Marksmanship PTR Changes

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
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11/08/2018 08:09 AMPosted by Kabbie
It’s jarring, it’s unfamiliar, it’s a little painful to ask yourself how Blizzard is going to screw it up this time.

Maybe that’s just me. I don’t know if other players fee like that.
On this we are in complete agreement.
11/08/2018 04:01 AMPosted by Insanium
10/17/2018 05:53 PMPosted by Killshót
Cool, but Aimed Shot takes ages to cast outside of new Trueshot. Please fix it by either reducing cast time or making it castable on the move (I personally prefer second option). Also i'm not sure why CD and charges on Aimed Shot is a thing, get rid of them.

And our AOE/cleave is so bad and convoluted which sucks. Trick shot needs to be fixed, make it trigger from less targets and remove target cap.


No it doesn't, you just have bad gear.


This attitude annoys me. What it is doing is excusing a poorly designed, barely flowing spec. Not everyone raids; it's well and truly time that people come to terms with that fact. What people shouldn't be okay with are classes and specs that feel like garbage to play if you don't have high end raid gear; which as a reminder is still the vast majority of the player base.
It's time to stop being okay with Blizzard's god forsaken creation cycle of having a spec play like garbage until the final content patch in an expansion. We saw it for marksmanship in WoD, we saw it in Legion (though "good" is still highly subjective in that one), and we damn well look set to be in the same boat this expansion.
You basically hit on the problem in Legion: the spec sucked if you didn’t have the right gear. There was so much good stuff for MM in that expansion that it completely masked how weak the base design really was.
11/08/2018 08:17 PMPosted by Masoschism
11/08/2018 08:09 AMPosted by Kabbie
It’s jarring, it’s unfamiliar, it’s a little painful to ask yourself how Blizzard is going to screw it up this time.

Maybe that’s just me. I don’t know if other players fee like that.
On this we are in complete agreement.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think I’d want to see a complete reversion to MOP/WOD design, I just think that model and its theme are a better and more fully fleshed-out concept than the Live model.
11/09/2018 07:27 AMPosted by Kabbie
You basically hit on the problem in Legion: the spec sucked if you didn’t have the right gear. There was so much good stuff for MM in that expansion that it completely masked how weak the base design really was.
Not gonna lie, though. When MM's Mastery was at it's peak in legion, I found it perversely amusing that it was worth more per-point than agility.
11/09/2018 09:52 AMPosted by Yjjial
11/09/2018 07:27 AMPosted by Kabbie
You basically hit on the problem in Legion: the spec sucked if you didn’t have the right gear. There was so much good stuff for MM in that expansion that it completely masked how weak the base design really was.
Not gonna lie, though. When MM's Mastery was at it's peak in legion, I found it perversely amusing that it was worth more per-point than agility.

I loved not having to run away during raid mechanics because I could shoot from so far away.
11/09/2018 09:55 AMPosted by Kajeron
11/09/2018 09:52 AMPosted by Yjjial
...Not gonna lie, though. When MM's Mastery was at it's peak in legion, I found it perversely amusing that it was worth more per-point than agility.

I loved not having to run away during raid mechanics because I could shoot from so far away.
It was definitely entertaining. Not to mention having over 1 mil piercing shots relatively early into the xpac.
Only a couple more weeks until 8.1. This is starting to look grim for MM.

Blizzard have not addressed any concerns with lone wolf diminishing utility, or that we have traded a steady shot build for a rapid fire fishing build, which currently does less damage than steady aim live build.

AoE is still capped at a certain amount of targets.

Yikes.
11/06/2018 10:05 AMPosted by Mofuggaz
Bringing back abilities won't fix core issues. Is aimed shot our BnB or is RF, blizzard needs to pick one build the spec around that then just turn the other to a generic high damage moderate CD ability with no bells and whistles attached to it or remove it all together and replace it with a situational high damage ability like kill shot.


They should just make RF as a hard hitting CD like it used to be instead of a focus generating ability hitting like a peashooter that you can't cast because you got to stack Steady Aim buff.

Back in Cata and WOTLK Rapid Fire (along with Readiness) was one of the best CD in the game. It was 10% more effective than Trueshot is right now and was lasting twice as long when Readiness was up.

I think Trueshot got to be on of the weakest CD in the game right now considering the time it takes to stack Steady Aim and the time it takes to cast Aimed Shot. It would make a lot of sense for MM to have another CD. I mean BM have BW and AotW.
11/08/2018 04:01 AMPosted by Insanium
10/17/2018 05:53 PMPosted by Killshót
Cool, but Aimed Shot takes ages to cast outside of new Trueshot. Please fix it by either reducing cast time or making it castable on the move (I personally prefer second option). Also i'm not sure why CD and charges on Aimed Shot is a thing, get rid of them.

And our AOE/cleave is so bad and convoluted which sucks. Trick shot needs to be fixed, make it trigger from less targets and remove target cap.


No it doesn't, you just have bad gear.


I have 370 ilevel and it still takes age to cast. If you need mythic uldir titanforged gear to make the spec not feels like watching paint dry then there's something wrong.
11/09/2018 09:55 AMPosted by Kajeron
11/09/2018 09:52 AMPosted by Yjjial
...Not gonna lie, though. When MM's Mastery was at it's peak in legion, I found it perversely amusing that it was worth more per-point than agility.

I loved not having to run away during raid mechanics because I could shoot from so far away.


- Healer in TS : Huntard we can't heal you you're not in range
- Hunter in TS : What the heck i'm attacking the boss right now how am i not in range?
The new trueshot seems to behave very awkwardly and I assume is bugged, and there are some things that don't seem quite right anyway.

1. The buggy behavior appears to put Aimed Shot and Rapid Fire on a 3 second cooldown? Any time you cast a shot. So trying to use your Arcane Shot procs, or even just casting Aimed Shot has all kinds of weird interaction. No clue what's going on there.

2. New Trueshot should reduce focus cost of Aimed Shot it seems. You can't maintain casting it (I'm probably messing something up, or the weird interaction above)

3. New Trueshot should let you cast Aimed Shot on the move.
I just wish I had an idea where the devs were going with this.

In Legion, it was all about getting in big hits inside a vulnerability window (which is lame, but at least you knew what your big hitter was), but with BFA, there doesn’t seem to be a unifying game play aspect behind MM at all because simply being a bland low tier ranged DPS among a dozen other ranged DPS specs just doesn’t cut it.

Like do I want to use Aimed Shot or Rapid Fire, and why does Precise Shots empower my focus dumps instead of my big hitters? Why is LNL a talent instead of baseline? If Trick Shots is so cool, what justifies its long setup time when I think about the relatively small amount of targets hit?
The ptr version of mm is even worse then live. How the hell do you go backwards from terrible. Rotation still sucks, damage is even lower and aoe is more broken. Trueshot is still trash, they just put more emphasis on it. Lone wolf still isn't competitive...

I get 60k crits on live, on the ptr i barely hit 18k. This spec is dead. Please blizzard tell me what does marksman excel at?
This is dumb, the solution is stupid easy and they refuse to fix it. I don't like this build, I like legion MM. But if this build is really what they think the fantasy of marksman is made for, here is how to fix it:

-Remove the 2 charge limit on aim shot.
-reduce aim shot to 2 seconds
-reduce aim shot damage by 20%
-increase the proc rate of LnL to 10%
-Increase Lone Wolf buff to 15%

Congrats, now you have a kit that is more easy to manage damage with minor buffs and nerfs because the buffs and nerfs doesn't have as wide of a swing as the current build has. Yes, it will be more proc base were the player is fishing for both LnL and precise shot. But at least with the above changes, the kit works into itself.

I don't expect these changes because whoever is managing this spec doesn't understand the spec, or player choice feedback and should go back to managing BM.
11/12/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Contesta
-Remove the 2 charge limit on aim shot.
-reduce aim shot to 2 seconds
-reduce aim shot damage by 20%
-increase the proc rate of LnL to 10%
-Increase Lone Wolf buff to 15%

Now you have Legion (the worst iteration of MM ever) without the Weapon or Legendaries to hold it up.

So bad.

Actually worse than that, because it doesn't fix the stuff that is legit broken in the spec (Precise Shots, Surging Shots, etc.)
11/12/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Contesta
-Remove the 2 charge limit on aim shot.
-reduce aim shot to 2 seconds
-reduce aim shot damage by 20%
-increase the proc rate of LnL to 10%
-Increase Lone Wolf buff to 15%

Now you have Legion (the worst iteration of MM ever) without the Weapon or Legendaries to hold it up.

So bad.

Actually worse than that, because it doesn't fix the stuff that is legit broken in the spec (Precise Shots, Surging Shots, etc.)

The !@#$ you talking about? It isn't legion in the slightest, no mark shots, no vulnerability window. The thing that is broken in the spec is that aim shot is limited, they limit aim shot in the beta because it was way too powerful to be unlimited, hence early MM videos. Precise shot procs work nothing like mark shot because arcane shot was a builder ability, aim shot is your main spender ability, if I wanted it more like legion mm, I would ask for precise shots to proc off of %^-*ty Steady shot like steady shot proc build is currently doing.

so bad.
11/12/2018 08:23 PMPosted by Contesta
they limit aim shot in the beta because it was way too powerful to be unlimited
They limited it because they wanted to make MM more mobile. There were two main complaints about Legion MM. One was the vulnerable window, the other was that you were standing still the whole damn time casting Aimed Shot.

By putting Aimed Shot on a CD (as it was for most of WoW) the time we have to stand still is very low, and thus MM is a mobile spec again. By giving it two charges, that time required to stand still is twice every 24 seconds instead of once every twelve seconds. It is MUCH more forgiving. That is the only function of the charges: to make the spec more mobile.

Marked Shot (sans vulnerable) was the best part of Legion MM.

Also, if they reduced the damage of Aimed Shot by 20% that would puts its damage below two Arcane Shots (same focus cost). Thus making Aimed Shot obsolete.
11/12/2018 08:29 PMPosted by Masoschism
11/12/2018 08:23 PMPosted by Contesta
they limit aim shot in the beta because it was way too powerful to be unlimited
They limited it because they wanted to make MM more mobile. There were two main complaints about Legion MM. One was the vulnerable window, the other was that you were standing still the whole damn time casting Aimed Shot.

By putting Aimed Shot on a CD (as it was for most of WoW) the time we have to stand still is very low, and thus MM is a mobile spec again. By giving it two charges, that time required to stand still is twice every 24 seconds instead of once every twelve seconds. It is MUCH more forgiving. That is the only function of the charges: to make the spec more mobile.

Marked Shot (sans vulnerable) was the best part of Legion MM.

Also, if they reduced the damage of Aimed Shot by 20% that would puts its damage below two Arcane Shots (same focus cost). Thus making Aimed Shot obsolete.

yeah, more mobile, that is why Aim shot was 3sec cast back when they made the charge changes. We had to beg for it to be reduced.

To the point of 2 arcane being more powerful then 1 aim shot:
Aim Shot: A powerful aimed shot that deals [(187% (currently in ptr 207%) of Attack power) * ((max(0, min(Level - 10, 10)) * 8 + 130) / 210)] Physical damage

Arcane shot: A quick shot that causes [(60% of Attack power)% * ((max(0, min(Level - 10, 10)) * 5 + 80) / 130)] Arcane damage.

1 Aim shot cast 2 seconds vs 2 arcane shots with 1.5 gcd inbetween and 1 after. Without proc, casting 2 arcane shots is a 20% decrease compared to 1 aim shot. With single proc, about equal and double proc ~30% increase. The point is to play the abilities into each other by procing precise and LnL as much as possible between RF. Also, it will open up more aoe dps for dungeons.

Outside of the current cheese build that they are nerfing, movement is far less now then it ever was in legion, WoD or MoP.

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