Neutral Factions Taking Sides

Story Forum
With everything going on in the war between the Horde and Alliance, it seems like a terrible waste to have these Neutral Factions sitting to the side and doing nothing.

For example, Sylvanas is basically LK 2.0 and has spent a lot of time rezzing the undead for her armies and plaguing/destroying healthy lands and nature. It seems so absurd that quite literally neighboring her in the next zone in WPL is the Argent Dawn and the Cenarion Circle whose sole purpose is to quell the remnants of the Lich Kings scourge and to restore the land because of both Fel and Scourge corruption.

Now I'm not trying to totally one side this as Saurfang seems to be seeking out Thrall (Possibly) and if so, the Earthen Ring would surely follow Thrall. I feel there's a major dynamic being missed out by letting them sit by while the house burns down and 'everything is fine' while, at least as far as Sylvanas goes, is doing the exact thing they formed and swore to fight against...

Alliance:

Argent Dawn
Cenarion Circle/Ashtongue Deathsworn (as an alternative due to Druids(brought in by Velen)
Kirin Tor

Horde:

Earthen Ring
Steamwheedle Cartel (Could be brought in by Gallywix)/Ogres (Not sure which are friendly with Horde atm, but an alternative to such a large entity)
Thrallmar

Just a few options I thought of, I know many Druids will automatically dislike my suggestion of Cenarion Circle, but with Malfurion fully invested in the war, would Hamuul be able to dissuade the Circle from opposing him in that he's justified for waging such a fierce war?
How is the Horde's primary base in Outland a neutral party?
I'm of two sides about this. On one hand, a world wholly colored blue and red intrigues me in terms of what Azeroth would look like if it was just two great superpowers only opposed by each other. On the other hand, I prefer neutrality in many factions, as their parity towards our squabbles is part of what makes them intriguing. Suramar joining the Horde hurt for this reason.
How many people does the Argent Crusade even have anymore, what with the whole, 'First unto the Beaches' thing at the Broken Shore.
It has plenty of people, but half of them are Horde.

The Argents are not a nation, they're a volunteer group made up of members of different nations. They could not join the Alliance without first conducting a total purge of anyone who might object to fighting their friends and family.

Which might actually be an interesting thing to see, but "positive" organizations like the Argents aren't allowed to have meaningful internal conflict.
11/11/2018 09:43 PMPosted by Solythn
How is the Horde's primary base in Outland a neutral party?


They haven't been a neutral party since Alliance 70s began slaughtering innocent questers just trying to get flying. If I will not have my retribution I will tear it from Blizzard's cavernous, wretched carcass.
11/11/2018 10:00 PMPosted by Vozul
11/11/2018 09:43 PMPosted by Solythn
How is the Horde's primary base in Outland a neutral party?


They haven't been a neutral party since Alliance 70s began slaughtering innocent questers just trying to get flying. If I will not have my retribution I will tear it from Blizzard's cavernous, wretched carcass.
Those in glass houses should not cast stones. I can't count the number of times I have seen entire raid groups of Horde camping quest hubs.
The more neutral factions we have joining sides; the more lazy writing we'll need to get them there.
11/11/2018 09:41 PMPosted by Zenretsu
Steamwheedle Cartel (Could be brought in by Gallywix)
The Steamwheedle Cartel will remain neutral most likely. They've shown in Cataclysm that they do enjoy getting both Horde and Alliance gold, and I doubt Booty Bay would stand for long if the navy came by.
11/11/2018 10:23 PMPosted by Jerolan
and I doubt Booty Bay would stand for long if the navy came by.


Alliance should just take that !@#$ for no reason other than it'd be funny to come in and end the goblins fun and put another port city under Alliance control.
11/11/2018 10:23 PMPosted by Jerolan
11/11/2018 09:41 PMPosted by Zenretsu
Steamwheedle Cartel (Could be brought in by Gallywix)
The Steamwheedle Cartel will remain neutral most likely. They've shown in Cataclysm that they do enjoy getting both Horde and Alliance gold, and I doubt Booty Bay would stand for long if the navy came by.
According to some of the mission table missions, they've already started backing the Horde under the table. No pun intended.
11/11/2018 10:27 PMPosted by Bargrand
11/11/2018 10:23 PMPosted by Jerolan
...The Steamwheedle Cartel will remain neutral most likely. They've shown in Cataclysm that they do enjoy getting both Horde and Alliance gold, and I doubt Booty Bay would stand for long if the navy came by.
According to some of the mission table missions, they've already started backing the Horde under the table. No pun intended.
Yeah, they do that. They're probably helping the Alliance too because goblins like gold. Just like they were in Cataclysm.
While I understand and appreciate why something like this would happen, i think it might make a lot of problems worse in the story.

People who are fans of a certain class and have their primary order join the opposite faction would have problems, for instance, another problem is that with the horde being framed pretty significantly as the villains of this war, if factions joined a side almost every faction the player has worked with in the past would end up joining the alliance if they got involved. As bad as the villain bat feels now, it would be even worse if this happened.

It would also create a lot of situations like what happened with Dalaran, where they joined the war and then it was kinda just tossed aside as a plot point once they were needed to be neutral again.
I really don't like the idea of neutral factions choosing a side. The Kirin Tor constantly flip flopping between neutral and Alliance every other expansion was obnoxious for both sides. Most of these groups still serve an important purpose just not in a story based primarily around the faction conflict.

Yes it means they sometimes just end up sitting there while the blue idiots and red idiots go at it, but better that than forfeiting neutrality and buying into the Alliance Vs. Horde partisan crap. The stuff with the Mag'har recruitment scenario was bad enough.

Maybe you could argue that specific instance as Anachronos being ignorant of the war or that he would have done the same had the Alliance shown up and asked to go to Draenor and recruit the Draenei, but having one of the most prominent members of the bronze dragonflight assist one faction in recruiting soldiers for the sole purpose of aiding them in the war against the opposing faction really rubbed me the wrong way.

Let the neutrals stay neutral. >:|
11/11/2018 11:02 PMPosted by Miraji
I really don't like the idea of neutral factions choosing a side. The Kirin Tor constantly flip flopping between neutral and Alliance every other expansion was obnoxious for both sides. Most of these groups still serve an important purpose just not in a story based primarily around the faction conflict.

Yes it means they sometimes just end up sitting there while the blue idiots and red idiots go at it, but better that than forfeiting neutrality and buying into the Alliance Vs. Horde partisan crap. The stuff with the Mag'har recruitment scenario was bad enough.

Maybe you could argue that specific instance as Anachronos being ignorant of the war or that he would have done the same had the Alliance shown up and asked to go to Draenor and recruit the Draenei, but having one of the most prominent members of the bronze dragonflight assist one faction in recruiting soldiers for the sole purpose of aiding them in the war against the opposing faction really rubbed me the wrong way.

Let the neutrals stay neutral. >:|


Why should they stay neutral, when plenty of alliance characters are now being raised as horde characters?

It's time to stop treating the Horde with baby-gloves and just face the facts. The neutral factions cannot be a neutral party, when the leader of the Horde makes themselves an enemy of life.
11/12/2018 12:31 AMPosted by Valuelle
The neutral factions cannot be a neutral party, when the leader of the Horde makes themselves an enemy of life.
That's more an issue of deposing Sylvanas rather than joining a faction. The Shado-Pan stood against Garrosh, but they didn't outright join the Alliance.
11/12/2018 12:49 AMPosted by Grandblade
11/12/2018 12:31 AMPosted by Valuelle
The neutral factions cannot be a neutral party, when the leader of the Horde makes themselves an enemy of life.
That's more an issue of deposing Sylvanas rather than joining a faction. The Shado-Pan stood against Garrosh, but they didn't outright join the Alliance.


Sylvanas is being supported by her many subordinates. They have already committed actions against life and have destroyed a world tree blessed by the Aspect of LIFE. It is clear to all that this is similar, if not worse, then some of the most abhorrent of Azeroth's foes. How is this any worse then what Ragnaros, Arthas, or Deathwing have done?

One needs to only look at the nuremberg trials for a real life analogy. The entire state was found to be in contempt of its crimes, and despite being its own nation, it was torn down to form something less problematic. The same must be down for the Horde and its entire command apparatus charged for war crimes.
Not to be too harsh, but what you are proposing would not work in a game like this Valuelle, unless you expect most horde fans to just give up and quit, lol.
Valuelle, I can't tell if you're serious comparing the Horde to the third reich and saying the faction needs to be torn down and charged with war crimes, but blizzard can't really do any of that so long as WoW remains a two faction game.

It's why the faction conflict can never have a truly satisfying conclusion for either side because when all is said and done both Alliance and Horde players need to have a faction that they feel proud of and enjoy playing as.

You can't just have one faction crush the other and turn them into a diminished vassal state. Might as well just tell the people who play the losing side to faction change or unsubscribe.

Blizzard has definitely written themselves into a corner by continuing to villain bat Sylv and worse by making the rest of the Horde complicit in her actions, but I don't think having all the neutral factions hop aboard the war train and team up against them is going to make this train wreck of a story any better.
11/12/2018 03:17 AMPosted by Miraji
the faction needs to be torn down and charged with war crimes, but blizzard can't really do any of that so long as WoW remains a two faction game.


I don't think it'll come to that, but if what I believe is to happen and Thrall does return (again) then the Horde will wash their hands of Sylvanas and do as they did Garrosh.

Anduin will eventually respect his decision and perhaps either Thrall will remain or Saurfang will be appointed as Warchief. Either way, even adding neutral factions wouldn't split the Horde. It would just be there until Sylvanas is dealt with.

11/11/2018 09:43 PMPosted by Solythn
How is the Horde's primary base in Outland a neutral party?


I don't know, they haven't done anything for quite a long time D:

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