Chain Heal changes in the PTR

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What is the situation that this talent is designed for? What fight do you think you would take this talent? Maybe M fetid

Make High Tide charges accumulated by spending ~3 Tidal Waves charges.


I like this idea would work well if taking FF talent, would keep our other spells relevant as we would still need to cast rip tide to generate and HW/HS to consume.

My only concern is for shaman that take ES will find it difficult to generate TW for ST healing > not able to consume > not able to proc high tide. Could be resolved by making echo baseline as someone had mentioned earlier, which I would be all for as I usually always take echo.
Stacking high heals fight: Shaman heals the same, maybe bit better than other classes; spreading high heals fights: RL remove shaman from raid If has replaces...
IMO, If high Tide increase CH range, changing or not cost or hps according to what math shows, would help Shaman resto to keep his spot in this kind of encounters.
And of course need a bit more love in his niche.
10/22/2018 06:56 AMPosted by Pöttz
Stacking high heals fight: Shaman heals the same, maybe bit better than other classes; spreading high heals fights: RL remove shaman from raid If has replaces...
IMO, If high Tide increase CH range, changing or not cost or hps according to what math shows, would help Shaman resto to keep his spot in this kind of encounters.
And of course need a bit more love in his niche.


Yep.... Average in our own specific specialized "Niche" of stacked fights (which are rare types of boss encounters btw; quite few and far between), and terrible at anything that doesn't precisely fit our "niche"... That about sums up Resto Sham pve atm.

Also terribly designed from a healing-kit standpoint in M+.. Having to literally spam healing surge repeatedly to keep a group up. We legitimately do not have a usable party heal in M+ aside from healing rain that is extremely hard to get proper use out of due to its pitiful radius and the nature of dungeons in general.

Really hoping blizz listens to the feedback in this thread and makes some favorable changes to high tide so it can fill those areas, and possibly help us in other areas too.
10/18/2018 07:36 PMPosted by Germinate
10/18/2018 07:08 PMPosted by Sigma
Quick update: the buff will have a longer duration in the next build. It is intended to be less of a "press button when it lights up" proc, and more something you can plan to use. This also should take stress off of knowing exactly when it will trigger (which is not something we want the talent to be about micromanaging).


This wont change the fact that this talent is effectively a less reliable wellspring while being on the same row as it. This talent needs to be something for sustained AoE healing, not procing burst.


10/18/2018 07:43 PMPosted by Chihao
How much longer is a longer duration. And really change the activation condition or you'll have shamans spending mana before each fight to just get their stacks, cast a few more to get to around 15k to next set of high tide procs, drink mana, pull boss, use 2 chain heal, pick up next high tide proc, use them.
This became almost like a prepot mechanic now


I thought you couldn't make this talent sound worse. Lol pre cast proc before pull. This is totally what we Resto Shamans want LuL
We're not even kings of our niche anymore.

I would take getting our cd's back or making ES and Echo baseline.
Too much pruning has taken it's toll on resto shaman and it is very noticeable now with the removal of A/G and other tools/talents that used to be taken to offset weaknesses in spread fights.

Resto shaman was my main for so long but I got lucky by deciding to try a new healer mid Legion that I rarely played before. It hurts me to say this but I am kinda glad I left my shaman when I did but it is sad to see what is happening to my old main healer's toolkit and abilities. I did plan to eventually level him next to max but I might look at other healers if nothing changes for 8.1. The CH change sounds weird too and counter productive to the issues making resto currently painful to play.
10/24/2018 12:44 AMPosted by Eracon
Too much pruning


Pretty much sums it up.
Further changes (nerfs) on the PTR (Apparently it was too strong? I'm seriously confused).

High Tide is now:

"Every 40,000 mana you spend brings a High Tide, making your next 2 Chain Heals heal for an additional 20% and not reduce with each jump". (This was 30,000 mana before the nerf).

The duration of the High Tide buff is now 25 seconds btw, so was increased a bit. (boohoo; marginal if any impact).

Unleash Life is now nerfed on the PTR. it's 35% on the next direct heal, as opposed to 45% on live.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but was it not 30k mana before? So the mana spent requirement was actually INCREASED? Also no other aspects of the talent were buffed, no additional targets affected by chain heal, no additional range on chain heal, etc.

So I effectively have to spend almost half of my mana pool (excluding regen) in order to obtain a high tide buff? To heal a rather lackluster 4 people at a time?

My thoughts: This High Tide feels like something that would be solid for Mythic+ as a decent burst party heal after spamming out a bunch of healing surges, however I am extremely skeptical of it for raiding.. Feels like it'll be a Wellspring raid tier coming up once again as I don't see this high tide iteration beating it out on any type of fight; especially now after the mana requirement was increased to 40k (a change which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever).

Inb4 Wellspring also gets nerfed on the PTR now to "increase High Tide viability".. Can see it coming already.
10/24/2018 01:30 AMPosted by Prolificz
Unleash Life is now nerfed on the PTR. it's 35% on the next direct heal, as opposed to 45% on live.


From my understanding they buffed the SP coefficient but I don't think that makes up for it.

Also if High Tide change is true then that is just silly beyond imagination. Such an exceedingly high limiter should have insane burst to compensate but that doesn't seem likely.
10/18/2018 06:44 AMPosted by Prolificz
10/17/2018 06:05 PMPosted by Koorr
In raids chain heal typically makes all the jumps (since there are 20 people and we can cast it on melee)


Yeah no.... there are many situations in raids where chain heal doesn't actually chain and just ends up being a wasted long cast. Are you familiar with what spread mechanics and raid mechanics in general are? It doesn't seem like it.

or while you're casting chain heal the targets that you're casting them on all get healed by far superior healing classes so you just have to stop the heal
Mathwise the UL stuff is a buff, it's just that it seems most people consider UL for the buffing the next spell aspect and not for the fact that its a super mana efficient instant cast heal for a decent amount.

The 30k number during a fight when raid testing didn't feel that problematic tbh and with how often you got them and the duration they felt hard to effectively use. The 40k is probably fine, though i'd want to do some actual play to make that call. Depending on what your casting that's only a couple extra heals and if you use your HT buffs, you've already fed significantly into the next HT due to casting chain heal given how much it costs and the fact that mana costs roll over and still accumulate when you have the buff. It'll probably be easier to game it for a burst period to get 4 buffed chain heals in a row this way as well.
10/24/2018 07:14 AMPosted by Twisp
Mathwise the UL stuff is a buff, it's just that it seems most people consider UL for the buffing the next spell aspect and not for the fact that its a super mana efficient instant cast heal for a decent amount.

The 30k number during a fight when raid testing didn't feel that problematic tbh and with how often you got them and the duration they felt hard to effectively use. The 40k is probably fine, though i'd want to do some actual play to make that call. Depending on what your casting that's only a couple extra heals and if you use your HT buffs, you've already fed significantly into the next HT due to casting chain heal given how much it costs and the fact that mana costs roll over and still accumulate when you have the buff. It'll probably be easier to game it for a burst period to get 4 buffed chain heals in a row this way as well.


Thats 80k mana .... to get 4 buffed chain heals in a row
Yes, that is how 40k * 2 works. Thankfully you're not spending it all at once!

It sounds like you ignored every other aspect of how setting that up works and why you would do so in order to focus just on that singular mana number in a bubble. It'd be something to set up for predictable group damage on a regular enough basis that you couldn't cover it with asc and might not use wellspring for. I wouldn't use it over wellspring on say...vectis just with how it lines up so well with contagion casts, but a fight like Aggramar and his flame rends might be a suitable place. You could also feed them into a cbt for the degenerate legion style gameplay that was essentially a mini-cd on a regular basis.

Having played with the previous builds version in raid testing, the mana spend aspect isn't something to be really concerned about other than maybe tracking it with a weakaura if you're going to minmax it.
Even if it has insane burst the long cast time means your other healers wouldve topped everyone off by then unless the entire raid is sitting at 30% hp
10/24/2018 12:00 PMPosted by Twisp
Yes, that is how 40k * 2 works. Thankfully you're not spending it all at once!

It sounds like you ignored every other aspect of how setting that up works and why you would do so in order to focus just on that singular mana number in a bubble. It'd be something to set up for predictable group damage on a regular enough basis that you couldn't cover it with asc and might not use wellspring for. I wouldn't use it over wellspring on say...vectis just with how it lines up so well with contagion casts, but a fight like Aggramar and his flame rends might be a suitable place. You could also feed them into a cbt for the degenerate legion style gameplay that was essentially a mini-cd on a regular basis.

Having played with the previous builds version in raid testing, the mana spend aspect isn't something to be really concerned about other than maybe tracking it with a weakaura if you're going to minmax it.


Does High Tide stack? Can you have two of it and have the 2nd high tide refresh the duration back to 25s?

I didn't mean to IGNORE anything, just thinking on the top of my head. Sorry i cant relate with Agramar, i'm only a BFA player. My progression is only to 2/8 M in Uldir as well.

Do you bother with using a weak aura to track mana spent? Or do you just use High Tide on the PTR "passively" or whenever it comes up? How do shamans fare in the PTR vs other healers?
No, it replaces not refreshes or stacks.

I was kinda throwing stuff together on ptr so I didn't have an aura for testing that tracked mana usage, I would use one on live. It was largely passive but I did track the buff so I could still try to use it if i think I could get use out of a chain heal, especially an unleashed high tided heal.

As for what testing I've done (prior to the changes this build), I was outhealing the other healers who currently outheal me on live. I don't know how much of that would come down to how much work each of us put into a PTR UI, but, it was certainly better feeling in that sense compared to live. I did not try wellspring to compare though. I was mostly out to get some HT usage for the feel of it.
10/24/2018 06:53 PMPosted by Twisp
No, it replaces not refreshes or stacks.

I was kinda throwing stuff together on ptr so I didn't have an aura for testing that tracked mana usage, I would use one on live. It was largely passive but I did track the buff so I could still try to use it if i think I could get use out of a chain heal, especially an unleashed high tided heal.

As for what testing I've done (prior to the changes this build), I was outhealing the other healers who currently outheal me on live. I don't know how much of that would come down to how much work each of us put into a PTR UI, but, it was certainly better feeling in that sense compared to live. I did not try wellspring to compare though. I was mostly out to get some HT usage for the feel of it.


Im assuming chain heal and riptide were your top heals.

Did you use cloudburst or flash flood for your 90 talent?
cbt, just to see how it'd perform with ul/ht and if I felt it'd be better than dp/hst. I'm not really sure it would still.

ch>hw>cbt or rt mostly, my RT usage is usually !@#$. As much as I can advise folks on proper play, execution is a whole other matter :P I recently changed up my WA for RT on live to help with that because I know its an area of improvement I need to fix :P

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