If LFR helps WoW, why are subs at an all time low?

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11/09/2018 02:44 PMPosted by Yellowbus
Now you just spam frostbolt and get EPIC gear.


True story, but that's exactly how mages raided in Vanilla, lol.
I don't think the two are directly related..
I really wish schools in the US would teach logic and critical thinking again.
Because BFA is terribad? How is that LFR's fault? LFR has barely even started this expac.

You are reaching my friend
11/09/2018 09:45 AMPosted by Zeerionjax
Subs are low because we have a completely clueless, incompetent and inept dev team.

Semper Fi!

C'mon Zeronjax tell us how you really feel :) BTW have totally missed you, glad you're back.
11/09/2018 03:04 PMPosted by Brahmina
I really wish schools in the US would teach logic and critical thinking again.

Again?

When did they ever?
"If LFR helps WoW, why are subs at an all time low?"

I don't believe that they are at an all time low.

And I don't believe your "reason" for why they are.

I know that less than half of the playerbase does ANY raiding. A blizzard dev mentioned that in a 2016 public interview. Less than half raid; less than half pvp; less than half do anything else that the game supports.

So any issue that OP has with Raiding can't by the "why" for sub numbers.
11/08/2018 10:17 PMPosted by Magnemyte
1.7 million subs is NOT a good number for the game...


It's been stated that this number was not correct, that the number is no where near what was tweeted, even the group that provided that number have stated this.

11/08/2018 10:17 PMPosted by Magnemyte
If WoW had more of a community + more RPG gameplay maybe more people would play? The LFR gameplay is dissatisfying to the spirit, people react better to the carrot than the stick.


But I guess any number can be used to justify posting against a system you may not find personally fulfilling.

In this case, LFR is a very casual friendly alternative to other forms of raiding, and gives players who might not be able to fit with in a more structured schedule to normal, heroic or mythic raiding, and time and again in the past it's been shown that more players play the content when accessibility is highest, which encourages players to maybe move beyond and try harder levels of content they might not otherwise have been comfortable with in the past.
Dont get vaccines either, they cuase autism
11/08/2018 10:17 PMPosted by Magnemyte
1.7 million subs is NOT a good number for the game... If WoW had more of a community + more RPG gameplay maybe more people would play? The LFR gameplay is dissatisfying to the spirit, people react better to the carrot than the stick.


People that play World of Warcraft are for the most part, not High School kids.

The average age is probably somewhere around ~30 years old, and that is an important number.

That means that most people that play World of Warcraft are not in an environment where they can meet other gamers such as themselves.

No LFR type mechanisms would make the game nonviable to the majority of the customer base.

"Oh but why can you not meet people in game?"

Because when you are ~30 years old, you do not have the time to live inside a video game and maintain those friendships and connections, those things take time.

The kind of time most World of Warcraft players do not have, and something Blizzard has yet to realize.

Subscriptions are not low because of LFR, they are low because Blizzard got nearly everything wrong for Battle of Azeroth.
If bailing water out of a ship helps to keep it afloat, why is the ship sinking?

Geez, get rid of bailing water.
11/08/2018 10:26 PMPosted by Grimwulf
11/08/2018 10:17 PMPosted by Magnemyte
1.7 million subs is NOT a good number for the game... If WoW had more of a community + more RPG gameplay maybe more people would play? The LFR gameplay is dissatisfying to the spirit, people react better to the carrot than the stick.


Without LFR there would be no more raiding, Blizz has stated this for the reason why it was introduced long after they said they would never create such a system.

It wasn't worth spending the resources to create raids when only a tiny fraction of the player base were doing them.

And even with how much easier it is to get into raids using the new LFG tool now, still not enough people are doing them which is why Blizz has made Mythic+ their new endgame focus.

Bottom line is the majority of people do not like raiding, never have, and never will, so LFR has nothing to do with any sub losses.


You should have 200 likes, because you have written the 100% truth of why LFR was created, and exactly why raiding is on the decline. I will bet my left arm theres still more players doing LFR than there is raiding normal and above. Especially since there is zilch for special drops for killing the Gman at the end.

Great response. Thanks.
Because LFR isn't behind the sub loss.
If subs are dropping it has nothing to do with lfr. And honestly who cares if they remove it. They will just add something else to queue and get gear from.
So ur with ur loot and yur making out wen the phone rigns. U anser it n the vioce is "wut r u doing wit my epix?" U tell ur girl n she say "classic is ded". THEN WHO WAS LFR?
LFR, mission tables, pet battles, class halls. garrisons, artifact weapons, azerite grind are all gimmicks to make up for the lack of MMORPG elements. Elements such as meaningful progressions, having to get food for pets or making arrows, gear vendors, trying to improve weapon skills....all these things are what an MMORPG is about. Current Blizz devs have single handedly turned the game into a giant queue lobby so you can go hit their RNG gear slot machine.

When vanilla came out it was very much an MMORPG. But what is MMORPG? The best way to look at is a form of immersion based on mechanics found in real life. Wanna swing a sword well...go practice. Wanna have a pet....go get food. Need some pants....go buy some. All of this translates into something the majority can have a familiarity to...it isn't RL but in a way it is a close approximate.

Since Wraith Blizz has been focusing on more and more gimmicks that often, it seems, employ a queue of some sort. Wanna go to warfronts? Get in a queue. Wanna go do island expeditions? Get in a queue. Some of the gimmicks might not be a queue but some involve an instance instead...such as the dreaded garrisons. But again to do the garrisons it involved leaving the world to go into you little profession bubble. But why is this having a negative effect.

Blizz does not play the game like you or I do. Sure they log on to check out a raid or dungeon. They might even pop in to see what people are complaining about in regards to a quest....but this is not playing the game. So when the devs pat themselves on the back over mission table and garrisons the majority of the players are thinking WTH is this? Blizz, of course, does not listen to advise or feedback. Spread sheets show people playing the mission tables so therefore people like them. A bajillion turtles were returned to the ocean so therefore the quest must be great. This is the inherent problem with spread sheets as facts and a dev team that do not play MMORPGs.

The game is crap right now. It goes beyond the LFR but the LFR shows the issue nicely. Hop in a queue and get some MnMs for pulling the lever....this is not what an MMORPG is supposed to be.

If Blizz wants to return to an MMORPG then the next xpac needs to have slower leveling, 30-40 to the next level cap. Make professions important other than making gold. Get rid of the weapon or gear gimmicks called artifact and put the abilities into the classes were they belong (1 new ability every 10 levels and 1 talent every 20). Quit retooling the classes every xpac. If you have something that involves warfronts or island expeditions make it more like wintergrasp where there is a set timer to go do it and it feels like part of the world instead of something you magically appear at.
LFR not the reason the game is losing subs. People in general are moving on from WOW for number of reasons. A lot will do the next patch raid for a month or two and wait for next raid to come out.
Keep in mind that the only players who can post on this forum are paying the sub. Most players that weren't fans of the trivialization of the game left a while ago.

Current year WoW only caters to the top and bottom 10% of the playerbase, they alienated semi-core, core, and semi-hardcore gamers with much of the modern accessibility focused design. These players don't have voices here.
The subs were at an all time high at the time when there was the most clipping into our gear.

#BringBackArmorClipping.
Honestly for me it comes down to gearing. I have 5 120's (Warr, Pala, Rogue, Hunter, DH) but I log on to gear one of them and find myself doing the same thing I've already done many times already in this expansion

Mythic + just arent fun enough for me to grind out, its more of a stress thing like oh is my group good enough to beat the timer

And not to mention for some reason in this xpac I feel like the gear hardly helps compared to how hard everything is hitting. Yeah I understand we are level 120 now but hey I feel like our gear isn't really doing much

Example: When my DH hit 120 I was pulling insane dps with like 280 item level, now at 350 item level for my DH, yes I'm pulling better dps, but not that much better

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