When you say "vocal minority"....

General Discussion
10/27/2018 07:33 AMPosted by Onorlus
I don't think people realize what they are saying when they respond in a thread and state that the complaint is just the "vocal minority".

Given that Blizzard assert, and a quick glance at the forums show clearly, that the percentage of all players who post on the forums is a SMALL MINORITY then by definition any comments on here ARE a 'vocal minority'.
10/27/2018 09:13 AMPosted by Snowfox

Well maybe in a thousand years they'll get as tinfoily as the people who call "shill!" at every poster who doesn't agree with them.


I think the "shill" argument is only brought out when someone clearly pretends that BfA is perfect and there's nothing wrong with it. It's possible to admit that BfA has failed without hating Blizzard.
10/27/2018 09:09 AMPosted by Carrigan
10/27/2018 07:46 AMPosted by Giðra
Pro tip bruh... The forums in general are the vocal minority.

Most people don't even look at the forums much less read these threads or post an opinion. The 'Majority' of people posting in any given forum are there because they are unhappy. The vast majority of people who are content with the game are playing and likely are blissfully unaware that these are even problems... because they don't care.


Agree here. Millions of players, maybe a few hundred ever post on the forums. Of those only a fraction have high "post counts". And of those only a fraction complain about whatever in the game is ruining their lives. Everyone else doesn't care.


Reminds me of the political polls.
10/27/2018 09:25 AMPosted by Enekie
I think the "shill" argument is only brought out when someone clearly pretends that BfA is perfect and there's nothing wrong with it.

Yeah.. no. "Shill" gets used at the drop of a hat, over virtually anything.

Just not agreeing with doomsaying will get you called it.

"shill" is ridiculously HILARIOUSLY overused.
10/27/2018 07:33 AMPosted by Onorlus
I don't think people realize what they are saying when they respond in a thread and state that the complaint is just the "vocal minority".

If the complaints on the forums only represent the vocal minority, then the following would all be true:

A *MAJORITY* of the players:

1) Believe Pathfinder is a good thing.
2) Believe RNG is being used properly.
3) Believe class balance is just fine.
4) Believe factions are properly balanced with sharding.
5) Believe that pruning has been good for the game.
6) Believe professions are fine.

etc. etc.

So the next time you read a negative post, or one that is complaining about something in the game....and you AGREE with it..... remember that you are just in the vocal minority and that most players think you're wrong.


Uh. No. That's not what that means. Vocal minority just means that there is only a small number of people who are voicing their concerns. The quiet majority might agree with the minority but we don't know because they aren't talking.
10/27/2018 07:33 AMPosted by Onorlus
I don't think people realize what they are saying when they respond in a thread and state that the complaint is just the "vocal minority".

If the complaints on the forums only represent the vocal minority, then the following would all be true:

A *MAJORITY* of the players:

1) Believe Pathfinder is a good thing.
2) Believe RNG is being used properly.
3) Believe class balance is just fine.
4) Believe factions are properly balanced with sharding.
5) Believe that pruning has been good for the game.
6) Believe professions are fine.

etc. etc.

So the next time you read a negative post, or one that is complaining about something in the game....and you AGREE with it..... remember that you are just in the vocal minority and that most players think you're wrong.


Eh, logically you're incorrect. Two things can be true, the vocal minority CAN be voicing their thoughts which don't represent the views of the player base at large, and the views of the player base can be much more nuanced than the black and white examples you gave, and still in some places overlap with the vocal minority.

I understand the point you're trying to make, but you went about it in a very bad way.
10/27/2018 07:33 AMPosted by Onorlus
If the complaints on the forums only represent the vocal minority, then the following would all be true:

A *MAJORITY* of the players:

1) Believe Pathfinder is a good thing.
2) Believe RNG is being used properly.
3) Believe class balance is just fine.
4) Believe factions are properly balanced with sharding.
5) Believe that pruning has been good for the game.
6) Believe professions are fine.


I highly recommend Logic 101 classes. There are stuff on youtube that might help you as well.
One would think that the Game could defend itself by being GREAT. I love how the SHILLS feel the need to defend a game that is doing so well. A "vocal minority" doesn't need to be attacked and/or discredited BUT there they are, doing their SHILL thing at every complaint, trying to drive naysayers OFF the forums. When do they find the time to actually play the game with all their forum posting? It almost like their JOB is posting pro- blizzard stuff on the forums... and that's why people call you SHILLS!

The End
10/27/2018 09:36 AMPosted by Theodwulf
One would think that the Game could defend itself by being GREAT. I love how the SHILLS feel the need to defend a game that is doing so well. A "vocal minority" doesn't need to be attacked and/or discredited BUT there they are, doing their SHILL thing at every complaint, trying to drive naysayers OFF the forums. When do they find the time to actually play the game with all their forum posting? It almost like their JOB is posting pro- blizzard stuff on the forums... and that's why people call you SHILLS!

The End

10/27/2018 09:13 AMPosted by Snowfox
10/27/2018 09:11 AMPosted by Enekie
Blizzard Defenders are starting to rely on increasingly bizarre conspiracy theories

Well maybe in a thousand years they'll get as tinfoily as the people who call "shill!" at every poster who doesn't agree with them.
The vocal minority argument has always amused me. It's as if the people who post on the forums are the ONLY ones with those opinions and everyone in game has completely different opinions. Here's the thing, if someone comes here and complains about azerite gear and the system being bad, it's safe to assume that at least a few others not on the forums feel the same way. Those folks either don't care about forums, or don't care enough about the game to come here and complain.

The real question is how many that don't come to the forums share that opinion. But just because the majority of players don't come here doesn't mean that some don't share the same opinions that get thrown around here. We just don't know how many that number really is.
I love how all the noobs with 50,000 posts on these forums and like 3k achievement points are telling guys with high achievement points and low post counts that we are the vocal minority. I don't live on the forums, I just post when I am not happy with the game. Tired of noobs ruining WoW because they feel insecure about their lack of pixels and progression. We need to go back to a system that does not reward eliteness for nothingness.
10/27/2018 09:42 AMPosted by Izuul
I love how all the noobs with 50,000 posts on these forums and like 3k achievement points are telling guys with high achievement points and low post counts that we are the vocal minority.

Okay explain that one to me.

What do achievement points have to do with being majority or minority?
10/27/2018 09:43 AMPosted by Snowfox
10/27/2018 09:42 AMPosted by Izuul
I love how all the noobs with 50,000 posts on these forums and like 3k achievement points are telling guys with high achievement points and low post counts that we are the vocal minority.

Okay explain that one to me.

What do achievement points have to do with being majority or minority?


He's repeating an Asmon talking point, which is just idiotic.
10/27/2018 09:45 AMPosted by Kittredge
10/27/2018 09:43 AMPosted by Snowfox
...
Okay explain that one to me.

What do achievement points have to do with being majority or minority?


He's repeating an Asmon talking point, which is just idiotic.

Oh, that explains the post count part too.

Yeah, mirroring of celebs is kinda.. sad.
10/27/2018 09:43 AMPosted by Snowfox
10/27/2018 09:42 AMPosted by Izuul
I love how all the noobs with 50,000 posts on these forums and like 3k achievement points are telling guys with high achievement points and low post counts that we are the vocal minority.

Okay explain that one to me.

What do achievement points have to do with being majority or minority?
People who post all day on the forums (hence 50k posts) and have no achievement points (hence they suck at game or barely play it) are constantly calling out people who post on the forums to complain about the poor state of BFA. Usually the people complaining are relatively low post counts and high achievement points because they come on forums to have a discussion but mostly play the game. What is so hard to understand about that correlation? It's really not that difficult...
10/27/2018 09:49 AMPosted by Izuul
10/27/2018 09:43 AMPosted by Snowfox
...
Okay explain that one to me.

What do achievement points have to do with being majority or minority?
People who post all day on the forums (hence 50k posts) and have no achievement points (hence they suck at game or barely play it) are constantly calling out people who post on the forums to complain about the poor state of BFA. Usually the people complaining are relatively low post counts and high achievement points because they come on forums to have a discussion but mostly play the game. What is so hard to understand about that correlation? It's really not that difficult...

That has nothing to do with who is majority or minority.

You're just ranting about something else.
10/27/2018 09:27 AMPosted by Snowfox
10/27/2018 09:25 AMPosted by Enekie
I think the "shill" argument is only brought out when someone clearly pretends that BfA is perfect and there's nothing wrong with it.

Yeah.. no. "Shill" gets used at the drop of a hat, over virtually anything.

Just not agreeing with doomsaying will get you called it.

"shill" is ridiculously HILARIOUSLY overused.
So is "vocal minority". Truth is we can't say who is the majority and who is the minority on any given issue. At least one can look at an individuals actions and say they are or aren't acting like a shill. There will be certain people on either side of any argument that will use words and phrases more as insults than accurate descriptions. Better off to just disregard those posters and focus on the more reasonable and respectful posts, unless you just want to stir the pot.
10/27/2018 09:52 AMPosted by Hanjha
Better off to just disregard those posters and focus on the more reasonable and respectful posts, unless you just want to stir the pot.

To a point.. but you're also describing the raw noise and problems with communication that those kind of posters bring here.

It's worth speaking out against that.
I think it's more that people are trying to convey that none of us speak for the whole. We speak for ourselves. However we constantly see people coming here unhappy and trying to say that everyone shares their point of view.

Sure there are issues that people are unhappy with. And I don't think those things should be dismissed. But we should probably spend more time saying "I'm unhappy with this and here's why." Instead of insisting that the whole world is following our lead.

So yes, there's a small fraction of players who post here. An even smaller fraction that posts here regularly. And frequently people come here because they're frustrated and wish to voice that. We're not necessarily a good thermometer on any particular issue for the game as a whole.

But we sure as heck are a great thermometer for how we're feeling at the moment.
10/27/2018 07:33 AMPosted by Onorlus
So the next time you read a negative post, or one that is complaining about something in the game....and you AGREE with it..... remember that you are just in the vocal minority and that most players think you're wrong.

I'd like to see where this Majority number you've come with is actual fact, backed up with hard data.

While GD is 100% a minority-- Blizzard doesn't take feedback just from GD. They take feedback via E-mail, Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, and other sources.

They also have hard data like how many accounts are active, what accounts are playing what content.

So I'll propose a few questions:

1- If the "majority" of the players are fine with the game as is, why has Blizzard been hot fixing issues? Example: Azuruite Gear dropping in Mythic+

2- If the "majority" of the players are fine with the game as is, Why is Blizzard balls to the wall with upcoming changes set to appear with 8.1?

These suggest the majority of the game's population aren't happy with the game and the direction it's taking.

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