I’m 355ilvl...

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10/28/2018 03:16 PMPosted by Shadows
10/28/2018 03:03 PMPosted by Paeldryth
Why do harder content you have zero interest in doing indeed.


Why do harder content when the rewards are exactly the same.


Uh, because they're not? As evidenced by the ilvls of the folks doing the harder content.
10/28/2018 03:18 PMPosted by Truthspeaker
10/28/2018 03:16 PMPosted by Shadows
...

Why do harder content when the rewards are exactly the same.


Uh, because they're not? As evidenced by the ilvls of the folks doing the harder content.


Again, normal Uldir drops 355 gear. I can get that doing a couple WQs or BGs.
OP, what exactly are you gearing up for if you aren't planning on running content that requires gearing up for? I keep seeing you refer to gear as a reward for 'doing nothing'. Gear is not a reward, it is simply a means to an end. Beating difficult challenges and earning the associated achievement is the reward. If you are not wanting to do this, why bother with gear?
10/28/2018 03:20 PMPosted by Shadows
Again, normal Uldir drops 355 gear. I can get that doing a couple WQs or BGs.


So it's bad that there are multiple methods of getting basic, low level, starter raid gear? I don't understand your point. If that's all you want to achieve, and have no interest in trying to get better gear, why does it matter how you get that gear? You're still not going to be on par with the folks doing the harder, more competitive content. Nothing wrong with that; as I said, that's the level I play. I just don't get why it's a big deal. *shrug*

Edited to add: I can't speak for BGs, but as far as world quests are concerned, to get a 355, you have to wait for the right emissary quest to be available, do those 3-4 quests and then you'll need to be pretty close to overall ilvl 355 anyway to get offered the 355 reward. I only started getting 355 emissary rewards when this character hit 351. It's more time consuming than you're implying, which is why the folks doing the harder content will hit that ilvl faster and then exceed it.
10/28/2018 03:21 PMPosted by Lightwood
OP, what exactly are you gearing up for if you aren't planning on running content that requires gearing up for? I keep seeing you refer to gear as a reward for 'doing nothing'. Gear is not a reward, it is simply a means to an end. Beating difficult challenges and earning the associated achievement is the reward. If you are not wanting to do this, why bother with gear?


Warmode shenanigans.
10/28/2018 03:27 PMPosted by Shadows
10/28/2018 03:21 PMPosted by Lightwood
OP, what exactly are you gearing up for if you aren't planning on running content that requires gearing up for? I keep seeing you refer to gear as a reward for 'doing nothing'. Gear is not a reward, it is simply a means to an end. Beating difficult challenges and earning the associated achievement is the reward. If you are not wanting to do this, why bother with gear?


Warmode shenanigans.
Okay, so you're complaining that you've been given a gearing path that doesn't involve hardmode PVE when all you care about is PVP? JFC, Blizzard can never do anything right it seems...
10/28/2018 03:20 PMPosted by Shadows
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Uh, because they're not? As evidenced by the ilvls of the folks doing the harder content.


Again, normal Uldir drops 355 gear. I can get that doing a couple WQs or BGs.


You speak of normal Uldir as dropping only 355 gear, but just like your WQs and BGs have a chance of giving much higher Ilvl, normal Uldir does too. The difference is that it caps out in the 380s
...

Again, normal Uldir drops 355 gear. I can get that doing a couple WQs or BGs.


You speak of normal Uldir as dropping only 355 gear, but just like your WQs and BGs have a chance of giving much higher Ilvl, normal Uldir does too. The difference is that it caps out in the 380s


I got a 385 bracer from a Warfront quest. That is mythic Uldir level. No need to push progression raiding when I can get the same rewards AFKing Warfronts.
10/28/2018 04:55 PMPosted by Shadows
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You speak of normal Uldir as dropping only 355 gear, but just like your WQs and BGs have a chance of giving much higher Ilvl, normal Uldir does too. The difference is that it caps out in the 380s


I got a 385 bracer from a Warfront quest. That is mythic Uldir level. No need to push progression raiding when I can get the same rewards AFKing Warfronts.


Right....and those 385s are horribly stated for you, because they're heavy in verse.
Which has a low baseline value for Sub Rogue. That's the point a lot of people are getting at here. You have a high ilvl, but the value of those items are significantly lower than an item from a separate source. You have one piece that is ideal for your spec, but the rest is just a hodgepodge of stats, most of which is verse.

So again, congrats. You have a fairly high ilvl, but you'll still probably lose to a person with less gear but better optimization.
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I got a 385 bracer from a Warfront quest. That is mythic Uldir level. No need to push progression raiding when I can get the same rewards AFKing Warfronts.


Right....and those 385s are horribly stated for you, because they're heavy in verse.
Which has a low baseline value for Sub Rogue. That's the point a lot of people are getting at here. You have a high ilvl, but the value of those items are significantly lower than an item from a separate source. You have one piece that is ideal for your spec, but the rest is just a hodgepodge of stats, most of which is verse.

So again, congrats. You have a fairly high ilvl, but you'll still probably lose to a person with less gear but better optimization.


https://www.wowhead.com/subtlety-rogue-stat-priority-guide

About the Author
This guide is written and maintained by Mystler, an active Rogue theorycrafter who is also a developer on SimulationCraft, HeroDamage, and HeroRotation. You can find him on the Ravenholdt Discord Server, Twitter, and sometimes streaming on Twitch.

Subtlety Rogue Stats
Battle for Azeroth brings many differences as far as stats go. In BFA, thanks to the stat and item level squish items will have a smaller amount of attributes overall on them, plus there are less secondary stats available in BFA as compared to Legion.

Agility is the most important stat, so you are generally safe to equip the highest item level you can get in all slots except rings. In Battle for Azeroth, the values of our secondary stats are quite close, so stat priority can be different and change from time to time for your character.

As a generally recommended secondary stat priority for single target fights, you can use:

Critical Strike ~= Versatility > Haste > Mastery

Against multiple enemies, finisher damage becomes a lot more important so Mastery will become our best secondary stat by far whereas Haste is worth less:

Mastery > Critical Strike > Versatility > Haste

Overall, Crit and Versatility are very good as they are valuable in all situations. However, if you want to maximize in AoE situations (e.g. for dungeons or Mythic Zul), you should try to maximize Mastery and avoid Haste.
Critical Strike: Chance to deal double damage with your attacks.
Haste: Increases attack speed, energy regeneration and Nightblade tick rate.
Mastery: Increases the damage of your finishers.
Versatility: Increases all damage done and reduces damage taken.
You know 355 is pretty average. Hell below average. Sounds like it's working as intended to me...
10/28/2018 05:18 PMPosted by Shadows
...

Right....and those 385s are horribly stated for you, because they're heavy in verse.
Which has a low baseline value for Sub Rogue. That's the point a lot of people are getting at here. You have a high ilvl, but the value of those items are significantly lower than an item from a separate source. You have one piece that is ideal for your spec, but the rest is just a hodgepodge of stats, most of which is verse.

So again, congrats. You have a fairly high ilvl, but you'll still probably lose to a person with less gear but better optimization.


https://www.wowhead.com/subtlety-rogue-stat-priority-guide

About the Author
This guide is written and maintained by Mystler, an active Rogue theorycrafter who is also a developer on SimulationCraft, HeroDamage, and HeroRotation. You can find him on the Ravenholdt Discord Server, Twitter, and sometimes streaming on Twitch.

Subtlety Rogue Stats
Battle for Azeroth brings many differences as far as stats go. In BFA, thanks to the stat and item level squish items will have a smaller amount of attributes overall on them, plus there are less secondary stats available in BFA as compared to Legion.

Agility is the most important stat, so you are generally safe to equip the highest item level you can get in all slots except rings. In Battle for Azeroth, the values of our secondary stats are quite close, so stat priority can be different and change from time to time for your character.

As a generally recommended secondary stat priority for single target fights, you can use:

Critical Strike ~= Versatility > Haste > Mastery

Against multiple enemies, finisher damage becomes a lot more important so Mastery will become our best secondary stat by far whereas Haste is worth less:

Mastery > Critical Strike > Versatility > Haste

Overall, Crit and Versatility are very good as they are valuable in all situations. However, if you want to maximize in AoE situations (e.g. for dungeons or Mythic Zul), you should try to maximize Mastery and avoid Haste.
Critical Strike: Chance to deal double damage with your attacks.
Haste: Increases attack speed, energy regeneration and Nightblade tick rate.
Mastery: Increases the damage of your finishers.
Versatility: Increases all damage done and reduces damage taken.


2 things, one you're copying off of a theorycrafter, not a cutting edge mythic raider. These guys tend to know how the abilities work and how the math works, but can't quite put it into practice at the same level as a cutting edge raider who might put more emphasis on one stat over another despite simming differences.

2) https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bMZqqyRXWEk4LJvj5ZsfM5

Those are your stat weights for a single target encounter.

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rLkgGt9kpTTfqFjdwhKFBB
Those are your stat weights for a council fight encounter.

You'll notice that you're in desperate need of haste and you're over saturated with Crit and that at 3 targets+ your crit and verse combination gear is the worse thing you can possibly wear.
...

https://www.wowhead.com/subtlety-rogue-stat-priority-guide

...


2 things, one you're copying off of a theorycrafter, not a cutting edge mythic raider. These guys tend to know how the abilities work and how the math works, but can't quite put it into practice at the same level as a cutting edge raider who might put more emphasis on one stat over another despite simming differences.

2) https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bMZqqyRXWEk4LJvj5ZsfM5

Those are your stat weights for a single target encounter.

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rLkgGt9kpTTfqFjdwhKFBB
Those are your stat weights for a council fight encounter.

You'll notice that you're in desperate need of haste and you're over saturated with Crit and that at 3 targets+ your crit and verse combination gear is the worse thing you can possibly wear.


But I'm not even doing normal yet alone mythic, so these points are largely irrelevant.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

2 things, one you're copying off of a theorycrafter, not a cutting edge mythic raider. These guys tend to know how the abilities work and how the math works, but can't quite put it into practice at the same level as a cutting edge raider who might put more emphasis on one stat over another despite simming differences.

2) https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bMZqqyRXWEk4LJvj5ZsfM5

Those are your stat weights for a single target encounter.

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rLkgGt9kpTTfqFjdwhKFBB
Those are your stat weights for a council fight encounter.

You'll notice that you're in desperate need of haste and you're over saturated with Crit and that at 3 targets+ your crit and verse combination gear is the worse thing you can possibly wear.


But I'm not even doing normal yet alone mythic, so these points are largely irrelevant.


They're not irrelevant. You asked why bother doing content that you already match in average ilvl, I gave you a reason, because the stat combination of a specific piece of gear from Uldir or a M+ dungeon of the same ilvl would be an overrall dps increase over your current gear.

Don't sit here and try and change the reason for the debate in the first place mate.
...

But I'm not even doing normal yet alone mythic, so these points are largely irrelevant.


They're not irrelevant. You asked why bother doing content that you already match in average ilvl, I gave you a reason, because the stat combination of a specific piece of gear from Uldir or a M+ dungeon of the same ilvl would be an overrall dps increase over your current gear.

Don't sit here and try and reason for the debate in the first place mate.


Why would I need better optimized gear for content I'm not doing to begin with?
10/28/2018 04:56 AMPosted by Shadows
...despite having never done any raiding, mythic dungeons, or rated BGs/arenas. Is this working as intended? Why do harder content when I can spam random BGs and Warfronts for the same rewards?


Nothing to brag about but that really bothers me since I have won 15 Rated BGS so far and have the same item level as you. WOW just WOW!
10/28/2018 06:13 PMPosted by Shadows
...

They're not irrelevant. You asked why bother doing content that you already match in average ilvl, I gave you a reason, because the stat combination of a specific piece of gear from Uldir or a M+ dungeon of the same ilvl would be an overrall dps increase over your current gear.

Don't sit here and try and reason for the debate in the first place mate.


Why would I need better optimized gear for content I'm not doing to begin with?
I guess you don’t, so what’s even really the discussion?
10/28/2018 06:19 AMPosted by Vaniira
10/28/2018 05:04 AMPosted by Heaces
...and yet your profile says LFR 6/8. Hmmm... LFR... Looking For Raid... For Raid... Raid.

While I understand what you’re saying, I don’t think I’d say LFR is raiding/content when you can literally go in, auto attack and AFK.

If you have chosen to abuse the trust of your fellow players in that way, no doubt it's a way of life for you, and you do it with your friends and co-workers in real life as well as people you do your SRS content with.

Gratz! You beat the system by getting free carries from people you were pretending were your friends.
10/28/2018 06:13 PMPosted by Shadows
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They're not irrelevant. You asked why bother doing content that you already match in average ilvl, I gave you a reason, because the stat combination of a specific piece of gear from Uldir or a M+ dungeon of the same ilvl would be an overrall dps increase over your current gear.

Don't sit here and try and reason for the debate in the first place mate.


Why would I need better optimized gear for content I'm not doing to begin with?


Your argument for not doing them was because you wouldn't get an upgrade, its listed in your first post.

"Why do harder content when I can spam random BGs and Warfronts for the same rewards?"

and you continued to post this as your stance throughout the thread

"This is my point. 355 is normal Uldir. I have several 370+ pieces which is equivalent to heroic Uldir. Why bother doing normal and heroic raiding?"

I've given you a reason to do something for a similar ilvl item. Because you can't get a haste verse version of the Pvp legs, but you can get one from a +4 Tol Dagor or King's Rest.

This isn't even touching the surface on things like Trinkets, Rings and weapons, all of which you're in sore need of.
10/28/2018 06:15 PMPosted by Stryper
10/28/2018 04:56 AMPosted by Shadows
...despite having never done any raiding, mythic dungeons, or rated BGs/arenas. Is this working as intended? Why do harder content when I can spam random BGs and Warfronts for the same rewards?


Nothing to brag about but that really bothers me since I have won 15 Rated BGS so far and have the same item level as you. WOW just WOW!


You are the 2nd person to post this in this thread.

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