Marksmanship PTR Changes

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
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10/17/2018 05:47 PMPosted by Vandren
My concern still remains about being able to get actually Aimed Shot actually off in PvP in the first place. As you said, it is a major driving force and a large percentage of MM's damage but being able to hardcast it with the long cast time it has in a melee-dominant PvP scene is usually a pretty big problem at the best of times.

I do thank you for the information though.
this.
It's too bad multi shot didn't work on 2-3 targets and mark them while doing some damage. Marked targets allow marked shot to be used and give it a short cool down. Multi builds focus again as well. Marked shot would cost focus and hits hard like before. I liked how marked shot worked, just the RNG of vulnerable sucked.

Bring back kill shot, add a shot like chimera again and remove rapid fire. Then aim can have consistent damage and you can balance kill shot easier. Steady and multi can generate focus.

Would like a talent that makes multi shot have flaming arrows/ rounds causing a burning effect.

Piercing shot right now is complete garbage, it needs a huge buff to the damage.
Lowering the cast time to Aimed Shot would not be a bad idea.

Also, Peircing Shot is useless. You can easily replace it with Kill Shot and nobody would complain.

Speaking of killing blows, would it be too much to ask for Camouflage’s CD to be reset upon a killin blow?
What's super frustrating from a hunter meta perspective:

MM really shouldn't ever be the *crappy* hunter spec. IMO, in the world where SV is melee and BM is a pet spec (with primarily pet damage and necessarily toned-down damage), you're completely alienating everyone who wants to play an archer class by not giving us a good MM spec.

Don't get me wrong. I don't want SV or BM to suck, but I can live with it if one or both of them do. I almost want to put my hunter away when MM is bad, and that's saying something for me. I don't think I'm alone when I state that I play hunter to shoot stuff with a bow from range. Every spec deserves to be viable, but I think special consideration has to be given to specs with such critical archetypes tied to them. It's almost like an entire class to itself is bad when MM is bad.
10/26/2018 01:45 PMPosted by Kabbie
Lowering the cast time to Aimed Shot would not be a bad idea.

Also, Peircing Shot is useless. You can easily replace it with Kill Shot and nobody would complain.

Speaking of killing blows, would it be too much to ask for Camouflage’s CD to be reset upon a killin blow?


Blizzard can't lower the cast time or the broken rotation gets even worse, thanks to the cool down and !@#$ charge system they dumped on us.

Kill shot won't exist as long as the talent keeps aim shot pretending to serve that purpose.

Camo should be baseline period... so should hunters mark.
The problem with Aimed Shot filling in for kill !@#$ is that our execute phase is going to suck with Aimed Shot’s cast time and charges - bad with raid bosses, worse with adds. Having kill shot would give us an instant shot to use on mobs with less HP, as well as another movement-friendly Shot.
waiting for aoe rework
10/26/2018 03:24 PMPosted by Gennosuke
Blizzard can't lower the cast time or the broken rotation gets even worse, thanks to the cool down and !@#$ charge system they dumped on us.
Lowering the cast time of Aimed Shot would do almost nothing except make the spec feel faster and give us more reliable damage when targeted. According to my model, which has proven to be extremely accurate, decreasing the cast time of Aimed Shot to 2.0 seconds would increase sustained DPM by a mere 2.2%. Making it instant would increase sustained by 4.5%. Both are a pittance, and would still leave MM way behind the mean. It is as low as it is because the thing that limits Aimed Shot damage is not the cast time, but its cooldown.

10/26/2018 03:24 PMPosted by Gennosuke
Kill shot won't exist as long as the talent keeps aim shot pretending to serve that purpose.

Completely untrue. Especially if it was in the same tier. Even if it wasn't on the same tier, Careful Aim doesn't in ANY way count as an execute in PvP. It requires you to have a charge at that exact moment, it requires you to be able to get a 2.5s cast off while they are at 20%, it requires them to STAY at 20% for that whole time, and it requires them to stay in LoS that whole time. It is useless outside of an opener (in PvP).
Careful aim needs to be changed to targets above 50%.

A 3 second cast in execute phase is the dumbest thing ever.
10/26/2018 07:37 PMPosted by Mofuggaz
A 3 second cast in execute phase is the dumbest thing ever.

Which is why Kill Shot - or buffing any instant ability like Arcane Shot - is a necessity.
Like I say this is a game designed by people in California and those people couldn't fire a squirt gun or a nerf bow without shooting them selves in the foot (unless they are military stationed out there)
10/26/2018 09:24 PMPosted by Waidmann
Like I say this is a game designed by people in California and those people couldn't fire a squirt gun or a nerf bow without shooting them selves in the foot (unless they are military stationed out there)


Useless comment is useless.
10/26/2018 08:25 AMPosted by Bertimus
10/26/2018 05:43 AMPosted by Eddyv
Even though I want old school scatter trap for MM, they would need to make scatter pathing larger than trap radius and that seems like too many changes to just facilitate one combo.


Not sure I follow. Scatter has a larger pathing radius than bursting, and bursting made you stand still when it disoriented. I think they could literally just put scatter on disorient and be done. Not that that is the only option though. They could also add back a version of freezing arrow that replaces freezing trap. And give bursting a root. Or do something completely different. As long as meaningful control mechanics get added, we'll be good. Until that happens, there's really no reason to play marks in arena.


Back in the day scatter pathing used to be much wider which allowed for counterplay by eating traps. This was also back when arming was 1 second instead of relative travel time.

I don’t think freezing arrow is the solution, it would have to be interruptable. Also it would just be an improved version of hex (works on all targets) which doesn’t bring much uniqueness.

I still think Rooting should be the way MM hunters self set up traps with BM and surv getting until as an additional method. I enjoy coordinating with my team to trap along with the mind games of faking deaths, grounding, pet taunts (using pet passive to prevent it).
For a class with as little utility and mobility as us a straight upgraded hex would be fine. I actually really like the freezing shot idea
10/27/2018 04:50 AMPosted by Eddyv
I still think Rooting should be the way MM hunters self set up traps with BM and surv getting until as an additional method.
A baseline root is an excellent idea and thematically appropriate for a hunter imo.

I personally would like to see Tar Trap apply a 4 second root for anyone stepping into it for the first time, just like it used to. I would also like to see its AoE increased by a couple yards; it's too small atm. Modifications to existing abilities (in this case to previous iterations) are in many cases all that are required to make MM great again. That suggests MM was great before, which of course is true.

"Why they changed it, I can't say. People just liked it better that way." -- TMBG

Just not the people that played it.
10/26/2018 08:12 PMPosted by Kabbie
Which is why Kill Shot - or buffing any instant ability like Arcane Shot - is a necessity.
We need a true execute. We need something that is reliably available when situations come up, but are ONLY available during those times. We need something to react to when OUTSIDE circumstances change (not internal "chances"). These are the things that are fun and promote the development of skillful play.

Buffs to existing abilities I was going to press anyways are much less fun. Let me have another damn button. I can literally do all my damage with my mouse wheel. It's ridiculous.
10/26/2018 06:09 PMPosted by Masoschism
10/26/2018 03:24 PMPosted by Gennosuke
Blizzard can't lower the cast time or the broken rotation gets even worse, thanks to the cool down and !@#$ charge system they dumped on us.
Lowering the cast time of Aimed Shot would do almost nothing except make the spec feel faster and give us more reliable damage when targeted. According to my model, which has proven to be extremely accurate, decreasing the cast time of Aimed Shot to 2.0 seconds would increase sustained DPM by a mere 2.2%. Making it instant would increase sustained by 4.5%. Both are a pittance, and would still leave MM way behind the mean. It is as low as it is because the thing that limits Aimed Shot damage is not the cast time, but its cooldown.

10/26/2018 03:24 PMPosted by Gennosuke
Kill shot won't exist as long as the talent keeps aim shot pretending to serve that purpose.

Completely untrue. Especially if it was in the same tier. Even if it wasn't on the same tier, Careful Aim doesn't in ANY way count as an execute in PvP. It requires you to have a charge at that exact moment, it requires you to be able to get a 2.5s cast off while they are at 20%, it requires them to STAY at 20% for that whole time, and it requires them to stay in LoS that whole time. It is useless outside of an opener (in PvP).


If you lowered the cast without fixing the cool down and charge system it would be a mess. The cool down and charges need to go, focus already controlled output fine before. I'm not taking about dps, purely how the rotation would function. I don't want to spam arcane and steady anymore then we currently do.

To say kill shot could be in the same tier is laughable. Aim is designed around careful aim, remove that damage bonus and you'll never even see the final 20% in an enemy's health, specially pvp.
10/27/2018 12:08 PMPosted by Gennosuke
10/26/2018 06:09 PMPosted by Masoschism
...Lowering the cast time of Aimed Shot would do almost nothing except make the spec feel faster and give us more reliable damage when targeted. According to my model, which has proven to be extremely accurate, decreasing the cast time of Aimed Shot to 2.0 seconds would increase sustained DPM by a mere 2.2%. Making it instant would increase sustained by 4.5%. Both are a pittance, and would still leave MM way behind the mean. It is as low as it is because the thing that limits Aimed Shot damage is not the cast time, but its cooldown.

...
Completely untrue. Especially if it was in the same tier. Even if it wasn't on the same tier, Careful Aim doesn't in ANY way count as an execute in PvP. It requires you to have a charge at that exact moment, it requires you to be able to get a 2.5s cast off while they are at 20%, it requires them to STAY at 20% for that whole time, and it requires them to stay in LoS that whole time. It is useless outside of an opener (in PvP).


If you lowered the cast without fixing the cool down and charge system it would be a mess. The cool down and charges need to go, focus already controlled output fine before. I'm not taking about dps, purely how the rotation would function. I don't want to spam arcane and steady anymore then we currently do.

To say kill shot could be in the same tier is laughable. Aim is designed around careful aim, remove that damage bonus and you'll never even see the final 20% in an enemy's health, specially pvp.


Careful aim is pointless in pvp. Sniper shot is a better opener in every way.
10/27/2018 12:24 PMPosted by Mofuggaz
Careful aim is pointless in pvp. Sniper shot is a better opener in every way.
It is on the PTR (thank god).
10/27/2018 12:08 PMPosted by Gennosuke
The cool down and charges need to go, focus already controlled output fine before.
This is the Legion model, since you can't move while casting it. This is the same model that caused thousands upon thousands of MM to quit the game, myself included (unsubbed the entirety of Legion) except now the cast time is even longer. Imagine having to stand still 2 to 3 times more often than currently. OMG the sh*tshow.

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