Ret sucks compared to some other specs

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
Playing ret pally right now is honestly really annoying. It feels like the class developers don't even play the game.

The main reason ret sucks is because we bring nothing unique to the table. Right now ret pally is just a basic melee class that doesn't do as much damage as others.

Outside of basic numbers being lower than other classes (especially in AOE DPS) the core class mechanics and utilities are basic. Ret pally is pretty much a bad version of a demon hunter. LITERALLY!!!!!

I don't exaggerate when i say literally. Lets compare the two classes.
Demons hunters have a 10 yard kick while the ret one is melee and yet they are on the same CD (i don't think any melee should have a range kick). I see people always saying that ret has the best defensive in game with bubble, however bubble is a 5 min CD, 3.5 min if u talent into it. Demon hunters on the other hand can spec into netherwalk which is an immunity on a 2 min CD. Shield of vengeance for ret is on a 2 min CD while blur for a demon hunter is on a 1 min CD. When it comes to damage output Demon Hunter destroys ret in any situation well more like even on pure single target but the problem is there aren't many pure single target situations which makes Demon hunter better in most cases. When it comes to mobility demon hunters are king so lets not even talk about that. While one might say ret can bring BOP to the table which can be very usefull in some cases i say Demon Hunter brings Darkness which is better in most. When it comes to CC ret has a single target stun on a 1 min CD (unless they talent to reduce it) while demon hunter has a basic AOE stun on a 40 sec CD. Even when looking at basic core rotation ret gets the short stick. to maximize DPS ret has to talent into inquisition, hammer of wrath, and wake of ashes which brings the core single target rotation to 7 buttons while the Demon hunter Core rotation is 5 and the worst part is Demon hunter AOE is baseline in their single target spells so they don't even have to worry about a different rotation during AOE.

My point is anything a ret pally can do a Demon Hunters can do better. So whats the point of having ret in the game? The fact that these two classes exist in the same game shows me that class developers either don't play this game at all, or they are deliberately trying to make some classes better in every way.

Ret needs to be fixed or other classes like Demon Hunters need to get nerfed in many ways.
I don't mind class balance being shaky for the first couple months of an expansion, but with a competent dev team this level of discrepancy should be fixed by the first major patch. The clock is ticking.
I don't get topics like these ret is fine.

Basically this topic is just saying because you aren't as good or better than the best class in the game you suck.

That is stupid.
Yeah I have to agree with above, ret isnt the worst, you are complaining because your main isnt the best ever at everything.

What you will end up getting with your incessant whining and the same from those like you is classes that are the same where possible.

That is to say shallow, and dare I say it, pruned. Posts like this are the reason the game is bleeding out. Go play Diablo Immortal if you want perfectly level balance. And for the good of the game and your own gaming experience I hope that Blizzard continues to ignore you.
11/12/2018 07:26 AMPosted by Slashdozer
Yeah I have to agree with above, ret isnt the worst, you are complaining because your main isnt the best ever at everything.


To play a blood dk and shout down from the top of the mountain. You're cute.

I won't post the warcraftlog rankings showing ret firmly at the bottom of the list. Tell us almighty one: how is ret fine?
11/12/2018 07:26 AMPosted by Slashdozer
Yeah I have to agree with above, ret isnt the worst, you are complaining because your main isnt the best ever at everything.

What you will end up getting with your incessant whining and the same from those like you is classes that are the same where possible.

That is to say shallow, and dare I say it, pruned. Posts like this are the reason the game is bleeding out. Go play Diablo Immortal if you want perfectly level balance. And for the good of the game and your own gaming experience I hope that Blizzard continues to ignore you.


Ret doesn’t even excel at what it’s designed for, and you think that’s ok? Stick to mythic raiding because you’d be lfr at class design.

One of the lowest rep for high keys
One of if not the lowest dps in Uldir.
No cleave and bad aoe combined with just solid st and that’s ok. Man, I didn’t see it before but the ret hate is real.
Its awesome to see a BM Hunter and Blood DK saying that everything is fine and stop whining. Yet give no examples of where it is fine or suggestions of a "Lrn2Play" issue going on. Only dismissive comments with nothing empirical or logic based reasoning on why they dismiss the premise ret is not fine. Just anecdotal and Ad Hominem fallacy, nothing more.

Ret is not in a good spot and could use to be brought up to par with other melee specs, specifically in AoE but also single target. This is evidenced by their turn out in the Arena tournaments and MDI.

I had a good laugh when reading this.
It's so cute when people have no idea of what they are speaking off try to throw down some pretty valid argument about a class that is pretty underpowered and underperforms in every single scenario.

Please mr bm hunter, and mr blood dk, prove me wrong when i say that rets do subpar single target and terrible aoe. Please link me warcraft logs, and raider.io on m+ representation and what place is the first ret on the top 100 players.

Also, please show me the knowledge you have about our class, like what is best for aoe? Using Seal of Command or Seal of Blood? And for cleaving situations, what should i use that doesnt make me lose dps when i try to use DS on two targets? Please help me.

I'm waiting your feedback.
11/12/2018 09:16 AMPosted by Meadamemnon
Its awesome to see a BM Hunter and Blood DK saying that everything is fine and stop whining. Yet give no examples of where it is fine or suggestions of a "Lrn2Play" issue going on. Only dismissive comments with nothing empirical or logic based reasoning on why they dismiss the premise ret is not fine. Just anecdotal and Ad Hominem fallacy, nothing more.

Ret is not in a good spot and could use to be brought up to par with other melee specs, specifically in AoE but also single target. This is evidenced by their turn out in the Arena tournaments and MDI.

I had a good laugh when reading this.


It is fine.

You are saying because DH are better that means ret sucks.

You are just whining cause you aren't the best class in the game.

You suck compared to DH? Newsflash so does everyone else.
You want to see a real !@#$ class see Marksman.
11/12/2018 10:03 AMPosted by Mofuggaz
11/12/2018 09:16 AMPosted by Meadamemnon
Its awesome to see a BM Hunter and Blood DK saying that everything is fine and stop whining. Yet give no examples of where it is fine or suggestions of a "Lrn2Play" issue going on. Only dismissive comments with nothing empirical or logic based reasoning on why they dismiss the premise ret is not fine. Just anecdotal and Ad Hominem fallacy, nothing more.

Ret is not in a good spot and could use to be brought up to par with other melee specs, specifically in AoE but also single target. This is evidenced by their turn out in the Arena tournaments and MDI.

I had a good laugh when reading this.


It is fine.

You are saying because DH are better that means ret sucks.

You are just whining cause you aren't the best class in the game.

You suck compared to DH? Newsflash so does everyone else.


You got the point, stop pretending you dont. he just compared the two classes. Once Blizzard said classes are supposed to have niches, that make them be good on some situations, and not so good on the others, but right now some classes are just extremely good in EVERYTHING and others just don't fit in ANYTHING.

Now tell me mr bm "i know it all" hunter, what is the reason you would invite a ret paladin on a m+ 10? What is the reason you would invite a ret paladin to progression a raid? Paladins used to bring some awesome buffs, some cool auras and stuff, but the point is, we have nothing unique, we have nothing good salvo for wisdom, but its not nearly enough to bring a ret to a raid, so i ask of you again, why bring a class like ret, when you can bring anything else that do everything much better and actually give some cool debuffs like dhs, or monks?

Thats the point you're missing, no utility like off healing or bop are nearly enough to bring a ret to do anything else than just 4fun content.

Right now the best utility lies on the classes that also just happen to excel in everything they do, is this working as intended? Please tell me mr bm hunter.
How about some numbers eh?

Raiding;
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19

And now M+ @ +15 since this will be the new standard after the next content patch.

https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season-bfa-1/all/world/leaderboards#role=dps:mode=unique:minMythicLevel=15:maxMythicLevel=15

I won't even begin to talk about PvP because I just don't have interest in it anymore on this game.

I love my ret, I really do but I am faced with the fact that our rotation is clunky, has LOTS of down time even with massive amounts of haste. And our "utility" is mostly gimmicky it's not a make or break utility that a raid leader is going to say "hey we need a ret pally in here for ________".

And while Yes marksman is in a worse spot, you have BM you can change to and still play the same class, we have to either go holy and heal or go prot and tank, usually meaning we no longer have a raid spot. I personally have been playing my alt DH and it's fantastic to have a rotation with no gaps, no down time, and just plain FUN to play. I do NOT wish for DH's to be nerfed, I wish for the other classes to be fixed so they are again FUN to play and competitive.
11/12/2018 10:06 AMPosted by Mofuggaz
You want to see a real !@#$ class see Marksman.


This isn't a competition between !@#$ specs for which is the most %^-*. Ret, MM, Feral, Enhance, Shadow, Unholy are all in dire need of utility, damage, and mechanics changes, we shouldn't be arguing about which of us has it worst, we should be outlining the problems we have and campaigning for them to be fixed.

The comparison between ret and DH seems fairly fine, since in Legion they were both very strong cleave dps. Now ret lost its strong cleave, but it isn't good on single target either, as illsutrated by uldir boss damage statistics across the board.
11/12/2018 07:26 AMPosted by Slashdozer
Yeah I have to agree with above, ret isnt the worst, you are complaining because your main isnt the best ever at everything


But it is tho lol. Look at mythic uldir or mythic + leaderboard
This is really the first expansion I haven't mained a Retribution Paladin and to be honest, I think it's largely down to the overall "feel" of it. I've always loved the Paladin theme, but when it comes to really nailing that "vengeful holy warrior" fantasy, the gameplay really falls flat for me. It lacks cohesion, especially since the holy power system does not play into either of its other specializations. And while I haven't really encountered the vast downtime gaps that others have noted, I can't help but feel that the downtime for Retribution feels more disruptive to the overall flow of gamplay than it would with other specializations like Feral Druid or Arms Warrior.
Why bring a ret when you can bring a rogue with shroud and more single target and AOE DPS?
11/12/2018 10:21 AMPosted by Kyarïna
11/12/2018 10:03 AMPosted by Mofuggaz
...

It is fine.

You are saying because DH are better that means ret sucks.

You are just whining cause you aren't the best class in the game.

You suck compared to DH? Newsflash so does everyone else.


You got the point, stop pretending you dont. he just compared the two classes. Once Blizzard said classes are supposed to have niches, that make them be good on some situations, and not so good on the others, but right now some classes are just extremely good in EVERYTHING and others just don't fit in ANYTHING.

Now tell me mr bm "i know it all" hunter, what is the reason you would invite a ret paladin on a m+ 10? What is the reason you would invite a ret paladin to progression a raid? Paladins used to bring some awesome buffs, some cool auras and stuff, but the point is, we have nothing unique, we have nothing good salvo for wisdom, but its not nearly enough to bring a ret to a raid, so i ask of you again, why bring a class like ret, when you can bring anything else that do everything much better and actually give some cool debuffs like dhs, or monks?

Thats the point you're missing, no utility like off healing or bop are nearly enough to bring a ret to do anything else than just 4fun content.

Right now the best utility lies on the classes that also just happen to excel in everything they do, is this working as intended? Please tell me mr bm hunter.


Why bring any class but a DH?

Again this is a nerf DH situation not buff ret pally situation.
11/12/2018 09:59 PMPosted by Ashenan
Why bring a ret when you can bring a rogue with shroud and more single target and AOE DPS?


You can say this about every class in the game besides demon Hunter.

Ret isn't special.
11/12/2018 10:12 PMPosted by Mofuggaz
11/12/2018 09:59 PMPosted by Ashenan
Why bring a ret when you can bring a rogue with shroud and more single target and AOE DPS?


You can say this about every class in the game besides demon Hunter.

Ret isn't special.


Oh let me fix that for you: Why bring a ret over a DH and/or rogue? There we go.

Also I'm not saying ret is special. In fact, the only ones that are special are DH and rogues. They are the two perfect classes for raid and M+. For M+, there's no reason NOT to have a DH or rogue in the group.
11/12/2018 10:12 PMPosted by Mofuggaz
...

You can say this about every class in the game besides demon Hunter.

Ret isn't special.


Oh let me fix that for you: Why bring a ret over a DH and/or rogue. There we go.


Why bring a surv hunter over....

Why bring a warrior over....

Why bring a feral over.....

Why bring an enhance over.....

Why bring a dk over.....

Again you aren't special.

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