Marksmanship PTR Changes

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I don't like using pets anymore, but there is no reason marksman can't be balanced with both play styles. Yes i think lone wolf should be 2-3% higher in dps, to account for the lost utility. This would still make having a pet viable for those who don't like survival and BM.

Doing something like 15% dps increase and 10% leech for LW would not require any number changes to the current numbers in skills. MM is low as it is and obviously they could easily fix the amount one way or another if needed.
10/21/2018 11:48 AMPosted by Lemmiwinkzz
10/20/2018 10:28 AMPosted by Ryutiz
Lone Wolf does not need to be buffed. It is best designed when the damage with or without a pet are closer together. It doesn't feel good when your class is tuned around a passive you can't even use in a number of situations.


They should just remove pets from MM. No one likes their terrible pathing anyway.

So fix the pathing; it's not like MM is the only spec or even class that has issues with this.
It would be neat if something other than the pet gave MS for marksmanship. Or if any/all of it's utility came from something other than the pet. But as of now, Mortal wounds, master's call, and Roar of Sacrifice come from the pet. So you have to use the pet in PvP, it's not an option. IMO, because of that, the output NEEDS to be comparable between LW and using pet. The fact that ST is better with pet and AoE is better with LW is actually one of the few things that they have right with the spec IMO.

If they buffed LW, we would be back in the same situation as Legion where it is always more damage to not use a pet, and you're pigeonholed into bringing no utility in order to accomplish optimal output, which is infeasible in pvp and feels bad in raids when you could just switch to a spec that is fully designed around utilizing the pet. A lot of us feel like having a pet in general is an integral part of playing a hunter in this game too.

That all being said. Nothing suggests that lw is up for debate or change. Why do we have page upon page of debate on this particular piece of functionality that is in no way “breaking” the spec when there are dozens of other actual issues? Flooding the forum with this stuff is going to make the legitimate issues and discussions around those less visible.

Scatter needs to be off trap DR.
Frankly they don’t need to buff Lone Wolf. But providing the utility abilities Primal Rage, Offensive Magic/Enrage Dispel, and Master’s Call from a dropdown menu would be amazing.
MM is simply lacking in the utility department compared to BM and SV without a single target stun or access to the above abilities without losing DPS.
I’d even be happy if they gave us Binding Shot baseline for add management in dungeons.
Good changes. If you want to make MM viable in PvP then get the defensive CD's on par with other classes. Two minutes is way too long to wait in this game. Right now killing a hunter only takes two stuns and a slow or root.
My honest to god opinion, take it for what it’s worth:

Scrap the changes to sniper and bursting. Focus on more reliable control mechanics that we can open up windows and set up plays with. The most obvious of which is scatter dr, and I suggest a talent giving bursting shot a root (do this with pvp talents such to limit using everything at once).

Sniper shot will be a burst gimmick. People already do not like playing against greater pyro, and this is arguably stronger given that it can’t be kicked and has a shorter cast time. When it inevitably has to be tuned down, we will be left in the same spot we are now. The healthy way forward has to be control mechanics.
10/22/2018 05:51 PMPosted by Bertimus
My honest to god opinion, take it for what it’s worth:

Scrap the changes to sniper and bursting. Focus on more reliable control mechanics that we can open up windows and set up plays with. The most obvious of which is scatter dr, and I suggest a talent giving bursting shot a root (do this with pvp talents such to limit using everything at once).

Sniper shot will be a burst gimmick. People already do not like playing against greater pyro, and this is arguably stronger given that it can’t be kicked and has a shorter cast time. When it inevitably has to be tuned down, we will be left in the same spot we are now. The healthy way forward has to be control mechanics.
from a balance protective we have less mobility and survivability then mages so I would argue sniper should be better then greater pyro.
Add Killshot and give some sort of proc.
10/21/2018 11:48 AMPosted by Lemmiwinkzz
10/20/2018 10:28 AMPosted by Ryutiz
Lone Wolf does not need to be buffed. It is best designed when the damage with or without a pet are closer together. It doesn't feel good when your class is tuned around a passive you can't even use in a number of situations.


They should just remove pets from MM. No one likes their terrible pathing anyway.
How are you going to fix the mechanics that makes the pet required?
10/17/2018 05:38 PMPosted by Nimox
The Public Test Realms (PTR) are seeing several changes for Marksmanship Hunters. Here’s some context on those changes.

One goal of ours for Marksmanship is proficiency in keeping targets at range in PvE and PvP situations. Marksmanship plays best when you have distance from your target, so we’re emphasizing some of the tools that help you either move a target away from you, or keep your distance.
    - Bursting Shot has had its knockback range increased, can no longer be dodged, and snares targets for 6 seconds now.

    - Steady Shot will now increase the duration of Concussive Shot on the target by 3 seconds. This will work on a Concussive Shot from any friendly Hunter, not just your own Concussive Shot.


Rapid Fire has had some usability problems in PvP. Most other channeled spells will continue to deal damage when your target runs behind a pillar and breaks line of sight, but Rapid Fire requires constant line of sight. We’re changing that, and now it will behave like almost every other channeled spell that players cast, and will continue to damage a target, even if the target is no longer in line of sight. We also think it’s cool to be able to use Disengage while channeling Rapid Fire, so now you can.

Aimed Shot is a driving force behind a significant amount of the damage a Marksmanship Hunter deals. There are a lot of different stacking bonuses you can get from various Talents and Azerite Armor that can swing the damage of Aimed Shot by a huge amount. Some of these bonuses are entirely uncontrolled, which made Aimed Shot an unreliable source of damage. We want Aimed Shot to feel like an impactful and more reliable source of damage, so:
    - Careful Aim is now a guaranteed bonus to Aimed Shot damage against targets above 80% health or below 20% health.


Trueshot has changed a lot over the years, but it’s currently not a very exciting button, and it could feel much more impactful when you use it. We like that it makes your Aimed Shot cast time reduced, so we’re keeping that, and it now additionally causes your Rapid Fire and Aimed Shot abilities to recharge significantly faster while Trueshot is active. The new version of Trueshot is a significant pacing change for its duration, allowing you to cast multiple Aimed Shots and Rapid Fires during its duration. We’re also lowering its cooldown from 3 minutes to 2 minutes.
Please end LW's ramp up time to make it even more of a choice. It'd perfect if you did.
Bring back the sidewinders build. Restore the bonus to lone wolf.
Please do not allow whoever made mm 8.0 to make any more decisions. Ever.
10/22/2018 09:51 PMPosted by Worganizm
Bring back the sidewinders build. Restore the bonus to lone wolf.


sidewinders was horrible please no. I do not wanna shot imaginary snakes from my bow. They should bring back Kill shot, Chimera shot like instant cd and lower the cast time on Aim shot then MM would be perfect.
10/22/2018 10:05 PMPosted by Shaytime
10/22/2018 09:51 PMPosted by Worganizm
Bring back the sidewinders build. Restore the bonus to lone wolf.


sidewinders was horrible please no. I do not wanna shot imaginary snakes from my bow. They should bring back Kill shot, Chimera shot like instant cd and lower the cast time on Aim shot then MM would be perfect.
sidewinders/mark shot is awesome for aoe, you don't like it doesn't mean it is no good. I would trade in trick shot with sidewinder markshot any day!
Id trade clunky trick shot for marked shot aoe back. Only fun thing in Legion was doing big pulls and seeing tons of arrows flying around.
I hate to be that guy, but the changes to shadow seem a lot more on-point with fixing the actual problems with the class than these. If this is really it - if this is our big fix, then it's looking like the hunter's gonna be put away for the rest of the expansion. Which is sad.
10/23/2018 07:15 AMPosted by Bertimus
I hate to be that guy, but the changes to shadow seem a lot more on-point with fixing the actual problems with the class than these. If this is really it - if this is our big fix, then it's looking like the hunter's gonna be put away for the rest of the expansion. Which is sad.
in all fairness I can that they would have known about shadow before marks. We suffer from a dominant azerite trait interacting with a talent and low throughout (from a pve perspective). I did not come into the xpac thinking marks was Doa, but it was clear shadow was. So just from a time stand point they were working on shadow changes for longer. I would expect those to address the issues a little better.
10/23/2018 11:07 AMPosted by Kajeron
in all fairness I can that they would have known about shadow before marks. We suffer from a dominant azerite trait interacting with a talent and low throughout (from a pve perspective). I did not come into the xpac thinking marks was Doa, but it was clear shadow was. So just from a time stand point they were working on shadow changes for longer. I would expect those to address the issues a little better.


Idk. Most of us in beta thought it was DoA and have been expressing the same concerns since like May so..
10/23/2018 11:07 AMPosted by Kajeron
10/23/2018 07:15 AMPosted by Bertimus
I hate to be that guy, but the changes to shadow seem a lot more on-point with fixing the actual problems with the class than these. If this is really it - if this is our big fix, then it's looking like the hunter's gonna be put away for the rest of the expansion. Which is sad.
in all fairness I can that they would have known about shadow before marks. We suffer from a dominant azerite trait interacting with a talent and low throughout (from a pve perspective). I did not come into the xpac thinking marks was Doa, but it was clear shadow was. So just from a time stand point they were working on shadow changes for longer. I would expect those to address the issues a little better.


not really almsot all the issues MM has were discussed and ignored in Beta. before people even figured out which azerite traits were best.
I have a different perspective then most. I think the class is great aside from throughput without steady aim. Steady aim combined with abysmal throughput compound having to use the build.

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