Tips & Tricks for H G'huun

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
Serial PUG leader here. Call me a masochist w/e.

Been stuck 7/8H G'huun for a while.

Here's how it usually goes for me:

12-20 minutes getting orb runners and comp ready. [Targeting 365+ players with at least 7/8H progression or better ... 4 solos 2 duos w/ 2 locks usually]

2-4 pulls making sure orb runners are good. [Most solo runners esp. DH seem to always get stuck first few times]

5-30 pulls getting anywhere between 10 - 35 % ... about 1.5 hours of maybe a 4 hour session of this time is spent refilling and refilling between failed pulls.

Orbs get flawless at some point, but then the transition from P2 to P3 is usually where it's at. Following usual strats like Tanks + 6th runner in first blood feast, and everyone else in 2nd feast in time for 6th dunk/lust.

Good groups may get him to >25% lust phase, but still all seem to die to p3 mechanics.

What do? Any tips and tricks other raid leaders have?
If you want a better experience raiding/killing end game content my first suggestion to you would be to join a decent raiding guild. Cant fix stupid pugs who leave and cause issues.
If you have the time to execute that level of coordination in a PUG, you have the time to join a organized raiding group in a guild. The time you spend having to explain mechanics, reexplain mechanics, and figure out who is doing what every night can all be saved by being in a consistent raiding group that knows its assignments, knows the mechanics, and can communicate with each other if anything goes wrong.
Try telling the people in this forum that Ghuun is a poorly designed boss with too much coordination required and very few fun moments.

They all either raid 12 hour weeks or get booted from LFR and come here to whine.

Not a great representation of the overall raiding community.
The boss is fine. Honestly I think the issue you are running into is spending most of your time trying to get to P3 and then failing at it. It is critical for people to be able to practice the mechanics and timings of phase 3 if you want to get him down. Honestly P3 is fairly simple but people need to see it and get used to it first. Knowing how often they will get the spores or have to turn around for Gaze is critical to progressing on this boss. Probably the most critical part of it would be handling the rest of the mechanics while still staying spread out for each wave of corruption so you aren't getting multiple stacks of the debuff. It takes practice. From the sound of it you spend all night getting to phase 3 and very little time is left over to actually get used to those mechanics. Not to mention that you probably lose multiple people each wipe so their replacements have to learn it all over again. Its an endless cycle.

Do yourself a favor, find a guild or if you like to lead then you can always start one yourself.
10/30/2018 05:15 AMPosted by Ticklebag
Try telling the people in this forum that Ghuun is a poorly designed boss with too much coordination required and very few fun moments.

They all either raid 12 hour weeks or get booted from LFR and come here to whine.

Not a great representation of the overall raiding community.


Oh no. An end tier boss requiring coordination and following mechanics. We have never seen that before. Not once.
10/30/2018 12:47 AMPosted by Fzd


Good groups may get him to >25% lust phase, but still all seem to die to p3 mechanics.

What do? Any tips and tricks other raid leaders have?


Once you've got the orbs sorted out, and with the strat you have, you really only have to have two more things for people to focus on.

1) Spacing - the damage from Putrid is extreme if players aren't spaced properly for each wave. So - if you look at your logs and are seeing people with more than 4 stacks going into P3 you need to keep an eye on where they are standing during the waves. The other damage, from orbs etc isn't real bad. If people aren't clearing their stacks on the second feast due to the orb, they should. There's plenty of time.

2) Phase 3, as said above, is actually pretty simple. During Collapse, there's really nothing to worry about other than getting away from it. Last Collapse is always in the middle. For the rest of the phase, just remind the group that it's basically a pattern: Stack in the clean spots, let the first mushrooms explode, move to where they were AND SPREAD (since the wave will come right after this movement). Call out the gaze. Repeat. It's actually the easiest phase to get figured out, especially in a PuG where you have to waste a ton of time sorting the orb runners.

Lastly, I'd just suggest this is a fight where you can get away with an extra healer and it will cover a lot of sloppiness. That might be useful for a PuG.
10/30/2018 06:24 PMPosted by Necai
Oh no. An end tier boss requiring coordination and following mechanics. We have never seen that before. Not once.


You have to admit, heroic G'huun is noticeably more difficult than most heroic end bosses. And this is a boss in the first tier of the expansion, which makes it even more unusual. There is no real precedent for a first tier end boss being this difficult.

Legion: Xavius
WoD: Imperator Mar'gok
MoP: Will of the Emperor
Cata: Nefarian/Al'akir/Cho'gall
WotLK: Kel'Thuzad
BC: Lady Vashj
Vanilla: Ragnaros

Those are all the first tier end bosses of every expansion and I'd argue that the only one that was harder than G'huun is Ragnaros, and even then only because people were noobs back then (I know I sure was) and the raid needed enough fire resist gear to even attempt it.
10/30/2018 05:15 AMPosted by Ticklebag
Try telling the people in this forum that Ghuun is a poorly designed boss with too much coordination required and very few fun moments.

They all either raid 12 hour weeks or get booted from LFR and come here to whine.

Not a great representation of the overall raiding community.

I raid six hours a week: 2 nights, 3 hours at a time. I downed Heroic G'huun with my guild on October 4, 2018. I also practice law and have a family.

If you think that's elitist, I don't know what to tell you. Just because you're casual does not mean you have to be bad.
10/30/2018 05:15 AMPosted by Ticklebag
Try telling the people in this forum that Ghuun is a poorly designed boss with too much coordination required and very few fun moments.

They all either raid 12 hour weeks or get booted from LFR and come here to whine.

Not a great representation of the overall raiding community.
Calling the whole forum elitists AND noobs. Interesting.
10/30/2018 10:55 PMPosted by Slashstuck

Lastly, I'd just suggest this is a fight where you can get away with an extra healer and it will cover a lot of sloppiness. That might be useful for a PuG.


That was my first thought as well. If you're consistently getting to phase 3 with 4 solo runners, (IE it goes fast) then your healers should have plenty of mana. Phase 3 wipes without OBVIOUS causes, (you see people getting tossed around constantly by being stacked when the wave comes out) would come down to poor or undermanned heals.
Tank G'Huun in center off room in phase 3. You only need to rotate around him to dodge the Pepperonis. His tail is a melee death trap as it can hide a Pepperoni. He goes immune during roof collaspe, get far away. Only use solo orb runners on boss in Heroic or Normal. Don't even attempt it without solo orb runners because your wasting your time. Only exception is if you want to use a duel group in one of the first three orbs. Never use a demon hunter to run orbs on 4,5,6 as they will not have their DPS cooldown available for burn phase. Use them on 1,2,3.

While I have seen groups do it with one healer per 5 players, your far better off doing it with one more healer then that. Before you start, ask all your Orb runners to say which orb they are running. If they don't respond immediantly, you know they don't understand and you just saved yourself a wipe.

Have fun, very few bosses are as fun as phase 3 G'Huun on Heroic.
10/31/2018 04:07 AMPosted by Fancypantsz
Legion: Xavius
WoD: Imperator Mar'gok
MoP: Will of the Emperor
Cata: Nefarian/Al'akir/Cho'gall
WotLK: Kel'Thuzad
BC: Lady Vashj
Vanilla: Ragnaros

Those are all the first tier end bosses of every expansion and I'd argue that the only one that was harder than G'huun is Ragnaros, and even then only because people were noobs back then (I know I sure was) and the raid needed enough fire resist gear to even attempt it.


For BC Magtheridon is probably closer than Lady Vashj to 'first' end boss. And he was...something else. lol. Definitely easier than Vashj, but still a gimmicky and punishing fight if you were trying to pug it.

Other than the early Cata bosses who were unrelentingly difficult in my experience, I would say all of those bosses are similar in terms of their complexity, especially relative to their expansions. I mean nobody is going to call Ragnaros a complex fight nowadays, you know?

But the biggest issue with G'huun is the class stacking. No other "entry level" end boss has required class stacking, ever, under any circumstances. And honestly neither does G'hunn, but that's the community perception at this point, and the community perception is gospel.
10/31/2018 06:49 PMPosted by Mur
But the biggest issue with G'huun is the class stacking. No other "entry level" end boss has required class stacking, ever, under any circumstances. And honestly neither does G'hunn, but that's the community perception at this point, and the community perception is gospel.


Right. You don't "need" two warlocks (or even one warlock). You don't "need" a whole bunch of solo orb runners either (when it was progression for my guild, we had two solo runners and 4 groups of 2). But in a pug setting coordination is always a huge issue and having those certain classes makes the coordination requirement much easier, which is why you see so much class stacking in G'huun pugs.

Vashj would've been a nightmare to pug back in BC, but the big difference between BC and now is that the pug scene was much more limited back in the day because all of the raid content back then was designed around guild groups. Nowadays only mythic is designed around guild groups and everything below that is designed to be puggable. In that sense, G'huun is a serious outlier in terms of difficulty.
10/31/2018 07:21 PMPosted by Fancypantsz
10/31/2018 06:49 PMPosted by Mur
But the biggest issue with G'huun is the class stacking. No other "entry level" end boss has required class stacking, ever, under any circumstances. And honestly neither does G'hunn, but that's the community perception at this point, and the community perception is gospel.


Right. You don't "need" two warlocks (or even one warlock). You don't "need" a whole bunch of solo orb runners either (when it was progression for my guild, we had two solo runners and 4 groups of 2). But in a pug setting coordination is always a huge issue and having those certain classes makes the coordination requirement much easier, which is why you see so much class stacking in G'huun pugs.

Vashj would've been a nightmare to pug back in BC, but the big difference between BC and now is that the pug scene was much more limited back in the day because all of the raid content back then was designed around guild groups. Nowadays only mythic is designed around guild groups and everything below that is designed to be puggable. In that sense, G'huun is a serious outlier in terms of difficulty.

Just because a fight is puggable does not mean it was designed to be puggable. Heroic fights are designed to be a cut below Mythic in terms of difficulty; they aren't designed to be forgiving to uncoordinated groups. Heroic G'huun is no more difficult than Heroic Guldan, Heroic KJ, Heroic Archimonde, or Heroic Blackhand was, and those fights were definitely not friendly to uncoordinated pugs.

EDIT: I should add Heroic Helya to the list.
11/01/2018 05:44 AMPosted by Swillton
Heroic G'huun is no more difficult than Heroic Guldan, Heroic KJ, Heroic Archimonde, or Heroic Blackhand


Cool, but that's been covered.

10/31/2018 06:49 PMPosted by Mur
the biggest issue with G'huun is the class stacking


And I know you have a god complex because your guild has heroic Uldir on farm status, but it is absolutely expected to be completed in pugs. Good luck when the actual raid tiers start dropping.
If every difficulty thats not mythic is supposed to be puggable, just axe normal and heroic, make the only 2 difficulties LFR or mythic, one clearly designed for pug groups, and one designed for coordinated players.
11/02/2018 12:27 PMPosted by Oakttg
If every difficulty thats not mythic is supposed to be puggable, just axe normal and heroic, make the only 2 difficulties LFR or mythic, one clearly designed for pug groups, and one designed for coordinated players.


Why in the world would anyone ask for less choice? If you don't like LFR then don't run it. If you are too superior for normal then just start on Heroic. If you are good enough to do Mythic and have a guild for it then you should definitely try it. Less choice is never a good thing. All difficulty levels are working as intended.
11/01/2018 05:07 PMPosted by Mur
11/01/2018 05:44 AMPosted by Swillton
Heroic G'huun is no more difficult than Heroic Guldan, Heroic KJ, Heroic Archimonde, or Heroic Blackhand


Cool, but that's been covered.

10/31/2018 06:49 PMPosted by Mur
the biggest issue with G'huun is the class stacking


And I know you have a god complex because your guild has heroic Uldir on farm status, but it is absolutely expected to be completed in pugs. Good luck when the actual raid tiers start dropping.

Expected by whom, the players or the developers? I'm sure the players have all kinds of expectations, whether they are rational or not. But unless you can provide some evidence of the developer's intent, you simply saying that Heroic is expected to be puggable isn't very convincing.

And when do we expect the pugging to be successful: week 1 or week 12? I'm sure that even Mythic is puggable if given enough time. But to complain that Heroic G'huun is too hard for pugs in, say, week 4 is pretty silly.
11/03/2018 05:21 AMPosted by Swillton
But unless you can provide some evidence of the developer's intent, you simply saying that Heroic is expected to be puggable isn't very convincing.


All it takes is having been part of this community for a long time. I don't know what else to tell you. Every one of your posts represents your own narrow, inexperienced perspective, and I don't really feel like breaking down the history of WoW raiding to you just because you're out of the loop.

11/03/2018 05:21 AMPosted by Swillton
I'm sure that even Mythic is puggable if given enough time.


People were pugging mythic bosses before you finished heroic. So...

11/03/2018 05:21 AMPosted by Swillton
to complain that Heroic G'huun is too hard for pugs in, say, week 4 is pretty silly


Oops, you did that thing again where you missed the point. Let me go and restate it again.

10/31/2018 06:49 PMPosted by Mur
the biggest issue with G'huun is the class stacking

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum