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I bet 750 thousand at least log in at the same time haha. Probably millions.


You're not going to have 750 thousand people on 1 server. Vanilla was designed around a server population of 2500-3000 max. If they up that a little fine, but if you put too many players on a server, you're going to over crowd it, whether you shard the starting zones or not.
Server size wont be 3k. they wouldn't even be talking about sharding if that was the case. They're going to shoot for around 7.5k- 10k. Mark my words on that because I think you fail at thinking about numbers. 2500 people is laughable. You'll need 400 server per million, Impossible man. You're so clueless it's not funny. Over crowded isn't the problem like I said. it's about everyone logging on at the same time. Hundreds of thousands of people creating toons, You have no idea. Just stop even commenting. I would enjoy having a conversation but we're making the same points over and over. So please go to another thread. This community kills me. They want super small server sizes and no shards? Poor blizzard because they're not going to able to do both lol
11/13/2018 10:46 PMPosted by Plewtoe
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You're not going to have 750 thousand people on 1 server. Vanilla was designed around a server population of 2500-3000 max. If they up that a little fine, but if you put too many players on a server, you're going to over crowd it, whether you shard the starting zones or not.
Server size wont be 3k. they wouldn't even be talking about sharding if that was the case. They're going to shoot for around 7.5k- 10k. Mark my words on that because I think you fail at thinking about numbers. 2500 people is laughable. You'll need 400 server per million, Impossible man. You're so clueless it's not funny. Over crowded isn't the problem like I said. it's about everyone logging on at the same time. Hundreds of thousands of people creating toons, You have no idea. Just stop even commenting. I would enjoy having a conversation but we're making the same points over and over. So please go to another thread. This community kills me. They want super small server sizes and no shards? Poor blizzard because they're not going to able to do both lol


You put 10k people on a classic server and you're going to over crowd it. There is no way around this. The original game was designed around a server population of 2500-3000 people.

And no, we're not both making the same points. We're making points and you're dodging answering questions or yelling about things that make no sense.

And I think it's you who fails at thinking about those numbers. Yeah, you'd need 400 per servers per million at a 2500 player cap. But, as it turns out, not everyone plays at the same time. So you may have 2500 on 1 server at peak hours. They all log off and then you've got another 2000 that play throughout the night, then another 1500 that play through the day. Yes, there will be over lap and for simplicity we'll say 100 player over lap into each different time frame. That's 5700 individuals on 1 server. More then double the 2.5k player cap. Suddenly that 400 is down to less than 200 per million.

Say you double the player cap to 5k. In that scenario, you've got 5000 at peak hours, 4000 over night, and 3000 during the day. Add over lap of 200 per for simplicity. And then you've got a server with 11400 players on it. Anything more then 5k and you're going to start over crowding the server and not having enough resources to go around.
11/13/2018 09:25 PMPosted by Plewtoe
Why do people make such a big deal over sharding the STARTING zones for 2 weeks? You did get that right?.


First of all a lot of people aren't against sharding in the starting zones for 2 weeks, people are worried that it won't end in the starting zones. I for one after Blizzcon am not worried about it at all, they really seem to understand how bad permanent sharding would be for Classic. Sharding for a week when people only experience for an hour or so is irrelevant and completely harmless. I agree with the sentiment that is being expressed about how sharding outside of the very temporary limitations they've outlined should not be in the game.

That being said those that are adamant against sharding in any form at any time are being ridiculous. They aren't going to care after that first week when sharding is gone and will never return (except maybe for the AQ event and that would be strictly if the servers couldn't remain stable with an entire population in Silithus).

11/13/2018 09:30 PMPosted by Velossena
But guess what. When you shard all those people off and they all get their starting zone done. And they all end up in the next zone together. Back to that flood people that make doing anything difficult. What then? Shard the 10-20 zones? Or say just deal with it?


There is a colossal difference between the starting zone and the secondary zones and we'll use the human starting zone as an example. That's 1/6 the population in Northshire Abby, for a 3k cap that's 500 people. 500 people in one little area with one single chain of quests will be a complete nightmare. Using shards through northshire abby and Elwynn gives say 4-5 hours of gameplay. By the time you're done Elwynn the rest of the population is either starting Redrige, questing in redridge ahead of you, finished redridge and moved on to STV or duskwood, starting westfall, questing in westfall ahead of you, finished westfall and moved on to STV or duskwood, still questing in Elwynn, logged off, starting a new toon on a different server or on this server.

The point is by the time you leave the sharded area you're now dealing with 1/5 to 1/10 the population. Now you're competing with 50-100 other players instead of 500 which is a completely reasonable (and easy) line to draw in the sand where sharding ends. It will only get better as time goes on and people spread out even more which will lessen the need more and more for sharding to ever be needed again.

11/13/2018 09:34 PMPosted by Aranhod
The issue that sharding seeks to resolve does not occur solely at launch, but repeats with increasing frequency in relation to the health of the server community.


The only other possible time sharding will ever be needed in Classic is for the AQ event. That however would only be for server stability if the servers can't actually handle 3000 players all in the same zone. With some of the Nost videos I doubt that would be the case so I don't even see a need for sharding during that. there's literally no other need for sharding in Classic, I'm not sure what people are worried Blizzard is going to bring sharding back for.
<span class="truncated">...</span> Server size wont be 3k. they wouldn't even be talking about sharding if that was the case. They're going to shoot for around 7.5k- 10k. Mark my words on that because I think you fail at thinking about numbers. 2500 people is laughable. You'll need 400 server per million, Impossible man. You're so clueless it's not funny. Over crowded isn't the problem like I said. it's about everyone logging on at the same time. Hundreds of thousands of people creating toons, You have no idea. Just stop even commenting. I would enjoy having a conversation but we're making the same points over and over. So please go to another thread. This community kills me. They want super small server sizes and no shards? Poor blizzard because they're not going to able to do both lol


You put 10k people on a classic server and you're going to over crowd it. There is no way around this. The original game was designed around a server population of 2500-3000 people.

And no, we're not both making the same points. We're making points and you're dodging answering questions or yelling about things that make no sense.

And I think it's you who fails at thinking about those numbers. Yeah, you'd need 400 per servers per million at a 2500 player cap. But, as it turns out, not everyone plays at the same time. So you may have 2500 on 1 server at peak hours. They all log off and then you've got another 2000 that play throughout the night, then another 1500 that play through the day. Yes, there will be over lap and for simplicity we'll say 100 player over lap into each different time frame. That's 5700 individuals on 1 server. More then double the 2.5k player cap. Suddenly that 400 is down to less than 200 per million.

Say you double the player cap to 5k. In that scenario, you've got 5000 at peak hours, 4000 over night, and 3000 during the day. Add over lap of 200 per for simplicity. And then you've got a server with 11400 players on it. Anything more then 5k and you're going to start over crowding the server and not having enough resources to go around.


Your 200 servers is still probably 10 times higher than blizzard wants to go lol. They'll use BfA shards and have 20-25 servers at 10k pop. numbers are far more realistic than what you're thinking. That's only per million as well. What if the full 1.4 million come from private servers ( Most are shutting down )or how about the 3 million that's playing BfA? What about the people waiting for launch playing other games? I think this is a lot bigger than you think. It's probably bigger than I even think. So with your numbers. What if 3 million pay and we need 600 servers? I'm done with this though, Not even coming back to these forums after this post. Hope you enjoy the shards in the summer.
There is a colossal difference between the starting zone and the secondary zones and we'll use the human starting zone as an example. That's 1/6 the population in Northshire Abby, for a 3k cap that's 500 people. 500 people in one little area with one single chain of quests will be a complete nightmare. Using shards through northshire abby and Elwynn gives say 4-5 hours of gameplay. By the time you're done Elwynn the rest of the population is either starting Redrige, questing in redridge ahead of you, finished redridge and moved on to STV or duskwood, starting westfall, questing in westfall ahead of you, finished westfall and moved on to STV or duskwood, still questing in Elwynn, logged off, starting a new toon on a different server or on this server.


Great for the humans. What about all the Night Elves who are spilling into Darkshore, or the dwarves/gnomes into Loch Modan, or the orcs/trolls/tauren and eventually some forsaken who are all spilling into the barrens? Sure the humans get their load cut, but no one else does. If you can handle competition in the secondary zones, you can handle it in the starting zone. And at that point it's not just quests you're competing for. It's nodes for mining/gathering and beasts for skinning and other mobs that drop crafting mats.
11/13/2018 09:34 PMPosted by Plewtoe
To assume is something a liberal would do.


Aaaand troll detected.
after that first week when sharding is gone and will never return (except maybe for the AQ event


I love how all these pro sharding advocates with instant gratification, convenience oriented mindsets claim that "sharding will only be for X amount if time and only in the starting areas", and then in the next breath add "and maybe for the AQ event", "and maybe under Y circumstances" or "and maybe in this area/these areas, too".

It would appear that even the pro sharding advocates who don't want to have to compete for mobs, quest objects or resources and so would have us blindly take Blizzard's word that "sharding will only be used in the starting areas and only for a brief time" as Gospel don't believe Blizzard.
11/13/2018 11:18 PMPosted by Velossena
There is a colossal difference between the starting zone and the secondary zones and we'll use the human starting zone as an example. That's 1/6 the population in Northshire Abby, for a 3k cap that's 500 people. 500 people in one little area with one single chain of quests will be a complete nightmare. Using shards through northshire abby and Elwynn gives say 4-5 hours of gameplay. By the time you're done Elwynn the rest of the population is either starting Redrige, questing in redridge ahead of you, finished redridge and moved on to STV or duskwood, starting westfall, questing in westfall ahead of you, finished westfall and moved on to STV or duskwood, still questing in Elwynn, logged off, starting a new toon on a different server or on this server.


Great for the humans. What about all the Night Elves who are spilling into Darkshore, or the dwarves/gnomes into Loch Modan, or the orcs/trolls/tauren and eventually some forsaken who are all spilling into the barrens? Sure the humans get their load cut, but no one else does. If you can handle competition in the secondary zones, you can handle it in the starting zone. And at that point it's not just quests you're competing for. It's nodes for mining/gathering and beasts for skinning and other mobs that drop crafting mats.


At that point you have the option to go to any secondary zone. Nelfs and dwarfs gnomes can come to westfall or redridge while humans can go to loch modan or darkshore. So 1500 at the start split 15 ways after starting zones. The point is the population is going to be about 1/10 the size wherever you go after the starting zones which is a very clear and easily drawn line for sharding
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Great for the humans. What about all the Night Elves who are spilling into Darkshore, or the dwarves/gnomes into Loch Modan, or the orcs/trolls/tauren and eventually some forsaken who are all spilling into the barrens? Sure the humans get their load cut, but no one else does. If you can handle competition in the secondary zones, you can handle it in the starting zone. And at that point it's not just quests you're competing for. It's nodes for mining/gathering and beasts for skinning and other mobs that drop crafting mats.


At that point you have the option to go to any secondary zone. Nelfs and dwarfs gnomes can come to westfall or redridge while humans can go to loch modan or darkshore. So 1500 at the start split 15 ways after starting zones. The point is the population is going to be about 1/10 the size wherever you go after the starting zones which is a very clear and easily drawn line for sharding


So... you're saying because I rolled a night elf when I get to the secondary zone and run into the 400 other people I didn't have to deal with because of sharding, I can go to Westfall or Redridge, wasting a huge time investment getting there because there is no direct route from Teldrassil to Stormwind, in hopes of having less competition and hoping 100 other night elves don't have that same idea and end having to fight them for everything and any stragglers from Elwyn?

Why not just not have sharding and then everyone gets spread out naturally at the start, and depending on how quickly I get my starting zone done, determines where I am in the pipeline and then and you get this nice linear progression of people/small groups vs 400 people hitting the secondary zone at 1 time.
11/13/2018 11:27 PMPosted by Ratsmats
after that first week when sharding is gone and will never return (except maybe for the AQ event


I love how all these pro sharding advocates with instant gratification, convenience oriented mindsets claim that "sharding will only be for X amount if time and only in the starting areas", and then in the next breath add "and maybe for the AQ event", "and maybe under Y circumstances" or "and maybe in this area/these areas, too".

It would appear that even the pro sharding advocates who don't want to have to compete for mobs, quest objects or resources and so would have us blindly take Blizzard's word that "sharding will only be used in the starting areas and only for a brief time" as Gospel don't believe Blizzard.


Instant gratification and convenience?
Were you even around for the original aq opening on a full server? I was and I, along with everyone else on the server never got to experience it because the server constantly went down, turned into a slideshow and kept kicking us back out into a server queue because it couldnt handle it. If The choice is going through that again or being able to experience it with the server sharded in two I choose the server sharded in two. I expect technology has advanced to a point where sharding wont be needed but its the only other possible time in a clasdic servers life where sharding might be a solution
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At that point you have the option to go to any secondary zone. Nelfs and dwarfs gnomes can come to westfall or redridge while humans can go to loch modan or darkshore. So 1500 at the start split 15 ways after starting zones. The point is the population is going to be about 1/10 the size wherever you go after the starting zones which is a very clear and easily drawn line for sharding


So... you're saying because I rolled a night elf when I get to the secondary zone and run into the 400 other people I didn't have to deal with because of sharding, I can go to Westfall or Redridge, wasting a huge time investment getting there because there is no direct route from Teldrassil to Stormwind, in hopes of having less competition and hoping 100 other night elves don't have that same idea and end having to fight them for everything and any stragglers from Elwyn?

Why not just not have sharding and then everyone gets spread out naturally at the start, and depending on how quickly I get my starting zone done, determines where I am in the pipeline and then and you get this nice linear progression of people/small groups vs 400 people hitting the secondary zone at 1 time.


The person to whom you are responding has already admitted that they intend to race to 60 in the hopes of clearing MC in the first two weeks, if not the first week. They have admitted that they do not want to have to compete for anything.

It would appear that they want any "obstacles" that impede their rush to 60 removed, even if said obstacle removal hurts the game in the long run.
11/13/2018 11:36 PMPosted by Velossena
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At that point you have the option to go to any secondary zone. Nelfs and dwarfs gnomes can come to westfall or redridge while humans can go to loch modan or darkshore. So 1500 at the start split 15 ways after starting zones. The point is the population is going to be about 1/10 the size wherever you go after the starting zones which is a very clear and easily drawn line for sharding


So... you're saying because I rolled a night elf when I get to the secondary zone and run into the 400 other people I didn't have to deal with because of sharding, I can go to Westfall or Redridge, wasting a huge time investment getting there because there is no direct route from Teldrassil to Stormwind, in hopes of having less competition and hoping 100 other night elves don't have that same idea and end having to fight them for everything and any stragglers from Elwyn?

Why not just not have sharding and then everyone gets spread out naturally at the start, and depending on how quickly I get my starting zone done, determines where I am in the pipeline and then and you get this nice linear progression of people/small groups vs 400 people hitting the secondary zone at 1 time.

Because sharding makes the world feel more empty?
Because sharding can screw with planned world PvP or city/world boss raids?

No. If we have to deal with sharding it should be just as blizzard says. Starting zones only. And limited time only.
11/13/2018 11:27 PMPosted by Ratsmats
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I love how all these pro sharding advocates with instant gratification, convenience oriented mindsets claim that "sharding will only be for X amount if time and only in the starting areas", and then in the next breath add "and maybe for the AQ event", "and maybe under Y circumstances" or "and maybe in this area/these areas, too".

It would appear that even the pro sharding advocates who don't want to have to compete for mobs, quest objects or resources and so would have us blindly take Blizzard's word that "sharding will only be used in the starting areas and only for a brief time" as Gospel don't believe Blizzard.


Instant gratification and convenience?
Were you even around for the original aq opening on a full server? I was and I, along with everyone else on the server never got to experience it because the server constantly went down, turned into a slideshow and kept kicking us back out into a server queue because it couldnt handle it. If The choice is going through that again or being able to experience it with the server sharded in two I choose the server sharded in two. I expect technology has advanced to a point where sharding wont be needed but its the only other possible time in a clasdic servers life where sharding might be a solution


I was around for that event and I remember very well how many people were trying to experience that event.

That does not negate the fact that you would have us take Blizzard's word that "sharding will only be in the starting areas and only for a brief time" as Gospel, but admit that you at least believe that sharding will be used beyond those starting areas and used long after launch, if you do not outright want sharding applied beyond those starting areas and long after launch.
11/13/2018 10:46 PMPosted by Plewtoe
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You're not going to have 750 thousand people on 1 server. Vanilla was designed around a server population of 2500-3000 max. If they up that a little fine, but if you put too many players on a server, you're going to over crowd it, whether you shard the starting zones or not.
Server size wont be 3k. they wouldn't even be talking about sharding if that was the case. They're going to shoot for around 7.5k- 10k. Mark my words on that because I think you fail at thinking about numbers. 2500 people is laughable. You'll need 400 server per million, Impossible man. You're so clueless it's not funny. Over crowded isn't the problem like I said. it's about everyone logging on at the same time. Hundreds of thousands of people creating toons, You have no idea. Just stop even commenting. I would enjoy having a conversation but we're making the same points over and over. So please go to another thread. This community kills me. They want super small server sizes and no shards? Poor blizzard because they're not going to able to do both lol


The last pserver launch had ~10k. Zones were crowded well past the starting zone. Questing was near impossible for the first 35 levels.

In order to keep sharding in the starting zones, server cap could be no more than ~3500. Above that and crowding starts spilling over into more zones.

This isn't speculation, this is based on experience playing pserver launches.
11/13/2018 11:36 PMPosted by Velossena
So... you're saying because I rolled a night elf when I get to the secondary zone and run into the 400 other people I didn't have to deal with because of sharding, I can go to Westfall or Redridge, wasting a huge time investment getting there because there is no direct route from Teldrassil to Stormwind, in hopes of having less competition and hoping 100 other night elves don't have that same idea and end having to fight them for everything and any stragglers from Elwyn?


Yes, because at least at that point you have many options (lots of zones availale to quest in or areas with mobs to grind), you don't have options at the starting zones and that's the entire point. You end sharding once you have options available to you, it's a very clear and distinct line to draw.

11/13/2018 11:43 PMPosted by Ratsmats
The person to whom you are responding has already admitted that they intend to race to 60 in the hopes of clearing MC in the first two weeks, if not the first week. They have admitted that they do not want to have to compete for anything.

It would appear that they want any "obstacles" that impede their rush to 60 removed, even if said obstacle removal hurts the game in the long run.


You sound a little bitter. I won't be upset if sharding doesn't happen, in half a day I won't have any competition anyways so a few hours of fighting for quests is mobs isn't really a big deal to me. Furthermore I have plans for sharded classic and non-sharded classic so either way, it doesn't bother me that much. Using sharding at the start is just a better experience for the vast majority of people, it's simply the better option.
Yes, because at least at that point you have many options (lots of zones availale to quest in or areas with mobs to grind), you don't have options at the starting zones and that's the entire point. You end sharding once you have options available to you, it's a very clear and distinct line to draw.


Great choices. 2 crowded zones or 2 slightly less crowded zones that are going to take 20+ minutes to get to from Teldrassil.
11/13/2018 11:49 PMPosted by Ratsmats
That does not negate the fact that you would have us take Blizzard's word that "sharding will only be in the starting areas and only for a brief time" as Gospel, but admit that you at least believe that sharding will be used beyond those starting areas and used long after launch, if you do not outright want sharding applied beyond those starting areas and long after launch.


Yes, I believe sharding has a chance to be used during one single, specific time post launch for maybe a couple of hours. Those are literally the only instances sharding will ever be needed. People seem to be worried that if Blizzard uses sharding once that, oh no! that cats out of the bag! Sharding could be used anywhere at any time now! There is no other scenario that warrants sharding and this irrational fear people have of persistent sharding is extremely unfounded.
11/13/2018 11:59 PMPosted by Velossena
Great choices. 2 crowded zones or 2 slightly less crowded zones that are going to take 20+ minutes to get to from Teldrassil.


4 zones which will spread out only a portion of all starting players (the other players will have logged off, still be in the starting zones or already be ahead)

Those are infinitely better choices than you will have in the starting zones with significantly fewer people to complete with.
1. Sharding/phasing was never a thing in classic. The launch surge was an epic fight for quest mobs and loot that forced player interaction aka partying up or making enemies.

2. Loot trading was never a thing in classic. Ninja looting was a real thing and that united the community anf made it feel alive. It was a crime you could commit in the game with real consequences.

We ordered vanilla. Not vanilla with sprinkles and streamlined hand holding baby coddling balogney.
11/13/2018 09:27 PMPosted by Igotsoul
If you trust the devs to implement sharding just at the start you are naive.

if I don't trust them I don't play their game. I know promise is a thing but how many time you can not do as you promise.

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