Blizzard, people DO want to play other specs

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
After seeing responses on the Q&A, it seems like Blizzard doesn't understand why people play the spec they do. We're not playing FOTM because it's our favorite, we're doing it because the others are bad. We would gladly swap specs.

There are plenty of people who WANT to play Shadow, Elemental, Demonology, Marksmanship, etc. but since they're just so far behind the FOTM specs, we don't want to be a burden on our raid group.

So I just want to be sure it's clear, we're not avoiding those specs because we don't like them, we're avoiding them because Blizzard made them bad. If you're not playing with friends, you're not getting a raid spot as a "bad" spec. If you are, then playing a bad spec is like being the only one who wants Chinese food and making all your friends go for Chinese when they want Mexican.

EDIT:
It all fits with Blizzard's overarching theme too, now that I stop to think about it. Alliance have mostly given up on warmode...must mean Alliance just don't like warmode. Horde dominate competitive PvE and PvP...must mean good players like to play Horde. Diablo's numbers are fairly low while people play mobile games all the time...must mean people want a mobile Diablo game. Leaving some specs out in the cold makes perfect sense now in the grand scheme of everything Blizzard's been doing as of late. They look at numbers and make decisions based on what will appeal to the largest number of players.
10/14/2018 10:34 AMPosted by Moriarty
After seeing responses on the Q&A, it seems like Blizzard doesn't understand why people play the spec they do. We're not playing FOTM because it's our favorite, we're doing it because the others are bad. We would gladly swap specs.

There are plenty of people who WANT to play Shadow, Elemental, Demonology, Marksmanship, etc. but since they're just so far behind the FOTM specs, we don't want to be a burden on our raid group.

So I just want to be sure it's clear, we're not avoiding those specs because we don't like them, we're avoiding them because Blizzard made them bad. If you're not playing with friends, you're not getting a raid spot as a "bad" spec. If you are, then playing a bad spec is like being the only one who wants Chinese food and making all your friends go for Chinese when they want Mexican.


The DK community feel your pain
Not even just that. There's a massive difference for some between aoe traits and ST traits. Also needing to swap out of uldir generic traits because class traits are much better in dungeons.
It blows my mind that this even needs to be said.
One of the reasons I've stuck with Druid so long is because I can do anything if I choose to. I don't want to be stuck in one spec all the time.
Sometimes I wonder do the thought of making all classes have 1 spec occurs at Blizz HQ. Them fools cut so many corners I wouldn't be shocked if they could scrap a spec they would.
I'd love to main marksman, but needing 3x of the same trait (which turns the gameplay into a 2 button rotation ) to be competitive is , well, stupid for lack of a better word
10/14/2018 07:29 PMPosted by Verenor
I'd love to main marksman, but needing 3x of the same trait (which turns the gameplay into a 2 button rotation ) to be competitive is , well, stupid for lack of a better word
After past iterations of how AiS functioned, this current iteration is a insult.
10/14/2018 07:47 PMPosted by Shadøw
10/14/2018 07:29 PMPosted by Verenor
I'd love to main marksman, but needing 3x of the same trait (which turns the gameplay into a 2 button rotation ) to be competitive is , well, stupid for lack of a better word
After past iterations of how AiS functioned, this current iteration is a insult.


I have 2 pieces with steady aim and I gave it a shot

After doing a waycrest 6 and casting steady shot SEVENTEEN TIMES to get a lethal shots proc , I reforged back to beast mastery

I was literally spanming steady shot fishing for an alleged 25% proc rate was the most garbage experience I've had playing any class .... And I played ret paladin in vanilla with seal of command waiting for it to proc ...
Why did I want to try Resto Shaman?
Because my hpala had so many abilities and effects pruned that he held me back and was a masochistic exercise in frustration to play. The player is willing but the pally is gimped. So I expanded my mental horizons--I've never played any alt past level 35 or so, always mained holy pally--and I remembered being healed by my buddy's shammy when I wanted to try tanking a 5man heroic once. I was impressed! I'd healed that dungeon so many times on my pally that when he healed me while I tanked it I could tell exactly how good he and shammies were. They were strong and fluid and responsive. So as you can imagine I was double disappointed to find out that not only had they cut off hpal's left hand and right foot, they'd also apparently thrown a wrench in the spokes and sand in the oil of Rsham as well?!?! I've always intended to make my first max level alt be a mage or warlock but now everyone says those classes also have been organ harvested of their mechanical depth, variety and interactions of spells, and player agency.

TLDR; I want to try other classes but they've had their fun factor drained and wire transferred to Activision Ivory Towers Inc, unless 99% of Forum Comments are lies.
Bringing this back because Blizzard seems to still not get it. The changes to various classes are minor and some are still going to be pretty bad. There's tons* of people out there who want to play Guardian Druid, Marks Hunter, Ele Shaman, SOMETHING OTHER THAN AFFLICTION WARLOCK, etc. They're not popular because nobody wants to play at such a disadvantage (and if you're pugging you just won't get in groups as a bad spec).

*may not be true anymore as the people who want to play those have quit. I have.
I'd like to play Prot more because it's certainly more fun than my Blood DK but unless you're a Blood DK/DH/Rogue/Mage/Boomkin/Lock people won't even look at you in M+
10/14/2018 07:24 PMPosted by Shadøw
Sometimes I wonder do the thought of making all classes have 1 spec occurs at Blizz HQ. Them fools cut so many corners I wouldn't be shocked if they could scrap a spec they would.
They pretty much have scrapped 2 of 3 Hunter specs. If you want to play the ranged damage dealer (bow/gun/xbow) your choices are BM or MM - they already killed SV. Now MM is so bad you realistically only have 1 choice - BM.

For me personally they have killed the entire class with post-MoP class design.
10/14/2018 10:34 AMPosted by Moriarty
After seeing responses on the Q&A, it seems like Blizzard doesn't understand why people play the spec they do. We're not playing FOTM because it's our favorite, we're doing it because the others are bad. We would gladly swap specs.

There are plenty of people who WANT to play Shadow, Elemental, Demonology, Marksmanship, etc. but since they're just so far behind the FOTM specs, we don't want to be a burden on our raid group.

So I just want to be sure it's clear, we're not avoiding those specs because we don't like them, we're avoiding them because Blizzard made them bad. If you're not playing with friends, you're not getting a raid spot as a "bad" spec. If you are, then playing a bad spec is like being the only one who wants Chinese food and making all your friends go for Chinese when they want Mexican.


This is true , I very much prefer to play demo but in its current form it's just not a good enough spec with too many glaring issues/weaknesses.

I do try to get away with playing it sometimes but it feels bad to do that to your friends/ raid team you play with
Remember Ion playing wow on his tablet, now pruning went beyond Legion, for me at least now it starts to look like "don't u have a phone?".
One more pruning exercise and wow is fit for mobile, no need for further development as we are on the opposite of class development for the third expansion in a row.
10/14/2018 10:34 AMPosted by Moriarty
There are plenty of people who WANT to play Shadow, Elemental, Demonology, Marksmanship, etc. but since they're just so far behind the FOTM specs, we don't want to be a burden on our raid group.

I know this is from the first post and ages old, but please look forward to new Azerite gear with overpowered spec-specific traits so that you can continue to not swap specs because you're gear-locked!
BUT YOU'LL PARSE WITH BIGGER NUMBERS SO PRAISE US FOR "FIXING" AZERITE!

Same garbage as Relics and spec-locked AP ranks in Legion. I hate having to farm 2-3x more things just to be able to swap specs, whether it be for fun or because a different spec might offer something more useful to me on a fight.

11/11/2018 08:09 AMPosted by Moriarty
SOMETHING OTHER THAN AFFLICTION WARLOCK, etc

I don't mind playing Affliction, I just don't want to be forced to ONLY play Affliction, not by tuning, and not by stupid spec-locked gear traits. Relics were garbage, let me play my CLASS not a SPEC.
11/11/2018 02:56 PMPosted by Chromey

I don't mind playing Affliction, I just don't want to be forced to ONLY play Affliction, not by tuning, and not by stupid spec-locked gear traits. Relics were garbage, let me play my CLASS not a SPEC.


This also reveals a major side issue with just saying "oh well, some specs are !@#$ right now, deal with it and we'll fix it later." Demonology has been buffed enough to be on par or better than Affliction in many cases. But it doesn't matter because the community perception of it is that it's awful because it was at the start. Logs do not reflect this due to the law of large numbers and all the good players are running Affliction (get 80,000 vs 5,000 parses and of course you're going to see a lot more super high ones).

So basically now all the specs that were bad at the beginning (ele, shadow, demo, marks) will have to be buffed so much that they're not just balanced, but downright OP in order for them to be considered viable again by the community. This is what happened with Blood DK and Affliction during Legion; they were really bad at the start and had to get buffed to being way too strong in order to be considered viable again.
10/14/2018 10:34 AMPosted by Moriarty
After seeing responses on the Q&A, it seems like Blizzard doesn't understand why people play the spec they do. We're not playing FOTM because it's our favorite, we're doing it because the others are bad. We would gladly swap specs.

There are plenty of people who WANT to play Shadow, Elemental, Demonology, Marksmanship, etc. but since they're just so far behind the FOTM specs, we don't want to be a burden on our raid group.

So I just want to be sure it's clear, we're not avoiding those specs because we don't like them, we're avoiding them because Blizzard made them bad. If you're not playing with friends, you're not getting a raid spot as a "bad" spec. If you are, then playing a bad spec is like being the only one who wants Chinese food and making all your friends go for Chinese when they want Mexican.


This is exactly correct.

It's really bizzare to me that bliz doesn't realize that they have a spec like rogues (not hating on rogues or even calling for a nerf, it's more about bringing the other specs in line with you guys and not you guys down into the trash with us)

A rogue brings so much utility to the table on top of having really good ST, AE, and cleave.
All three specs right now are in a solid spot, and it's not overly hard to even swap between the three.

Then you take a look at the other melee classes? All the FOTM specs bring very solid utility and great damage.
So then you get to the outcasts, feral and enchancement specs (there are others, yes). And it's a question of, "well your base overall dps in every area is not TERRIBLE, but you're behind all these other specs who pull higher AND bring good/unique utility. So why should we bring you?"

Sure, feral has brez, but you have all DKs and other druid specs who do more DPS and bring more utility than you (balance has innervate and treants)
Enchancement? Well, we know shamans need love. They got good burst though.

There are simply specs who do everything really well and bring so much to the table. Why wouldn't you stack them and leave out other specs? I agree with bliz that we should do better as a community, but it's about a 90 to 10 split. 90% being on bliz to bring these specs in closer line.
If they don't want to do it with numbers they need to think outside the box on utility these specs bring.
11/12/2018 07:20 AMPosted by Moriarty
11/11/2018 02:56 PMPosted by Chromey

I don't mind playing Affliction, I just don't want to be forced to ONLY play Affliction, not by tuning, and not by stupid spec-locked gear traits. Relics were garbage, let me play my CLASS not a SPEC.


This also reveals a major side issue with just saying "oh well, some specs are !@#$ right now, deal with it and we'll fix it later." Demonology has been buffed enough to be on par or better than Affliction in many cases. But it doesn't matter because the community perception of it is that it's awful because it was at the start. Logs do not reflect this due to the law of large numbers and all the good players are running Affliction (get 80,000 vs 5,000 parses and of course you're going to see a lot more super high ones).

So basically now all the specs that were bad at the beginning (ele, shadow, demo, marks) will have to be buffed so much that they're not just balanced, but downright OP in order for them to be considered viable again by the community. This is what happened with Blood DK and Affliction during Legion; they were really bad at the start and had to get buffed to being way too strong in order to be considered viable again.


Demonology is still significantly weaker than the other two specs in raids, its not just perception... the multiple buffs have not been enough to compensate for the specs issues/weaknesses. Sure it sims well now but it never works out in a real situation do to slow/unresponsive pets, no target swapping, and no mobility and having all cast times. There isn't any fight in the current raid where you wouldn't be better off taking one of the other lock specs.
11/12/2018 10:08 PMPosted by Ditsi
11/12/2018 07:20 AMPosted by Moriarty
...
This also reveals a major side issue with just saying "oh well, some specs are !@#$ right now, deal with it and we'll fix it later." Demonology has been buffed enough to be on par or better than Affliction in many cases. But it doesn't matter because the community perception of it is that it's awful because it was at the start. Logs do not reflect this due to the law of large numbers and all the good players are running Affliction (get 80,000 vs 5,000 parses and of course you're going to see a lot more super high ones).

So basically now all the specs that were bad at the beginning (ele, shadow, demo, marks) will have to be buffed so much that they're not just balanced, but downright OP in order for them to be considered viable again by the community. This is what happened with Blood DK and Affliction during Legion; they were really bad at the start and had to get buffed to being way too strong in order to be considered viable again.

Demonology is still significantly weaker than the other two specs in raids, its not just perception... the multiple buffs have not been enough to compensate for the specs issues/weaknesses. Sure it sims well now but it never works out in a real situation do to slow/unresponsive pets, no target swapping, and no mobility and having all cast times. There isn't any fight in the current raid where you wouldn't be better off taking one of the other lock specs.

Ion's trying to convince us that the problem isn't sub-standard specs, the problem is that players who have complained about the specs have given them a bad reputation, even though they're fine.

They're not. Shadow priest is not fine. Guardian is not fine. Feral is not fine. The upcoming bandaid fixes will not put them right.

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