should i make a sham for 8.1?

Shaman
Shaman have never been good. I like the idea of enhance shaman and think they have some of the coolest looking mogs but they seem to always struggle.
I am having the same dilemma. I am currently maining hpal, but feeling like the heals are a bit stale. I guess i mostly miss the use of healing rain and efflorescence. Anyway, I am thinking about either going with the shaman, which I have been contemplating since I came back in legion, or just sticking with the paladin. I want to eventually get into healing mythic raids, but I'm mostly a bg fanatic.
Another thing about maining a shaman, which I have found...is that people just assume that you're a terrible player.

In other words, within the guild and on 5 mans where people get to know you on teamspeak or chat...it seems that people just take you along and expect you to perform poorly.

Then, they are wickedly surprised about how competent you truly are when you bring an 'alt' that tops the meters. They even make comments, like wow how are you doing so well and what rotation you're using.

It's like...I'm pressing the buttons...some classes have buttons that really work and some that don't work so well....
[quote="207683495789"]

Shaman are not fine OP, don't take some random Hunter's opinion for granted. Especially one who is telling you to read icy veins. Check out Storm, Earth and Lava for elemental guides if you're interested in that spec.

But honestly, save yourself the frustration and don't roll Shaman, unless you enjoy being the underdog.


I had to reply to this, just based on how absurd your comment is. the guides on icy are written by the guy who runs that website.

Our AOE damage is quite good, and with the talent to allow a 25% change to give a free earth quake which can happen 4 times in a row, will shoot you to the top easily.

[/quote]

what talent is this
I have only play shaman this xpac and am loving it.

The problem is that most people are legion babies riding the coattails of Ele from mid legion to end of legion. The others have zero idea of how to hear or play their ele. The rest have zero idea that ele is always worst at the beginning of an xpac but finishes strong because we are so multiple stat dependent.

Now you take all these confused misguided poor souls and they breed misinformation to the masses and creates a situation where we get a bad stigma and we become less than desirable in competitive content.

Ele is fine and will only get better.

From my play xp I am almost always too dmg and I have never ever been turned away because I was ele and not enhance.

Hell I just finished a M+ with another ele the other day.
@Madalynn

I was highly skeptical of your post regarding Elemental Shaman stat weights, so I went ahead and started modeling variable ilvls across toons and was totally shocked to find out you were right. I messed around with Balance, Arcane, Fire, Frost, and Shadow this expansion, but what I found running sims on your character took me aback.

At your current 368 ilvl you are currently getting more DPS per point out of both haste and mastery than intellect. I had to re-run my sims, I thought that couldn't possibly be correct, none of the other specs I've played have secondaries that scaled that well, but there it is. Further more, all 5 of your stats scale higher than any of my Mage's secondaries in Frost, Fire, or Arcane at only 8 ilvls lower and 4 of them gain more DPS per point than my Frost mage's Intellect stat.

Wow, it's looking like Elemental is going to tear up the next raiding tier.
10/29/2018 07:57 AMPosted by Leviath
10/29/2018 07:07 AMPosted by Elythis
Shaman are doing just fine, take the time to learn the class. Read icy-veins and things like that. You will only notice the slight disadvantage if you are mythic raiding and a super hardcore player. Everything else they are fine (yes including M+).


Shaman are not fine OP, don't take some random Hunter's opinion for granted. Especially one who is telling you to read icy veins. Check out Storm, Earth and Lava for elemental guides if you're interested in that spec.


lol Storm, Earth and Lava wrote the icy veins article.
11/04/2018 07:36 AMPosted by Madalynn
I have only play shaman this xpac and am loving it.

The problem is that most people are legion babies riding the coattails of Ele from mid legion to end of legion. The others have zero idea of how to hear or play their ele. The rest have zero idea that ele is always worst at the beginning of an xpac but finishes strong because we are so multiple stat dependent.

Now you take all these confused misguided poor souls and they breed misinformation to the masses and creates a situation where we get a bad stigma and we become less than desirable in competitive content.

Ele is fine and will only get better.

From my play xp I am almost always too dmg and I have never ever been turned away because I was ele and not enhance.

Hell I just finished a M+ with another ele the other day.


While it's true that ele does scale relatively well with secondaries, scaling is never enough without bandaids. There is not an expansion within my memory that ele has launched just fine and didn't need buffs throughout to even be a consideration, IE the situation we are in once again. I've seen you spread your fair share of misinformation and then some.

As for anecdotal "evidence", I see a lot of people bragging about being the top dps in their raid or 5 man, and using that to claim the spec is doing well. I can hop into a pug heroic or m+ and chances are I can wipe the floor with them. In my mythic group with similarly skilled players, I can parse higher than them, but I still won't touch their actual dps.

As for FoTM, let people have fun. I literally do not care if they've suffered with me or if they decided they would enjoy another class more. If they come back once we get changed/tuned/fixed, good for them. This sort of "I'm better than you because I haven't rerolled" class loyalty is absurd and childish.

To the OP, if you enjoy the playstyle or lore of shaman, then I say absolutely give it a shot, but only if you expect to play casually. If you would like to get into more serious content, I would say hold off until 8.1 to see how the changes pan out.
10/26/2018 11:01 PMPosted by Meguma
Honestly tho, level a monk, enjoy it. It's a great class with amazing sustain and the absolute best burst in the game. When you kill someone which you do fast, they heal you. They scale VERY well with gear. the rotation/s feel solid.

Have you played Monk since losing your artifact? Windwalker self heals are garbage.
11/04/2018 07:36 AMPosted by Madalynn
I have only play shaman this xpac and am loving it.

The problem is that most people are legion babies riding the coattails of Ele from mid legion to end of legion. The others have zero idea of how to hear or play their ele. The rest have zero idea that ele is always worst at the beginning of an xpac but finishes strong because we are so multiple stat dependent.

Now you take all these confused misguided poor souls and they breed misinformation to the masses and creates a situation where we get a bad stigma and we become less than desirable in competitive content.

Ele is fine and will only get better.

From my play xp I am almost always too dmg and I have never ever been turned away because I was ele and not enhance.

Hell I just finished a M+ with another ele the other day.


While it's true that ele does scale relatively well with secondaries, scaling is never enough without bandaids. There is not an expansion within my memory that ele has launched just fine and didn't need buffs throughout to even be a consideration, IE the situation we are in once again. I've seen you spread your fair share of misinformation and then some.

As for anecdotal "evidence", I see a lot of people bragging about being the top dps in their raid or 5 man, and using that to claim the spec is doing well. I can hop into a pug heroic or m+ and chances are I can wipe the floor with them. In my mythic group with similarly skilled players, I can parse higher than them, but I still won't touch their actual dps.

As for FoTM, let people have fun. I literally do not care if they've suffered with me or if they decided they would enjoy another class more. If they come back once we get changed/tuned/fixed, good for them. This sort of "I'm better than you because I haven't rerolled" class loyalty is absurd and childish.

To the OP, if you enjoy the playstyle or lore of shaman, then I say absolutely give it a shot, but only if you expect to play casually. If you would like to get into more serious content, I would say hold off until 8.1 to see how the changes pan out.


This antedoctal evidence of how ele performs in pugs is what in fact makes ele ok. This is no longer a hard cure part of a coordinated well oil machine game. The instances are getting easier and easier, scripted bosses are more boring than they ever have been. Oh Noes boss casts x move to y. Even "hard core" raising guilds are falling prey to the ver present bring the cheesiest current FotM and if/when FotM changes makes sure we have all the other classes spec covered so we can keep the cheese rolling.

The same thing in PVP. There aren't anymore RBG teams, it's a few people who have a very in depth friend list that is running the FotM cheesiest comps until the next FotM changes the Meta.

2 kinds of people

1: I play the class/spec that is fun to me

2: I really like x but it isnt OP and being OP is more important to me.

If ele isnt best in the top 3% but excels in the other 97% is it really underperforming.

Sort of like my income sucks compared to the top 3% of the country so using your standard I am a failure but compared to the other 97% of the country my family and I are living large.
I was leveling yesterday and was happy to see a lot of shaman leveling and running around.
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While it's true that ele does scale relatively well with secondaries, scaling is never enough without bandaids. There is not an expansion within my memory that ele has launched just fine and didn't need buffs throughout to even be a consideration, IE the situation we are in once again. I've seen you spread your fair share of misinformation and then some.

As for anecdotal "evidence", I see a lot of people bragging about being the top dps in their raid or 5 man, and using that to claim the spec is doing well. I can hop into a pug heroic or m+ and chances are I can wipe the floor with them. In my mythic group with similarly skilled players, I can parse higher than them, but I still won't touch their actual dps.

As for FoTM, let people have fun. I literally do not care if they've suffered with me or if they decided they would enjoy another class more. If they come back once we get changed/tuned/fixed, good for them. This sort of "I'm better than you because I haven't rerolled" class loyalty is absurd and childish.

To the OP, if you enjoy the playstyle or lore of shaman, then I say absolutely give it a shot, but only if you expect to play casually. If you would like to get into more serious content, I would say hold off until 8.1 to see how the changes pan out.


This antedoctal evidence of how ele performs in pugs is what in fact makes ele ok. This is no longer a hard cure part of a coordinated well oil machine game. The instances are getting easier and easier, scripted bosses are more boring than they ever have been. Oh Noes boss casts x move to y. Even "hard core" raising guilds are falling prey to the ver present bring the cheesiest current FotM and if/when FotM changes makes sure we have all the other classes spec covered so we can keep the cheese rolling.

The same thing in PVP. There aren't anymore RBG teams, it's a few people who have a very in depth friend list that is running the FotM cheesiest comps until the next FotM changes the Meta.

2 kinds of people

1: I play the class/spec that is fun to me

2: I really like x but it isnt OP and being OP is more important to me.

If ele isnt best in the top 3% but excels in the other 97% is it really underperforming.

Sort of like my income sucks compared to the top 3% of the country so using your standard I am a failure but compared to the other 97% of the country my family and I are living large.


This was mostly incoherent, but I'll try to do my best to address the points I assume you were trying to make.

I can join a pug in mythic raid gear, and I do well because I outgear the content and the other raiders. Unless someone does the same content that I do, they won't necessarily be able to do that. Everyone has different ideas of what "fine" is, and for your purposes the class probably is fine. For mine it is not, and is backed up by an overwhelming amount of data. As for your percentages, you pretty much have those backwards. Literally the only thing we excel at is sustained aoe on 4+ targets. We are below average or well below average on everything else.

As for FoTM again, what other people do doesn't affect you. It doesn't matter. They pay for their sub and can do what they want with it. Full stop.
Monk and shaman are both fine choices. I love them both but I'm partial to shaman. It's the best and we're going to be getting a tank spec in the future if I keep believing it's true. (Very not real atm)

Shamans bring incredible utility to 5 mans with our earth ele, which now enhance has available as well. You should obviously understand why this ability is dope.

A crazy 12 sec cooldown interrupt. This is the shortest interrupt cd out of any classes. I mean, the amount of dmg mit alone you can bring to a group is amazing. Not to mention that Restoration has access to this!!! The only healer in the game that can traditionally interrupt. Rarely spoken about.

Thundercrash can, if used correctly, act sometimes as an AoE interrupt if the mobs can be affected by it and/or help the tank kite in high keys with it's slowing component. In addition to kiting we have earthbind totem to accomplish the same goal.

Tremor totem is back which removes fear/charm/sleep. 99% of shamans are not utilizing this. I can think of uses in King's Rest. How many groups have you had wipe on a high key to the first pull because nobody know's how to dispel. Well who cares now. Just kill them.

Capacitor totem.. aoe stun on a 1min cd which can be 40sec w/ talents

30% movement speed whenever you want, 50% movement speed and 20% dmg reduction w/ talents. Earthquake sometimes knocks enemies down, but to be honest I'm not sure how useful this actually is. The tooltip is very vague.

We can remove curses, waterwalking, hearth like a ma $#@!*&, sheep, Reincarnation?!

If you're any good you'll kill it on shaman and they're soooo good. Tuning is whatever. It'll come around. Actually some super interesting things are happening on the PTR.

Be a shaman!
For the fun and feel of the class, I'd say go for it.

BUT, if you're looking for over all competitive DPS/Healing I'd pass until we see what happens in 8.1.

Not trying to sound negative, but it's kind of the situation of the class.
Its posts like this that continue to eat away at the reputation of this class. Shaman, of all specs, are absolutely fine. If you raid with Method or another 1% guild, or are competeting in the 2019 MDI, maybe dont play a shaman. But for everything else, they are 100% viable. I time 10-15s, mythic raid and do just fine.

Are we the best? No. But to say we arent viable for high end content is just factually wrong.

And in pvp, enhance and resto are actually top tier specs and ele isnt far behind.

Play what you want. The spec is fun, has amazing visuals and offers a lot of utility.
Play what makes you happy. In the end you are the one paying for your subscription. I wanted a shaman with a small charge stun so I made a HM tauren that flails beer steins around.
11/01/2018 01:58 PMPosted by Shalira
10/31/2018 03:27 PMPosted by Kelgar
play a better class shamans are in the worst state i have ever seen them in.

You're a FOTM re-roller, your opinion doesn't mean anything.


really?i have about the same ilvl as you and i dont raid what does that say about you.

kelgar.

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