Fire vs Frost?

Arenas
Specifically for someone who isn't stacking blaster master, what do you guys recommend for rmp? I played frost to about 1750 rating (first time doing arenas this season) and picked up a new rogue who said i should go fire. We basically rotated the burst cycle so on the 2nd cycle with trinkets down he'd smoke bomb and i'd combusion meteor etc. someone dead.

Which is fine and all but I don't really see how that burst was better / worse than my frost burst with comet / ice nova / ray of frost. and while i was learning the spec we dropped like 150 pts (i think we ended at like 1650 as I started to figure out how to play) but i found it much harder to kite turbo comps in fire compared to frost. Is fire outright still better than frost just because of the non-gcd burst? Keeping in mind most of our games were won in 5s kidneys.
fire RMP is better overall

frost is for when you have teamates that need the slows badly for peels, ie. other casters so they can get distance

frost is also better for when you need control

fire has ability to setup poly's easier with dragon's breath

frost has ability to slow down the game literally (good for if you keep facing a comp that kills you and you keep losing)

frost is more durable

But rogue has kidney and insane dmg, so why not go fire and 1 shot people that don't use all their defensives, then run until you have a reset and go?

I hate rogues and only play MLS though. But if a fire mage isn't retarded it's 100 times scarier than frost mage RMP/pala.
10/19/2018 08:36 AMPosted by Alexandriusv
fire RMP is better overall

frost is for when you have teamates that need the slows badly for peels, ie. other casters so they can get distance

frost is also better for when you need control

fire has ability to setup poly's easier with dragon's breath

frost has ability to slow down the game literally (good for if you keep facing a comp that kills you and you keep losing)

frost is more durable

But rogue has kidney and insane dmg, so why not go fire and 1 shot people that don't use all their defensives, then run until you have a reset and go?

I hate rogues and only play MLS though. But if a fire mage isn't retarded it's 100 times scarier than frost mage RMP/pala.


Well that's kind of my point though, when i was pushing to 1750 it's not like i wasn't doing the same thing. You can still burst someone. You're not casting GPB into that kidney ever it's usually combusion comet FBFB gpb then w/e if he's still alive. But with pet nova into it you get the shatter proc on ice nova / comet anyways then spam ice lance into it and it's similar burst, IMO, since i'm not abusing blaster master.
There is a right and wrong way to play all specs.

Right now fire is so good because of it's EXTREME instant burst window and basically dragon's breath to land polys.

Not using master blaster in rogue/mage is gimping yourself for no reason.

Use it until it gets nerfed if you want the optimal setup.

After it's nerfed go fire starter and get combust up quicker and get haste procs with non-crit fireballs for fast polys and greater pyros. This will allow you more "go" windows for rogue kidneys.

Comet storm was nerfed, ray + glacial were nerfed early on, intellect on frigid grasp was nerfed, frost burst is completely sub-par to fire no comparison.

And if your rogue double cheaps into a kidney or uses blind and you sheep one DPS/healer you can definitely get a greater pyro off on someone who is in that kidney, then combust rotation. Might take a blink.
There is a right and wrong way to play all specs.

Right now fire is so good because of it's EXTREME instant burst window and basically dragon's breath to land polys.

Not using master blaster in rogue/mage is gimping yourself for no reason.

Use it until it gets nerfed if you want the optimal setup.

Comet storm was nerfed, intellect on frigid grasp was nerfed, frost burst is completely sub-par to fire.

And if your rogue double cheaps into a kidney or uses blind and you sheep one DPS/healer you can definitely get a greater pyro off on someone who is in that kidney, then combust rotation. Might take a blink.


The only reason i'm not using master blaster is i don't have the azerite pieces and i only pvp. So... I just won't get it. the 2 azerite pieces from pvp don't have master blaster and the pve one I got from a WQ didn't have it. So unless I get lucky from WQ or pvp i won't have it. That's the only reason i'm not using it. Otherwise yeah I could potentially get a gpb off but in almost all cases I found it totally unnessary if we actually set up our burst window properly that's all.
10/19/2018 09:09 AMPosted by Amoring
There is a right and wrong way to play all specs.

Right now fire is so good because of it's EXTREME instant burst window and basically dragon's breath to land polys.

Not using master blaster in rogue/mage is gimping yourself for no reason.

Use it until it gets nerfed if you want the optimal setup.

Comet storm was nerfed, intellect on frigid grasp was nerfed, frost burst is completely sub-par to fire.

And if your rogue double cheaps into a kidney or uses blind and you sheep one DPS/healer you can definitely get a greater pyro off on someone who is in that kidney, then combust rotation. Might take a blink.


The only reason i'm not using master blaster is i don't have the azerite pieces and i only pvp. So... I just won't get it. the 2 azerite pieces from pvp don't have master blaster and the pve one I got from a WQ didn't have it. So unless I get lucky from WQ or pvp i won't have it. That's the only reason i'm not using it.


I feel that bro.

Even without master blaster the dmg is great. Don't go haste go master/vers on gear if you can, you could eek out maybe 5-6% more dmg doing that on average for your combust goes. Sure, you will do like 10-20% less damage than other fire mages but if you have a good setup in a kidney you will still get the kill easily.
10/19/2018 09:09 AMPosted by Amoring
...

The only reason i'm not using master blaster is i don't have the azerite pieces and i only pvp. So... I just won't get it. the 2 azerite pieces from pvp don't have master blaster and the pve one I got from a WQ didn't have it. So unless I get lucky from WQ or pvp i won't have it. That's the only reason i'm not using it.


I feel that bro.

Even without master blaster the dmg is great. Don't go haste go master/vers on gear if you can, you could eek out maybe 5-6% more dmg doing that on average for your combust goes. Sure, you will do like 10-20% less damage than other fire mages but if you have a good setup in a kidney you will still get the kill easily.


i'll keep trying it more.

i ask because the rogue last night that was teaching me was multiglad so i'm sure he's right (and your'e right) i'm just trying to justify it to myself to get over the road block. it was disheartening to lose quite a few games last night as I learned fire and think "i could have survived that if i was frost from double nova or cold snap or cone" etc. But I just have to figure it out.
I mean, if it means anything i'm a multiglad mage and my first session as fire was BAD lol. I didn't one shot anything because I used wrong traits and playstyle.

People say "oh my god this is so OP if your not 2900 right now quit the game" and it's a ton of hyperbole.

Basically, everyone has to work with the ideal talents as the meta and game changes/nerfs roll in.

Adjusting to fire takes a second, i'd recommend practicing one shotting people in 2s with the standard burst rotation: Meteor > Combust as it's falling and ur on global > fireblast x2 > pyro > fireblast > pyro (should be dead) if not dead press scorch for a crit (they are below 30% and ur tier 1 talent is C) and then finally , Pyro.

You will put out so much pressure the odds your going to die are preety low usually.

Also, i've seen ALOT of bad re-roll rogues so if they aren't multiglad on rogue id be dubious.

Good rogues are absolutely able to hard carry right now.

Bad ones are still annoying af.
Play what you enjoy. Personally I think Fire Blaster is gonna get nerfed so no sense in learning a new spec. Frost does fine, you just need to do more "goes" because your damage might not force CD's.
Well that makes me feel better. Yeah, without master blaster I'm not sure if i should still have 3x fireblast but instead pheonix? I'm not benefitiing from spamming fireblast outside of the dps it's doing itself.
10/19/2018 01:22 PMPosted by Chorong
Play what you enjoy. Personally I think Fire Blaster is gonna get nerfed so no sense in learning a new spec. Frost does fine, you just need to do more "goes" because your damage might not force CD's.


That's the thing though, I find good rogues are nearly enough to force cd's solo so long as you've got proper cc's. Its why so many games mages can do least amount of dmg, only matters for the burst phase, that's it.
Fire can still almost solo without master blaster. I'd say just do 1 mythic +0 to get the trait, its super easy. I literally got 2 peices in like 30 minutes with master blaster on them randomly.
10/19/2018 08:36 AMPosted by Alexandriusv
fire RMP is better overall

frost is for when you have teamates that need the slows badly for peels, ie. other casters so they can get distance

frost is also better for when you need control

fire has ability to setup poly's easier with dragon's breath

frost has ability to slow down the game literally (good for if you keep facing a comp that kills you and you keep losing)

frost is more durable

But rogue has kidney and insane dmg, so why not go fire and 1 shot people that don't use all their defensives, then run until you have a reset and go?

I hate rogues and only play MLS though. But if a fire mage isn't retarded it's 100 times scarier than frost mage RMP/pala.


If you are arguing this for the 2100 cr people yes. If you are arguing for other cr then uhmm
10/19/2018 01:52 PMPosted by Jibblles
10/19/2018 08:36 AMPosted by Alexandriusv
fire RMP is better overall

frost is for when you have teamates that need the slows badly for peels, ie. other casters so they can get distance

frost is also better for when you need control

fire has ability to setup poly's easier with dragon's breath

frost has ability to slow down the game literally (good for if you keep facing a comp that kills you and you keep losing)

frost is more durable

But rogue has kidney and insane dmg, so why not go fire and 1 shot people that don't use all their defensives, then run until you have a reset and go?

I hate rogues and only play MLS though. But if a fire mage isn't retarded it's 100 times scarier than frost mage RMP/pala.


If you are arguing this for the 2100 cr people yes. If you are arguing for other cr then uhmm


2100 cr right now, literally haven't tried climbing until now and have like 75% winrate this week so yeh not gonna have a problem getting 2400, just like I haven't had a problem getting glad any season I've played.

Besides the rating banter, explain how what I said was incorrect? Bring a 2900 mage in here to say so? or troll on lvl 1 character?

Rating is also not even important if the person understands the meta. Anyone thinking frost burst is anywhere near fire burst post nerf (icy veins + comet storm) is insane and or retarded.
You sound like a democrat. Can't stand anyone presenting a different opinion than yours so you present debatable bona fides and start slinging mud and calling others retarded.

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