeroy and get rolled. The repair cost is so worth the entertainment.
11/13/2018 04:05 PMPosted by Hirai
EDIT: Not trying to be elitist or anything, but c'mon, healers letting tanks drop dead on single trash pulls?

This is the kind of mentality that makes a group bad. The healer and tank are not the only group members who have mitigation and utility that help survival. Retribution has pretty big, instant cast heals they can talent in to, a powerful stun, interrupt, lay on hands, numerous blessings, and heck, you can even taunt and pop an immunity or kite.

All dps specs have a variety of tools to help survival. Use them. You'd be amazed how much of a difference you'll see in survival in a 5 man from just one dps who knows how to utilize their utility abilities.

Edit: A dps should probably know mechanics of trash even more intimately than the tank. Knowing what to target first and what abilities you should be using on it is important. With stuns and interrupts, dps can usually completely lockdown a target or two.
The Arcatraz is always an absolute nightmare to complete on Timewalking.
Tank here. I had a wipe fest on one dungeon. Got through it though lol. I enjoyed it all. That being said in all the dungeons I would cc a target and the dps would catch on and cc something else. I'm fine with how the dungeons are now. I think Arcatraz was the wipefest at the start. After getting past the initial trash it wasn't too bad.
You people are one day complaining about no challenge, vanilla was better, it was harder, dark souls and yadda yadda. Then you actually get something "challenging" and you start complaining that it's too hard? Put yourself in blizzard shoes. It doesn't matter what they do.

From what I've read the tw bc dungeons are quite poorly balanced. I haven't done them because I don't feel like doing *5* of them to do a silly quest. The previous ones were easy and good, imo, was that pandaria? I think so.

I wouldn't be shocked to see blizzard removing TW from LFD in the future. At that point you'll have so much fun going through io just to do a TW. No thanks. The only reason I personally do tw dungeons is to gear up alts, but this expansion, haven't really felt the urge to do that.
To be fair, BC dungeons - especially heroics - typically lasted a long time because unless you were raid-geared (which wasn't nearly as common as it is now), they were much harder and wipes were a regularity. People just have way less patience now because the cross-realm group finder and instant teleporting to dungeons makes it a lot easier to abandon a group at the first sign of trouble. BC dungeons were always hard but expectations have changed.

There is also the difference of abilities. In BC, crowd control was not just common, it was expected. Some bosses - and some entire dungeons, like Magister's Terrace - were nigh impossible without a Hunter whose entire purpose in the dungeon was to keep mobs trapped. I ran a dungeon last night with someone complaining about how badly designed it was, and when I mentioned that the part we were struggling with needed lots of CC when it was current, he said "What's CC?" The dungeons have not changed, but the abilities have. Lots of CC spells that were crucial then simply don't exist now.

I feel like one of the biggest benefits of Timewalking should be a refresher on how to play your class well and be flexible, but most of the time people queueing just want to smash their way through it for the badges and gear, and just throw tantrums when they contribute to the difficulty by not wanting to adapt to the content themselves.
Ironically, they made it harder for the people who actually want to run them. You know, people gearing their alts.
11/13/2018 04:05 PMPosted by Hirai
So this month's Timewalking is TBC, and wow...

We can see just how bad the average players have gotten. Your level and i-level are scaled down to fit the content, so there's no question of being undergeared (unless you are wearing something 51+ levels out of date), so how is it that I'm seeing this ridiculous amount of fail in some of these dungeons?

The first one I got into was Arcatraz.. yeah granted some of the enemies in there are seriously annoying and people get aggro while trying to skip fighting enemies... blah that was a fail.

Then I get a Black Morass that went OK.

Then a Second Black Morass and holy crap. Healers can't keep tanks alive, people insist on keeping bosses engaged so nobody can get back up, we *barely* won that dungeon with Medivh at some 50% shield left and 2 portals open while we just burned Aeonus down, just in time.

Black Morass is not hard. But somehow, a tank and healer failed to keep people alive during some of the trash waves, and I'm just going "... what the heck is going on here?"

Really wish Blizz hadn't put the weapons in TBC to be honest... I was originally thinking about getting 1-2 more characters up and buying them TBC Timewalking weapons because they are 320 when bought right off the vendor (which is way better than trying to find one through WQs), but oi.

Apparently plenty of other people hate TBC too because the queues are twice as long as Pandaria's TW was.

EDIT: Not trying to be elitist or anything, but c'mon, healers letting tanks drop dead on single trash pulls?

You do know that the dungeons were designed for completely different tanking and healing ability sets right. You're not an elitist you just don't have a full understanding of how the time walking dungeons work. There is a reason they retune a lot of them after a few days of beta testing.
it shows that people use personal experiences to make generalizations about large groups of people, while also ignoring information that refutes those generalizations. in other words, you're stereotyping with little information.
11/13/2018 04:05 PMPosted by Hirai
EDIT: Not trying to be elitist or anything, but c'mon, healers letting tanks drop dead on single trash pulls?

Hey, if they don't like it we can find another tank that does! NOW PULL!!!
On the bright side. You can toss on your MOP cloak, your WoD ring and 2 Legion lego's and have them all work. Also if you have that set from the world quests that does dmg to whatever attacks you that would work too.

I think Blizzard is secretly trying to make everyone keep a "timewalking set".
The timewalking are just not fun.. they are not even close to the difficulty they were when live. They don't scale well...

worst of all you have to do 5 for a 355 piece? but 4 Mythics for a 370 piece? They are debatable harder then mythics…

Bottom line is does not refresh my enjoyment from the old expansion when it was live. They are ruining my memories from them if anything.
Current TW is tuned to be like a mythic+8, it's horrible dmg scaling with current HP for trash and bosses.

While I agree there are people who just can't do their role very competently or do mechanics, TW is definitely way overtuned atm.

I did some with solid mythic+ and raiding friends and we were just laughing at how stupidly high all the HPs were.

I don't want to imagine pugging alts for gear, it wouldn't be worth the time and headaches, especially if you get a group doing 400dps or less.
11/14/2018 09:59 AMPosted by Loginerror
Current TW is tuned to be like a mythic+8, it's horrible dmg scaling with current HP for trash and bosses.

While I agree there are people who just can't do their role very competently or do mechanics, TW is definitely way overtuned atm.

Hehe I'm putting "I did my timewalkings" in my next mythic+ Application! Sadly it won't go over well, but what he said is true.
11/13/2018 05:16 PMPosted by Minusthemonk
You are completely assuming that time walking is 100% balanced for this to be the case. and the last couple TWing events proved it wasn't even looked at before BFA went live. A level 111 tank gets hit 4 times harder than a level 120 in TWing and a level 112 healer can't get a heal off on a 120 player thats more than 10% of their HP because the player to player scaling interactions are FUBAR....the scaling is so far off its not even funny.

So many important things unfinished, or poorly done, or just plain done wrong.
Just a reminder. TBC Heroics were designed for preraid geared players as a way to get Epics in order to get ready for raids. These timewalked are way overtuned due to Blizzards wacky way they level scale content. Heroics weren't this hard by a long shot.
TW content doesn't reward the kind of speed runs that M+ races have got players accustomed to.

In the words of the Great Panda: "Slow Down" (or wipe - and that'll slow you down anyway)

I'll also add, how many of us are left that did that grind and know the mechanics like the backs of our hand.

Quality work and speed (in any context) takes practice.
11/13/2018 04:14 PMPosted by Pdn
First it was not having to walk back to the dungeon from the graveyard
Then it was checkpoints in dungeons
Then it was less mechanics on trash
Then it was less optional trash
Then just less trash in general
+ some other stuff i cant remember

The average modern player could think the timewalking was hard, but it was some of the easiest content back then. BC was the last expansion to have actually difficult dungeon mechanics. Wrath had SOME dungeons with real mechanics.
Then cata starting throwing it all out (besides heroics)

And now you get what we have now, just dumbed down stuff. At least outside of mythic+ its all very dumbed down.

Which is why I would like to see M0 get added to LFG. The du vons used to be more difficult, about M0 levels, but everything has been dumbed down so much. My biggest fear would be making my thing dungeons easier, which doesn't need to happen, but at this point, heroics are so easy, they're not worth going into for fun, and making a group usually takes more time than I have. People CAN pug M0, and do well, we just need to make the standard of difficulty higher, like it was pre MoP (cata heroics were awesomely difficult, and utility was a must).

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