Hapala double Sac gone in PTR

Arenas
<span class="truncated">...</span> I'd be fine with double sac if it costed you 100% sac. the combo of those both though feels pretty terrible to go against, though I know your class is balanced around that...

Or if sac couldnt be used while bopped / bubbled, and vice versa... or just some drawback mechanic.
drawback, like getting rotted by damage? literally saying "hey swap me"? its a cooldown, they arent supposed to screw us over.
Cooldowns shouldn't be making someone fully immune to damage no matter what the % either. Someone gets to 1 hp, and sac saves them... that, imo, is not good for the game, especially without it causing forbearance or something along that nature.

As for "hey swap me" it's a good thing you can pop another full immune to soak that damage, aye? There needs to be drawbacks on abilities of that strength. I'm not saying they shouldn't be compensated in other areas to make up for the drawbacks, but it's a cancer mechanic. You are literally able to make your entire team immune to damage, that doesn't feel right.

11/06/2018 07:35 PMPosted by Veliina
its not even just that, its that this whole rental trait/gear things feels HORRID. At least artifacts we had for an entire expansion.

Im highly disappointed were into a new expansion and they are stilllllll taking things. like cmon now....

like 8.1 back to farmin traits everyone!
I despise the trait system and the gear system, i 100% agree with you on that, especially since you spend the expac farming one piece type, just to have that piece type get nerfed to unvability... and spend the entire expac deciding whether you want high ilvl, or the correct traits, cause you aren't getting both. It's actually digusting.
11/06/2018 08:05 PMPosted by Fox
... drawback, like getting rotted by damage? literally saying "hey swap me"? its a cooldown, they arent supposed to screw us over.
Cooldowns shouldn't be making someone fully immune to damage no matter what the % either. Someone gets to 1 hp, and sac saves them... that, imo, is not good for the game, especially without it causing forbearance or something along that nature.

As for "hey swap me" it's a good thing you can pop another full immune to soak that damage, aye? There needs to be drawbacks on abilities of that strength. I'm not saying they shouldn't be compensated in other areas to make up for the drawbacks, but it's a cancer mechanic. You are literally able to make your entire team immune to damage, that doesn't feel right.

11/06/2018 07:35 PMPosted by Veliina
its not even just that, its that this whole rental trait/gear things feels HORRID. At least artifacts we had for an entire expansion.

Im highly disappointed were into a new expansion and they are stilllllll taking things. like cmon now....

like 8.1 back to farmin traits everyone!
I despise the trait system and the gear system, i 100% agree with you on that, especially since you spend the expac farming one piece type, just to have that piece type get nerfed to unvability... and spend the entire expac deciding whether you want high ilvl, or the correct traits, cause you aren't getting both. It's actually digusting.
there is literally one class that can catch you and you teleport through walls. if you guys could wall inside stun you would easily be n2 behind rsham.
11/06/2018 08:10 PMPosted by Theoldgods
there is literally one class that can catch you and you teleport through walls. if you guys could wall inside stun you would easily be n2 behind rsham.
0.o what did that have to do with anything I said in the previous post?

Mistweavers are actually less mobile than they've ever been in any iteration (with possible exception to mop, as I didn't play it, but doubtful). WoD we had 3x chi torpedo + port. Legion we were able to cast while moving, had mistwalk at one point with 2x charges, had double chi torpedo with a speed boost, and had port with baseline 25 second cooldown.

This expansion we have 2 chi torpedos and port on a 45 second cooldown (specced 40 seconds, but that's going to change to 20 seconds with 8.1) but cannot cast while moving.

Aside from being super stun susceptible, we're also CC susceptible as well. Not asking to be immortal while stunned, but jesus dying to 1 person from a full stun is lame, especially when our one and only major cooldown can't be popped during stuns. I'd take cocoon keeping a 2 min cd and be usable while stunned than it having a 1 min or less cd like it's going to be in 8.1.
11/06/2018 07:10 PMPosted by Vãrick
So if hpal, rsham, disc got nerfed. MW buffed? rdruid ok if asian, and holy priest are stepping forward.

Is that a dampening meta? Or what kind of comps do you guys expect to see?
RDruid is actually eating a huge nerf. Nourish, their best honor talent, is becoming a cast separate from regrowth and takes 0.5 seconds longer to cast (this also means gigantic tree of life nerf).

Interested to see how the hpal changes play out since I'll be playing a lot of it with zandalari coming out.
11/06/2018 07:35 PMPosted by Veliina
11/06/2018 07:23 PMPosted by Fox
I'd be fine with double sac if it costed you 100% sac. the combo of those both though feels pretty terrible to go against, though I know your class is balanced around that...

Or if sac couldnt be used while bopped / bubbled, and vice versa... or just some drawback mechanic.


its not even just that, its that this whole rental trait/gear things feels HORRID. At least artifacts we had for an entire expansion.

Im highly disappointed were into a new expansion and they are stilllllll taking things. like cmon now....

like 8.1 back to farmin traits everyone!

It’s hardly taking
You still have sac, you just don’t have two charges. It’s fixing a change that shouldn’t have come live in legion
11/06/2018 07:14 PMPosted by Fox
11/06/2018 07:10 PMPosted by Vãrick
So if hpal, rsham, disc got nerfed. MW buffed? rdruid ok if asian, and holy priest are stepping forward.

Is that a dampening meta? Or what kind of comps do you guys expect to see?
I'm honestly expecting MWs to kinda be the master of the world for healers until they inevitably get beaten down with the nerf bat.
yeah well be strong af compared to all other healers but still die in a single stun
11/06/2018 11:04 PMPosted by Surgingfist
11/06/2018 07:14 PMPosted by Fox
... I'm honestly expecting MWs to kinda be the master of the world for healers until they inevitably get beaten down with the nerf bat.
yeah well be strong af compared to all other healers but still die in a single stun

I need to roll a MW so I only have one thing to worry about
This change needed to happen for the overall game, but they really, really, need to add a talent in for paladins (all specs) to counter mages.

The amount of control a mage has over a paladin is outrageously broken, and I don't believe any other class is so hard countered.

I get the whole "classes need weaknesses and strengths" but with the abundance of dispels, there is hardly any strength left in BoP and Freedom vs melee comps.

I'm not saying paladins are bad.
I'm not saying this change didn't need to happen.


But, paladins can't be the only healer without a way to attempt to break CC... Shifting forms, Temor totem, wind shear, grounding, death, etc

I think Ultimate Sacrifice was more the culprit than having double sac, tbh.
Sooo what to do now? watch your teammate flop? Because your mastery is worthless?

Eat more polymorphs? Feelsgoodman
double sac being gone is a good change imo, as a longtime hpala player im looking forward to having possibly higher throughput with divine favor + lights grace again
11/06/2018 11:38 PMPosted by Ryutiz
double sac being gone is a good change imo, as a longtime hpala player im looking forward to having possibly higher throughput with divine favor + lights grace again


Is divine favor immune to spell steal in 8.1? Cause it just looks like it’s getting spell stolen every 25 seconds now instead of 45
11/06/2018 11:38 PMPosted by Ryutiz
double sac being gone is a good change imo, as a longtime hpala player im looking forward to having possibly higher throughput with divine favor + lights grace again


only prob is they havent given us higher through put yet.
11/06/2018 11:42 PMPosted by Aesthetic
11/06/2018 11:38 PMPosted by Ryutiz
double sac being gone is a good change imo, as a longtime hpala player im looking forward to having possibly higher throughput with divine favor + lights grace again


Is divine favor immune to spell steal in 8.1? Cause it just looks like it’s getting spell stolen every 25 seconds now instead of 45


sounds like a personal problem.
That's a shame I value both of my Sacs. To lose a Sac is like losing a friend.
Somehow you guys think Hpal deserved this change. Straight to the bottom we will go. Hpal was already hard to play and double sac was a must take. Without compensation for the change why play this spec?
I’m really hoping this change does not stay.

I’ll start by saying I would prefer 100% sac be removed then losing 2 stacks.

All healers have tools to avoid cc.

Hpal’s tool has always been sac.

Predicting cc with sac is one of the few ways good hpals can differentiate themselves.

Removing the second charge truly guts this class.
A change that would be cool would be to give us a pvp talent that gives sac a 30 second cd but makes it only last 3 seconds.

This rewards good play by allowing well timed sacs to absorb a lot of damage and be used to stop cc.

But also only being 3 seconds doesn’t save a player for long.
11/07/2018 07:15 AMPosted by Vindi
A change that would be cool would be to give us a pvp talent that gives sac a 30 second cd but makes it only last 3 seconds.

This rewards good play by allowing well timed sacs to absorb a lot of damage and be used to stop cc.

But also only being 3 seconds doesn’t save a player for long.


Yeah, the current change feels like a minimal effort, it's Friday let's just get this done, type of change. Hopefully it doesn't stick. Although, we'll still have 2 BoP's, and a more frequent big uninterruptible heal, so maybe taking divine favor over ultimate sacrifice will be better.

"A change that would be cool would be to give us a pvp talent that gives sac a 30 second cd but makes it only last X seconds." This would actually be a lot of fun.
Lmao
11/07/2018 07:36 AMPosted by Wubz
11/07/2018 07:15 AMPosted by Vindi
A change that would be cool would be to give us a pvp talent that gives sac a 30 second cd but makes it only last 3 seconds.

This rewards good play by allowing well timed sacs to absorb a lot of damage and be used to stop cc.

But also only being 3 seconds doesn’t save a player for long.


Yeah, the current change feels like a minimal effort, it's Friday let's just get this done, type of change. Hopefully it doesn't stick.


I mean I know I am biased but sac in its current form doesn’t feel broken to me.

100% damage transfer is extremely punishable.

I didnt play mop or cata but every other expac I’ve played we have had access to 2 sacs this is a core mechanic of this class.

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