Thoughts on Eye Beam changes on PTR?

Demon Hunter
10/31/2018 03:21 PMPosted by Xaedys
10/31/2018 03:06 PMPosted by Therez
Might have to give the monk a razz


Have fun on your next FotM. Though it's worth noting, Fists of Fury got the same treatment as Eye Beam.


Ive only levelled one class to 120 - thats DH. But thanks for your input

We are currently so dependent on EB for all of our damage (ST & AOE) that a baseline reduction doesnt make much sense. I get they are trying to target and balance Havoc's M+ viability.

My point is they are nerfing our AOE (which im alright with) but their method makes no sense, as it reduces our ST damage (already lacking) and further hurts our PVP burst. Which I disagree with.
10/31/2018 03:31 PMPosted by Therez
We are currently so dependent on EB for all of our damage (ST & AOE)


Eye Beam makes up ~8% of our single-target damage. The majority of our damage (~57%) comes from Blade Dance and Chaos Strike (including Annihilation, Death Sweep, and Trail). A 15% nerf to Eye Beam is a ~1.25% overall nerf to DPS. Noticeable, but hardly spec-killing.
10/31/2018 02:30 PMPosted by Xaedys
10/31/2018 11:53 AMPosted by Sechi
The only caveat there is that I do believe if a class only has 1 DPS spec that the spec should probably be dealt with earlier in the tuning/hotfix pecking order so that class doesn't feel useless in the meantime (assuming the spec is underperforming or has some other issue).


I think that was the point of Kady's statement, tbh. If a class has multiple DPS specs, so long as one of them is viable, that class and therefore that character can be used. Respecing is a LOT easier than rerolling and regearing a new character. Neither is desirable, a player should be able to play the spec they choose and feel like they are usefully contributing to the group. But if specs aren't perfectly balanced, it's better for a spec on a class with other viable DPS spec options to be undertuned than the only DPS spec that a class has be undertuned.
Exactly. If DH DPS is severely undertuned, there is no other viable spec to switch to. Every damage class has at least one other DPS spec to swap to, some have multiple options. So what would a DH do if they were really undertuned? I am not saying they need to be in the top but they should be competitive and able to make solid contributions.
More trying to get the point across that if you want to impact our AOE damage and bring it in line with other classes, reducing EB damage by 15% does tune down our AOE, however impacts our burst for ST/PVP situations.

10/31/2018 03:06 PMPosted by Therez
I feel a much more effective change would be to reduce the amount of damage secondary targets take by 15%.


Would this not be a more appropriate change?
10/31/2018 06:56 PMPosted by Therez
More trying to get the point across that if you want to impact our AOE damage and bring it in line with other classes, reducing EB damage by 15% does tune down our AOE, however impacts our burst for ST/PVP situations.

10/31/2018 03:06 PMPosted by Therez
I feel a much more effective change would be to reduce the amount of damage secondary targets take by 15%.


Would this not be a more appropriate change?


I think it would be, we're not topping ST meters by any means, i felt like we were in a really good place as far as PVE goes. I cant speak on PVP as i dont participate in it. I feel bad for the PvPers. I feel bad for those who only do PvE, im not topping meters in raid currently.

Feels like they just dont want people pushing keys as high as they currently are and they see havoc in most groups so they just nerf it.
10/31/2018 07:05 PMPosted by Cástïél

Feels like they just dont want people pushing keys as high as they currently are and they see havoc in most groups so they just nerf it.


Id agree this is in response to high M+ keys being completed. Id argue BM hunters/!@# rogues are just as common in the really high keys being pushed (on account of certain groups being good at M+ keys) and you dont see AOE changes to these classes in the PTR.

weird af
10/31/2018 04:05 PMPosted by Xaedys
10/31/2018 03:31 PMPosted by Therez
We are currently so dependent on EB for all of our damage (ST & AOE)


Eye Beam makes up ~8% of our single-target damage. The majority of our damage (~57%) comes from Blade Dance and Chaos Strike (including Annihilation, Death Sweep, and Trail). A 15% nerf to Eye Beam is a ~1.25% overall nerf to DPS. Noticeable, but hardly spec-killing.


Thank you for giving me meaningful information. I’m ok with this change.
Eye Beam (Havoc) Blasts all enemies in front of you, dealing guaranteed critical strikes for a total of [ 225% [ 191.2% of Attack Power ] Chaos damage over 2 sec.
Eye Beam (Vengeance) Blasts all enemies in front of you, dealing guaranteed critical strikes for a total of [ 150% [ 127.5% of Attack Power ] Chaos damage over 2 sec.

This MMO-C data mine tho.
10/31/2018 07:51 PMPosted by Typh
Eye Beam (Havoc) Blasts all enemies in front of you, dealing guaranteed critical strikes for a total of [ 225% [ 191.2% of Attack Power ] Chaos damage over 2 sec.
Eye Beam (Vengeance) Blasts all enemies in front of you, dealing guaranteed critical strikes for a total of [ 150% [ 127.5% of Attack Power ] Chaos damage over 2 sec.

This MMO-C data mine tho.


I'm assuming you're referring to the Vengeance part there. That's just due to how Eye Beam, and really most DH spells, are coded. Nearly all of the Havoc abilities are coded as "base" abilities, with Vengeance then replacing them in-place, akin to how Fracture replaces Shear. For example, Blade Dance is replaced by Sigil of Flame. Fel Rush is replaced by Infernal Strike. Eye Beam is replaced by Immolation Aura. You can test these yourself by swapping to Vengeance and then making a macro using the red ? icon (that auto-selects the icon based on the ability that will be cast), and then putting in it /cast Blade Dance or whichever ability. The icon will change to the Vengeance ability that replaced it.

Basically, Blizzard's engineers got lazy and decided to use their skill replacement tech instead of making a unique set of spells for each spec. The knock-on effect is that Vengeance actually has an entry for Eye Beam, because it has to "have" that spell for it to be replaced by Immolation Aura. The change to the coefficient on the spell is meaningless for Vengeance, though, and simply an echo of the Havoc change (because they are the same spell ID in the database). Vengeance is not getting Eye Beam.
What do i think ?
The Dev team needs the Alcoholics anonymous version of hamfisted kneejerk nerfing
Azerite trait that resets eye-beam and blade-dance when I meta is more of a buff that I wont notice
10/31/2018 07:16 AMPosted by Gaysteroider
7.5 down to 6.375 is a 15% nerf, so its not insignificant. I'm guessing we'll be feeling this one.


May not be as bad, beam scales with mastery now. I don't like why it's being done though. If they really think hitting Arms/Fmage/Havoc is going to keep people from running high keys while leaving rogues alone and lock gate mechanics unchanged they've got another thing coming.

We need more options besides either Demonic or Momentum builds. I'd love to see a ST build based on Chaos Strike using Thirsting Blades as a focal point. Not married to that, but we do need more than two build options.
11/01/2018 03:27 AMPosted by Razeal
May not be as bad, beam scales with mastery now.

Did I miss something where beam previously didn't scale with mastery, given that it has always been chaos damage?
DHs are OP, 80k dps in trash pulls with 1 button was too much, not sure you didnt see this coming or why it took this long.
11/01/2018 05:43 AMPosted by Ojoverde
DHs are OP, 80k dps in trash pulls with 1 button was too much, not sure you didnt see this coming or why it took this long.


It was never 1 button for that much DPS. And 80k required a VERY large pack to hit, both Eye Beam and Fel Barrage, usually lust, and luck with Fel Barrage crits and trinket procs.

And this is all really rich coming from a class that can land a 150-200k Deathbolt crit during the opener.
11/01/2018 05:43 AMPosted by Ojoverde
DHs are OP, 80k dps in trash pulls with 1 button was too much, not sure you didnt see this coming or why it took this long.


Actually, the most pathetic things I see on the forum are people who seem to do nothing but post in the forums of every spec that gets nerfed in order to gloat.
I am amaze on how well DHs are taking the nerf next patch compared to frost mages, not many complains in the forums.
11/01/2018 04:06 AMPosted by Typh
Did I miss something where beam previously didn't scale with mastery, given that it has always been chaos damage?


Counted as Chromatic damage all through legion, think it was that way for most of Beta as well.
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769548468#post-4

Well, seems like Eye Beam is escaping the nerf for the time being.

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