Insult to Injury to the Horde

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10/25/2018 12:34 PMPosted by Samurix
here a history lesson. good read

https://www.engadget.com/2013/08/02/wow-archivist-when-blizzard-hated-the-horde/

Then you have this. I highly two of the ones .
https://www.wowhead.com/news=223528.40/world-of-warcraft-q-a-dungeons-and-raids-blog

The Horde took a pretty big hit lore-wise, and now the Alliance is strong. What can the Horde do to get back to that level?
They can faction change to Alliance! ;)

They have to rebuild and find a stronger core than ever before, which we'll see during Draenor.

Any plans to address racials--it's led to a faction imbalance.
We can balance various racials, tone down some of the Horde ones. Alliance racials currently have hit and expertise, and they don't exist anymore so we'll come up with something else. You should play the race you want to play. We're happy with racials like Darkflight and the goblin racial that offers active benefits, instead of talents that sim slightly better.


You know. I was seriously considering this at one point. But after all this self-righteous ,self-entitled, BS? Not in a million years.
10/25/2018 10:52 AMPosted by Andolfson
I've seen plenty of horde players who just do not care about Alliance story and just want more horde victories at the Alliance detriment. Just as I've seen Alliance players who do seem to care about the horde's side as well. Both types on either side are all over the forums. Please stop using such broad strokes.


This. Not all of the players on the Alliance are inmature children with a victim complex


Totally true. But they are not-rare and their comments beggar belief. Yes, there are bad Horde commenters to, but to have Blizzard dump all over my enjoyment and then have to put up with this !@#$%? Its just too much.

10/25/2018 10:58 AMPosted by Enekie
Your complaint seems to be that you're upset and emotional that the Horde are being forced to be evil.

Isn't that being remedied with Saurfang's nascent rebellion?


You meant the rebellion whose primary narrative is how it is gonna start becasue SI:7 deemed it a perfect way to improve Stormwind´s political agenda?

Sorry but in regards to lore and faction pride that goes as well as your own contrived Night Warrior narrative... stop being part of the problem dear, the misery of fellow Horde players won´t make things better for the Alliance nor the Night Elves in the long run.[/quote]
Totally true. But they are not-rare and their comments beggar belief. Yes, there are bad Horde commenters to, but to have Blizzard dump all over my enjoyment and then have to put up with this !@#$%? Its just too much.


Then put them on ignore and move on. Don´t waste time or energy into people that has the maturity and personality of a 5 year old spoiled brat, period.
The only truly awkward thing about the Horde vs Alliance conflict is the fact the horde have a large enough force to even fight the alliance, while being able to actually supply that force.

Canonically the horde don't really have resources, food or troops. and until Sylvannas recent power up don't have a faction leader "powerful" enough to truly fight any alliance faction leader.

Before Legion the horde would need Thrall, Saurfang, Sylvannas, Baine and even throw in Gallywix just to 5 v 1 Malfurion. Probably why the Horde cant suffer a "crushing defeat" they wouldn't be in a position to recoup as simply as the alliance do.

outside of the horde v alliance conflict the alliance don't actually have any natural catastrophes to deal with the people of Ironforge, Stormwind, Teldrassil actually live quite well.
10/25/2018 11:01 AMPosted by Enekie

Seems to me like the horde victories have all been pyrrhic, fracturing the leadership and losing a capital and lots of soldiers in the process

Also alliance losses should be expected considering Anduin is a fairly new, young, naive and inexperienced king and commander - but i think that would improve with time and experience


Bolded for emphasis because this is quite telling.

To Horde players, Alliance should expect to lose. There are dozens of reasons they should lose and they shouldn't expect anything that makes them happy.

But losses the Horde takes are shocking, unexpected. They don't feel they should have to endure that. They don't think the story should make them unhappy.

A Horde player's fear is that he will one day be treated like an Alliance player.


Blizzard, please pay attention to how insane these people sound. You will never make them happy. Ever. Stop trying to pander to them
10/25/2018 10:40 PMPosted by Orenrik
Blizzard, please pay attention to how insane these people sound. You will never make them happy. Ever. Stop trying to pander to them

It'd be nice if they did pander to the Alliance for once.
Not sure what alliance characters are saying, OMG what good writing. most of the alliance Ive seen are also in the same boat as you.
10/25/2018 10:30 AMPosted by Jessail
10/25/2018 10:26 AMPosted by Nemestrïnus
Siege of Dazar'alor will be a win for the alliance. they destroy most of the Zandalari fleet, blitz the city, steal back the Scepter of the Tides (or whatever it is called) that was the final objective of our war campaign, kill King Rastakhan (who had been empowered by Bwonsamdi) and then you get away with only Mekkatorque getting injured

As a player it doesn't feel like a victory to kill someone we don't need to and honestly have no emotional attachment to. Strategically it makes no sense either. We also get one of our faction leaders encased in the goblin equivalent of Kryptonite. So like lorderon "Victory" is a subjective term here, I'd say this has all the "Victory" of taking a hilltop during the vietnam war. It didn't matter, has no value, and was done to make the brass feel good.


umm.. so you think you should have a flawless victory with no loss? LMAO. oh no wasn't really a victory cos we lost someone. lol
You can set aside nitpicks about the story entirely, because honestly it was never War and Peace to begin with and it'd take a team of professional authors to unravel that mess.

The population disparity is worse and growing. Large chunks of content are either unplayable for the Alliance or very near to it. PvP, warmode, high end raiding. All of these options are difficult, and in some cases/servers, completely out of the question.

I'm not saying that Blizzard is sitting around in meetings thinking up ways to stick it to the Alliance, but I am saying the vast majority of them main Horde players. It feels like they're making content that they would enjoy, rather than taking a step back and asking what is good for the overall game. Some of them were hired directly from high end Horde raiding guilds. One of the writers is erping with Sylvanas on Twitter, a community manager is making jokes about how they'll never play Alliance (and how much they despise the entire player base, too, Horde included). Is it really so hard to imagine that these attitudes are trickling down into the content itself? A good example would be the absolute lack of passion and creativity in the initial Alliance rep mounts. Or in the absolute cringe-inducing writing of Nathanos. Or the embarrassing disparity in mythic raiding, or how warmode is essentially unplayable.

If they keep enabling this false narrative among rabid Horde superfans, I wouldn't be shocked if the disparity reaches 70/30 or even 80/20. It's going to keep going until you log in and Boralus is a complete ghost town of alts and tourists-- but oh wait, it already is.
10/25/2018 10:56 PMPosted by Aerumna
umm.. so you think you should have a flawless victory with no loss? LMAO. oh no wasn't really a victory cos we lost someone. lol

Oddly enough, the Alliance killing Rastakhan means that the leader sympathetic to the Horde is going to be installed and gives the Zandalari to the Horde. So the Horde gain something from it even though it's an, "Alliance victory".

Sure, we get mecha gnomes, but I don't know anyone who wanted those.
10/25/2018 10:58 PMPosted by Espur
Oddly enough, the Alliance killing Rastakhan means that the leader sympathetic to the Horde is going to be installed and gives the Zandalari to the Horde. So the Horde gain something from it even though it's an, "Alliance victory".

Sure, we get mecha gnomes, but I don't know anyone who wanted those.


PTR confirms Zandalari are Horde before the raid at least so no, we aren't giving them anything.

I don't think there's a problem with the raid itself, it's a win for the Alliance.

It's how characters act afterwards. Alliance characters pretty much mourn the whole thing. Blizz needs to actually let us feel we won if they want us to feel we won.
10/25/2018 11:45 AMPosted by Jessail
You completely misinterpreted what I said. What I said was that it was pointless to even attack. My dispute with with the poor writing, not with the horde. You seem to be taking as a personal opportunity to attack which lessens your argument and makes you seem petty.


"pointless to even attack?" Its a good thing people like you arent in charge of military decisions in real life. What the alliance accomplished with their attack was multi-fold

1) They took back a weapon of serious power that we spent an entire story line getting in the first place

2) They destroyed the entire purpose of the horde going to stormwind, rescuing talanji, and allying themselves with the trolls enough to do literally everything they did in BFA so far, trying to stop mythrax being revived, recusing the foxes from enslavement, trying to stop ghuuns lair from being opened, saving the king from the assassination attempt, allying with freaking Ryuk, and retaking the kingdom from the blood trolls. IN THE OPENING SHOT OF THE RAID YOU UNDO THE ENTIRE REASON FOR US BEING IN THIS AREA TO BEGIN WITH.

Which incidentally those two together is total crap. The end of alliance war campaign is placing bombs on the troll ships to be detonated when its time to invade, and the horde campaign is stealing the wand to use to destroy the alliance fleet. But for SOME reason your weapon gets to work, but ours doesnt, so alliance comes out of the thing with their navy completely intact and ours at the bottom of the bay.

3) You slay the leader of the zanalari, the guy who has been king for longer than every other leader has been alive except the night elf leaders, which will undoubtedly throw the kingdom into disarray and chaos for a while. Leaving them not only defenseless from point 2, but also ineffective at a leadership level as well, so not only defenseless but unorganized.

And for all of that, the "price" you pay? A gnome gets put in cryo-sleep and jania gets a boo-boo.

Yeah, theres a reason that theres a line about how after the raid the alliance leaders (greymane I think) remarks about how the horde could be completely crushed within a few weeks now and victory is all but assured to the alliance. The alliance gets not just a victory, not just 2, not just 3, but an overall victory so all encompassing that the ONLY reason the horde isn't going to be back in internment camps like the orcs were before wc3, is because manduin hesitates. THAT is the level of victory the alliance are handed by this fight.

It makes perfect sense to attack as they did, nothing about it is pointless at all. Not just from the way the story is written FOR the raid, but about how it is setup before hand. All the horde and alliance eggs are in one basket each, and the alliance gets written from there to crush the horde basket but protect their own at the same time.

I mean really, in terms of actual military strategy, where do you think this goes from here? If it were a real conflict, but no super weapons or space laser ships, just the kind of things we've seen used in game and in cutscenes thus far... who do you think wins here? The trolls will be in chaos for awhile, the horde without a navy and unable to strike at the alliance in the eastern kingdom (lets assume portals arent able to transport armies, because if they were then the navy is pointless anyway) or even defend silvermoon as its isolated as the only horde capital on that side of the world.

That leaves the alliance an easy march to victory over the blood elves since they wont be able to get any kind of aid, isolating the horde to kalimdor and stripping the blood elves of the sunwell so they'll eventually wither. If they're LUCKY then the arcandor fruit will work on them to and the nightborne can cure them so they don't wither, but that still leaves them without the sunwell AND puts the sunwell in the hands of the alliance AND gives them silvermoon city so they have an extra capital

MAYBE thats where they're going to go with this story.. some kind of truce that sees kalimdor handed to the horde entirely, and the EK the alliance, then void elves take over silvermoon and stupidly end up letting the void use the sunwell and unless void chaos on azeroth.. but who knows

Either way, the point is this: the alliance attack in 8.1 doesn't just "hurt" the horde, and it certainly isn't pointless. It utterly cripples them, destroys their entire storyline reason for being there, undoes everything they did in 8.0, and leaves the alliance in a position to crush the horde entirely before the month is over.... and you call that pointless?
10/25/2018 10:14 AMPosted by Tannaril
We have an expansion plot that had one blogger on the edge of tears at what they have done to the Horde


They need to grow the heck up.

Fact is all this ridiculous Horde Pride is killing the damn game.

They get to be the edgy grim dark characters and the misunderstood guys at the same time since vanilla. It's about time one of those things fell through.
10/25/2018 10:16 AMPosted by Nzhuv
...
LOL


Watch Trade Chat's blog on the Teldrassil cinematic.


The saddest thing here is the idea of a horde player crying on behalf of the horde for teldrassil.

But remember alliance are the only ones who play the victim card.
This expansion's story has been hilariously bad overall on both sides.
Blizzard is making a serious mistake by letting users write the story for them, all the new changes came from the "crying and tantrum" of almost the entire alliance. Now it seems that the horde is the most harmed (as always).

This is going to end badly.
10/25/2018 11:03 PMPosted by Puzle
2) They destroyed the entire purpose of the horde going to stormwind, rescuing talanji, and allying themselves with the trolls enough to do literally everything they did in BFA so far, trying to stop mythrax being revived, recusing the foxes from enslavement, trying to stop ghuuns lair from being opened, saving the king from the assassination attempt, allying with freaking Ryuk, and retaking the kingdom from the blood trolls. IN THE OPENING SHOT OF THE RAID YOU UNDO THE ENTIRE REASON FOR US BEING IN THIS AREA TO BEGIN WITH.

While I've made jokes about glass bottomed rowboats, you realize this doesn't mean anything, right? Just like Greymane magically forgot about preparing for the Blight before the Battle for Lordaeron, Wyrmbane seems to have left his knowledge of Forsaken tactics back in Northrend, because just sinking ships doesn't actually DO anything to stop them from raising a navy. You have to totally obliterate them from stem to stern.
10/25/2018 10:14 AMPosted by Tannaril
We have an expansion plot that had one blogger on the edge of tears at what they have done to the Horde.


Can y'all hear that? It's the sound of the typical 2018 male.....
10/25/2018 10:58 PMPosted by Sydarar
If they keep enabling this false narrative among rabid Horde superfans, I wouldn't be shocked if the disparity reaches 70/30 or even 80/20. It's going to keep going until you log in and Boralus is a complete ghost town of alts and tourists-- but oh wait, it already is.


You know why people don't play Alliance? You need me to lay this out for you? Fine, since this seems to be beyond people like you. ITS BECAUSE NO ONE WITH A BRAIN LIKES A MARY SUE, which is what the entire Alliance is made out to be in the story. NOTHING about the alliance leadership or quests or anything is ever REALLY morally questionable or gray, you've been "the good guys" since WoW started and this has only gotten worse as times gone on.

Your quest lines are all about saving/helping/do-goodery, you're always (with very few exceptions) painted as the good guys, you're always the good guys in story conflicts. I mean name me one other major conflict between the horde and alliance where the horde painted as good and the alliance as at LEAST morally questionable.. I'll just be over here waiting.

I mean think about it, as far back as BC, the would-be blood elf leader got turned into a raid boss baddie, silvermoon was attacked from the backside, and your do-goody goat people are the only reason the blood elves aren't all withered husks, hooray alliance save the day

Or how about LK? Alliance are painted as the heroic leaders with bolvar and then the victims of an awful betrayal, the only morally dubious thing that happens for the alliance happens here when Varian attacks the horde leaders but oh lookie there, your emo mary sue comes in to save the day and stop the icky conflict.

Pandaland, your boy soon-to-be-king stops the icky horde using his love hammer but gets booboos and then from then on "aches whenever he is on the wrong path" (if that isnt mary sue I dont know what is), your leadership comes in and saves the day by aiding the rebellion and overthrowing garrosh. Oh right, forgot to add, read the pandaren text when you pick a faction, go on, google it.. see how it absolutely reeks of "THE ALLIANCE ARE THE GOOD GUYS.. the horde are... sometimes good? but kind of bad overall." yeah.. mary sue faction harder please.

Dreanor we actually team up and are "all" the good guys for awhile... it was also an unpopular expansion, go figure

Legion? Your leader literally sacrifices himself to be the ultimate good guy hero. Greymane gets his revenge by stopping sylvanas from getting immortality because she was so icky and mean to his son, and yay the good guy got his payback and walked away all sassy like! Your leaders are the ones who lead the charge on the nightmare and save the day by recusing the halfbreed deer man. Your leaders show up and help save the nightwell from guldan so neither side gets to claim the high ground here, but once again alliance are still on the good guy side. From there on the rest of the expansion was purely alliance leaders doing goody goody things and being general good guys constantly saving the day. The ONLY morally questionable thing here was turalion being basically brainwashed by the light version of a void lord, but oh look at that, your former night elf hero saves him. Meanwhile velen being perfect over and over.

And of course, going into this expansion, the goody good alliance were just being good bois and the icky horde attacked. And of course the goody goody anduin drops his sword in the middle of the UC battle and almost cries and summons all the goody healy light to save all the people HOORAY! Then he offers the horde the option to surrender, cause ya know, can't have one of the marys going to the dark side after all! ITS ALL GOOD, ALL THE TIME! God lets not even mention that your former dwarf king is now quite literally the speaker for the freaking planet, how do you even top that kind of mary sue? I dunno, but the writers are going to find a way by god, they've done it before and will do it again

Over and over and over and over again the Alliance are nothing more than a one dimensional representation of "the good guys." The only leader who is shady at times is greymane, and even then he was written to no longer hate the horde, just sylvanas, so even HE becomes another stupidly goody good good guy

Its BOOORRRINNNNGGGG, its awful writing, and its been the entire theme of the alliance this entire games lifetime. Not ONCE have the alliance been portrayed as the aggressors or bad guys or even so much as really morally questionable in the choices they made, and even the maybe ONE time they were (varian attacking thrall and co in the UC), ANOTHER alliance leader comes in to stop them and make them be good again.

THAT is one of the major reasons people dont play alliance. Your entire theme is boring and 1D "good." Meanwhile the horde is generally painted as being mostly morally questionable and generally just looking out for their own best interests and not trying to be freaking planateers all the time.

Its why we got sick of Thrall and were fine seeing him leaving. Its why many of us were annoyed at seeing Garrosh turned into a stereotypical villain because prior to that he was really the personification of what it was to be horde, not doing evil for evil sake, but understanding good and evil are supposed to be based on perspective, and focusing on doing right by his people. Its why we got annoyed at voljin being leader, and why we were happy to see him trashed in favor of sylvanas, and why we're NOW annoyed shes being painted as being another villain we'll have to turn against.

Because people don't like just "being the good guys" all the freaking time. Which is all the alliance do. You can say people don't play for the story in a lot of cases, and sure thats true, but the themes of a faction DO have an impact on players perceptions overall and will trend them one way or the other without them even realizing it. And frankly, no one with a brain likes a mary sue, which is ALL the alliance even is anymore, even if you did have some gray areas before, they're all basically gone now. So yeah, thats GOING to trend a lot of players towards horde without them even realizing it.

I mean, think about something like skyrim for example. How many people do you think played perfectly good upstanding heroes 100% of the time? How many joined the thieves guild, or dark brotherhood, and happily went around stealing or killing for their own gains? I'd wager the vast majority did. Why? because its FUN. Its far more interesting than just being "the good guy" all the damn time.

Theres your answer. Thats a large part of the faction imbalance. You want to reverse the trends? Start making the horde right and win once in awhile, and start letting the alliance eat some losses AND have their leaders turn to morally questionable decisions. Stop sucking off jania's lady wang, stop getting off to manduins purity of goodness, and start letting your leaders be more than one dimensional caricatures of "the good guy" and you'll start seeing people playing alliance more because "hey, the story here is actually becoming more interesting than 'were the good guys'"

The writers painting you into that corner. It has little to do with gameplay balance, or rather, it used to not. Now, people pick horde both for the better characters and because "everyone is horde." The player base drifted horde more and more due to bad writing for alliance, and now everyone is horde so people also go there for gameplay content.

Dont blame us, blame your leaders and the writers who insisted on making them always be "the good guys"

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