Why do players want censorship and bans for other players?

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11/07/2018 12:24 PMPosted by Valên
I fully understand first amendment and that it only applies to government so I am not arguing on those grounds.

I also understand its Blizzards website and they can do what they want. I dont agree that corporations should be the end all be all replacement for churchs in the 20th century.

I dont spew nasty things out. I dont feel the need to personally insult other players. I do however see a lot of insults go out and nothing gets done because the opinion is popular.

It just struck me as odd when reading another's post someone jumped into only say you are reported and I hope you get permabanned.

My question is why would PLAYERS go out of their way to attack other players because of something that was said?

I am old. When I was growing up, if someone said something to you that got to you, you lost. You didnt run and tattle to a teacher, you developed your chops to argue and win. Your argument was based on its own merit, not getting some supposed authority to come in an fight for you.

I guess I am just too old to understand these new ways. I dont want people I disagree with banned. I dont want any censorship . If I cant prove my point and win, I lost the argument.

Like I said in the original post, everytime there has been a kind of censorship in the past, it always looks poorly 10 years down the road.
I am someone who reports and about 20-25% of the time, I tell the person I reported them. To me, this is my wow home. I want the yard work done and the house smelling pretty inside so it is a pleasure to be here. I didn't make the rules. Some of them I don't even follow except for when I am in the forums or playing the game but the forums are not a garbage can for throwing out all the moldy food from the refrigerator. The other users of the forum are not whipping posts for a person to lash out at.

Blizzard has given me an opportunity to participate in keeping our home pleasant. I try to do it with my posts (although the longer I am here the worse I get at it) and I do it through reporting gross violations of the code of conduct.
11/07/2018 12:00 PMPosted by Valên
I just dont get it.
Blizzard are the ones that ultimately make any decisions. Players are not moderating these boards.

But I will report people when they violate forum rules generally for trolling. Personally people who just come in and deliberately act obnoxious and insult others to flame bait degrade these forums, and I don't like to see that happen since this is a place I enjoy coming to.

I don't need them banned, sometimes a warning not to violate the rules is all that's needed to curb the bad behavior. And Blizzard can do whatever they want with them in terms of penalties, moderation is all up to them. But I will report for that to clue Blizzard's moderators in to it.

And I will do that to people who both disagree and agree with me in terms of whatever is being discussed, to be fair. I would not want to be seen as trying to abuse the system to try and shut up opposition view points, as that's not the point of Blizzard's system.

I just want these forums not to turn into a complete pile of garbage, which is what would happen if there was no moderation to keep people's worst tendencies at bay because they are posting anonymously online.
11/07/2018 12:52 PMPosted by Jatari
90% of the ones wanting it are under 18 guaranteed and have absolutely no real world appreciation of what freedom of speech and expression are for or about.
Their own weak arguments are exposed by the dumbest of 5 year olds so just like the race card is used to shut down discussion, so is any form of censorship beyond trying to control out right profanity.

the other 10% are 35 year old basement dwelling neckbeards who never matured beyond the mental capacity of the aforementioned teens above.
One of my biggest frustrations in the forums is having people say things like this. If I wanted to debate this, where would I even start? There is absolutely no evidence for this opinion so I have nothing to refute. Its full of hatefulness so the debate would devolve into this person insulting me because of her own weak argument. There is nothing I can do with this post.
11/07/2018 12:00 PMPosted by Valên
This is NOT a troll post. I honestly dont understand the people who go into a post, report it and hope the poster gets a ban. It just makes no sense to me.

I am 100% against ANY form of censorship. Everytime it has been tried, it never stands the test of time. From churches trying to ban books, to the Washington wives trying to ban music (seriously - look at the artists on the filthy 15 and the songs that were tried to ban back in the day) to censoring anyone who disagrees with you today.

Are the censors just trolls? Do they realize censorship leads is fasicsm and are ok with that?

I just dont get it.

You are mixing together attempts to get the government to impose country-wide bans, vs. the right of voluntary associations to have their own membership standards.

You are right that the former is not a good idea and in fact is illegal under the US constitution.

You are missing that the latter is extremely common. Many friendships, clubs, businesses, restaurants, religious gathering places, and yes online communities have social behavior expectations, implicit or explicit, that when violated can result in actions taken towards the misbehavior.

WoW is a private, voluntary activity. You have the absolute right to choose not to participate if you don't like its standards. You do not have any right to insist that it not have standards.
11/07/2018 12:00 PMPosted by Valên
Are the censors just trolls? Do they realize censorship leads is fasicsm and are ok with that?


This is not a public forum. This is not a "free speech" zone.

Therefore, OP, none of your comments make no sense.

"Fascism" happens when the GOVERNMENT censors freedom of speech. None of that is happening here.
I have no idea why are you are posting this OP, but is a valid point, people have no respect for different opinions anymore. I see lifes destroyed because someone said something inappropriate in social media, acting like saying something offensive is a terrible crime. Is a disease in internet the actitud of " if I don't like it, nobody should talk about it". It's almost ridiculous when this actitud come from PC people. They became exactly with they hate the most, intolerant. I know is not illegal the censure by private, but we are talking about good manners and respect between human beings, not only including those who think different but specially with them
11/07/2018 12:00 PMPosted by Valên
This is NOT a troll post.

Do they realize censorship leads is fasicsm and are ok with that?

Troll or ignorant. This is /facepalm either way.
I agree with both sides of this to an extent. I get what you are saying: sometimes people are overzealous when it comes to their offense taking and their reporting of others. Sometimes it is hard to understand why others would maliciously report basically harmless content, hoping the other user gets banned. It's just human nature to get angry with someone and then seek revenge in some form, and one modern form of that is to "report" and hope the other person is banned from something you assume they like to do. And yes, some people want to reinforce their mindset that they are better than/more important than others and reporting and hoping for a ban achieves this for them.

However, if I owned a company that created all these kinds of platforms that allowed people to communicate, interact, etc. I would not be okay with people utilizing MY platforms for certain things, either. Like harassment, scams, racism etc. I would also be concerned about the best way to make money and allowing my good users to be harassed, scammed, or confronted with inappropriate subjects probably wouldn't be the best atmosphere for continued subs and therefore money making. Example: I really don't like when the Trade Chats devolve into some detailed sexual discussion that includes descriptions of... actions. If the game was totally lax about this and allowed it all the time everywhere- I would not want to be a part of that community and I think a lot of people would feel the same way.

I think there is a balance in letting people voice their basically harmless opinions, but not letting people run around making the atmosphere uncomfortable for the majority of players.
Censorship is telling a man he can't eat a steak because a baby can't chew it.
you ....This is NOT a troll post
me .... thats what a Troll would say
11/07/2018 01:23 PMPosted by Moonshinefox
Because people can and will act in ways that are disruptive of the community at large if there is no consequence for it. It runs afoul the Tolorance Paradox.

The paradox of tolerance was described by Karl Popper in 1945. The paradox states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant will eventually be seized or destroyed by the intolerant.

Popper came to the seemingly paradoxical conclusion that states "in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance."
That's actually a really well thought out conclusion. I must look up this Karl Popper.
Here's a fun thought exercise for you to try sometime when you're reading forum posts: Look at the number of achievement points and the number of posts a person has. The more posts they have than achievement points the more dubious I would be of what they say. Obviously if they're either a level 1 with no achieves then they're either a forum troll that's too embarrassed to post on their main, or an obvious outsider shill account.

Obviously, if someone has 100 achievement points, with 80k posts I'd be very dubious about their "Years of experience with in game 'toxicity'". They're literally a level 10 toon sitting in either Stormwind or Orgrimmar, doing nothing but spending endless hours spamming /general and /trade creating the 'toxicity' they're whining about.

As someone who's watched this trend in multiple hobbies, this is how it starts. Forums are infiltrated by people crying about 'toxicity'. They talk about the need for "bans" and "censorship" and for the most part they don't even pursue that hobby, despite touting themselves as 'long time enthusiasts' with 'years of time invested'. They drive away anyone who disagrees with them and ultimately the creators are left with input from noone but the crybabies. Unfortunately Blizzard is located within a political echo chamber that highly encourages the suppression of free speech. Time, effort, and money they should be investing in producing quality content has instead been invested in the services of professional crybabies.

TLDR, the result is that the creators wind up producing a product that paying customers aren't thrilled with. The hobby as a whole collapses, and the crybabies move on to another.
11/07/2018 06:28 PMPosted by Dartt
Look at the number of achievement points and the number of posts a person has. The more posts they have than achievement points the more dubious I would be of what they say.


So my numbers and armory make me out to be a forum reader/writer at work and play at home? Someone opinionated and quick to type comments and answers to questions and look for nitpicky things to laugh at - like grammar mistakes and tyops?

Cuz that's what I've been doing for 13 years here. I liek to read and write, a lot.
Because many people post here for the sake of inciting and flaming other players. If you can't handle someone disagreeing with you without retorting with personal attacks, then you should be banned.
11/07/2018 12:24 PMPosted by Valên

It just struck me as odd when reading another's post someone jumped into only say you are reported and I hope you get permabanned.

My question is why would PLAYERS go out of their way to attack other players because of something that was said?


Because they either don't realize they themselves can get reported for that post, or are trolls and (claim) don't care.



I am old


I'm old, too, and I don't understand why the concept of "what goes around, comes around" is somehow considered not to apply on the internet.
We can't have people spreading there facist ideas here on our forums! They need to be silenced and banned asap.
11/07/2018 01:49 PMPosted by Smadinker
There are many very sensitive players with very thin skin who haven't got an adult grasp on their emotions.
'

And they all complain about having to follow the same rules as everyone else and "censorship."
This is NOT a troll post. I honestly dont understand the people who go into a post, report it and hope the poster gets a ban. It just makes no sense to me.

I just dont get it.

Let me turn this around on you: What forum behaviors currently prohibited by the Code of Conduct are you eager to engage in? Which, freely practiced, would make the Forums a better place for discussing the game? How?

Edit: Here's the list: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/code-of-conduct/

Please give specific examples of how you feel any of these can improve Forum discussion.
11/07/2018 06:28 PMPosted by Dartt
if someone has 100 achievement points, with 80k posts

That doesn't actually exist though. I'd know about them.
A Teamfortress 2 server community I'm a admin for tried lifting a no-racism rule sometime ago. People complained about censorship and feeling it was a unnecessary rule so we got rid of it. The general idea was to just mute people you disliked.

The second day the rule was gone there were people in the servers playing insanely racist music, doing racist sing alongs, spamming the N bomb and all sorts of other activities.

It drove off a good deal of people from the server and caused player population to decline

Needless to say we had to reinstate the rule not too long after.

I would love to sit in trade chat memeing to my hearts content with no fear of getting smacked by Blizzard's rules but alas these rules are in place for a reason. WoW would turn into 4chan and drive off quite a lot of people if it goes rules-free

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