Neutral Factions Taking Sides

Story Forum
I dont think the neutral factions know enough to take sides in the faction war.
The conclave even helped start the faction war by botching the peace summit. Taking a side would male them look really bad.
The Argent Crusaders probably dont have enough reliable information to take a side in the war.
The CC and ER probably have their hands full trying to heal the damage to the planet.
I'd imagine by now, the Kirin Tor have given up on the Alliance and horde.
Turning the entire world Horde and Alliance with nothing else is terrible for the setting. It makes everything feel small and fake if the entire world belongs to one of two groups and there's no in between. It doesn't feel like a real world at that point.

Not to mention groups like the CC and ER are focused on healing the planet that is literally bleeding to death, which should be everyone's main priority but for some absurd reason almost no one is acknowledging.
11/12/2018 06:54 AMPosted by Reignac
Not to mention groups like the CC and ER are focused on healing the planet that is literally bleeding to death, which should be everyone's main priority but for some absurd reason almost no one is acknowledging.


Oh we're healing 'woons' alright, but seeing something like the Argent Dawn hanging out next to ICC 2.0, even though it was eliminated, is ridiculous.

At the very least they should get involved in some degree with what's going on.
I mean, I don't understand how the Cenarian Circle can get behind the Horde after the Burning for Teldrassil. Hamuul Runetotem should be furious.
11/12/2018 06:54 AMPosted by Reignac
Turning the entire world Horde and Alliance with nothing else is terrible for the setting. It makes everything feel small and fake if the entire world belongs to one of two groups and there's no in between. It doesn't feel like a real world at that point.

Not to mention groups like the CC and ER are focused on healing the planet that is literally bleeding to death, which should be everyone's main priority but for some absurd reason almost no one is acknowledging.


Neutrals are fine when the Horde aren’t being mass murdering maniacs. Neutrals are dumb when they are.
11/12/2018 11:33 AMPosted by Arlifrex
Neutrals are fine when the Horde aren’t being mass murdering maniacs. Neutrals are dumb when they are.


The neutrals aren't the dumb part. The dumb part is having the Horde story be where it is in the first place.
11/12/2018 11:38 AMPosted by Balloonfish
11/12/2018 11:33 AMPosted by Arlifrex
Neutrals are fine when the Horde aren’t being mass murdering maniacs. Neutrals are dumb when they are.


The neutrals aren't the dumb part. The dumb part is having the Horde story be where it is in the first place.


True, but not having the neutrals respond to what the Horde does is also dumb.
11/12/2018 02:09 AMPosted by Valuelle

One needs to only look at the nuremberg trials for a real life analogy. The entire state was found to be in contempt of its crimes, and despite being its own nation, it was torn down to form something less problematic. The same must be down for the Horde and its entire command apparatus charged for war crimes.


The Nuremberg trials were the losers being tried, convicted, and executed by the victors. Until this war is settled, we don't have losers and victors yet. No one outside the Alliance cared two figs about Teldrassil, and even Malfurion said that it's creation was a mistake.
I think it’s more likely that Sylvanas will get kicked out by Saurfang, and she will take her loyalists and those she rose from the dead with her to Northrend. She’ll try and usurp Bolvar to get more control over the undead and make a bigger army for herself. Third faction will be The Scourge, and everyone who reached level 121 has the option to leave the Alliance or Horde and die during a big battle and be raised as undead in order to join the new faction. Their character will look all rotten and dead (Except Forsaken which will look unchanged). The Death Knights side with Bolvar against Sylvanas, unless the player joins Sylvanas. Nathanos becomes the new Horde Forsaken racial leader.

But that’s just me.
11/12/2018 01:00 PMPosted by Arlifrex
11/12/2018 11:38 AMPosted by Balloonfish
...

The neutrals aren't the dumb part. The dumb part is having the Horde story be where it is in the first place.


True, but not having the neutrals respond to what the Horde does is also dumb.


Presumably the reason they aren't responding is that the case can be made for the Class oriented ones being disbanded by the mass desertion of their members to the faction war.
I'll allow it, but only if the Council of the Black Harvest joins the Horde. If the Alliance gets exclusive use of the Druid and Paladin factions then the Horde should get exclusive access to the Shaman and Warlock factions.
11/12/2018 06:12 PMPosted by Mustakraken
I'll allow it, but only if the Council of the Black Harvest joins the Horde. If the Alliance gets exclusive use of the Druid and Paladin factions then the Horde should get exclusive access to the Shaman and Warlock factions.


Initially that is what they were really known for, especially if you get down to the roots of where both came from.

The only real argument that can be made is the Druids. But according to both sides lore, they state they were of the first, however Malfurion is specifically known to be Cenarius first disciple and the first known druid.
The basic answer is that every Neutral Party of value already has an Option C to opt out of the faction conflict, by joining Magni and the Champions of Azeroth to focus on saving the planet first.
The Ebon Blade will probably side against Sylvanas. They have not forgotten Koltira's long torture at her hands, and even the Developer Q and A say that they are carefully watching her as she becomes more and more similar to Arthas.

Some people say that they dislike being forced to choose between Horde and Alliance. But personally, I find "neutral" characters and factions sometimes even more wearisome. The entirety of Legion was about neutral factions, and yet, was it sustainable beyond the war?
11/12/2018 11:33 AMPosted by Arlifrex
Neutrals are fine when the Horde aren’t being mass murdering maniacs. Neutrals are dumb when they are.

Not when they have an even higher priority, namely the survival of the World Soul. Neglecting that in order to get involved in a faction war would mean getting distracted from ensuring long-term survival to settle a short-term grievance.

(And also, what Balloonfish said.)
If any neutral factions joined the fray, they’d side with the Alliance. Most stand for some kind of just cause, right?

Sylvanas is the Lich Queen. She’s evil. Factions would unite against her. Also, under her, Gallywix is mining the frick outta Azerite, which upsets the elements, apparently. The Earthen Ring would never side with her.
I absolutely loathe this game's narrative being framed by playable factions and hampered by the need to maintain status quo. It gives us garbage like this. Hamuul and Malfurion stood side by side when Fandral did far less than Sylvanas to harm the world. There is no practical difference from an in-world perspective. Sylvanas has gone as rogue as Fandral did, if you happen to be a person in this world who wants to be alive, or supports life.
11/13/2018 07:33 PMPosted by Serevèn
I absolutely loathe this game's narrative being framed by playable factions and hampered by the need to maintain status quo. It gives us garbage like this. Hamuul and Malfurion stood side by side when Fandral did far less than Sylvanas to harm the world. There is no practical difference from an in-world perspective. Sylvanas has gone as rogue as Fandral did, if you happen to be a person in this world who wants to be alive, or supports life.


Fandral was technically one of their own (their being the Cenarian Circle) gone off the reservation so Malfurion and Hamuul had shared responsibility for dealing with him. (It mostly wound up being Malfurion after Fandral took the Tauren out of the picture by nearly roasting him alive.) Fandral's treason involved threathening the world in total so both factions had an interest in stopping him.

Now it's faction vs faction so Malfurion has gone into guerilla mode against the Horde, pretty much abandoning the Cenarian Circle while Runetotem has apparantly elected to work with Magni Bronzebeard's Champions of Azeroth.

And playable antagonistic factions is the core concept of this game... has been since Day 1, so expecting Blizzard to abandon a working formula has a low chance of getting anywhere.
One of the underlying issues with having the neutral factions take sides is that, aside from the Earthen Ring and maybe the Steamwheedle Cartel, they mostly lean Alliance. The numbers don't work out to have it be a fair fight (in a faction balance sense).
11/13/2018 08:48 PMPosted by Drahliana
11/13/2018 07:33 PMPosted by Serevèn
I absolutely loathe this game's narrative being framed by playable factions and hampered by the need to maintain status quo. It gives us garbage like this. Hamuul and Malfurion stood side by side when Fandral did far less than Sylvanas to harm the world. There is no practical difference from an in-world perspective. Sylvanas has gone as rogue as Fandral did, if you happen to be a person in this world who wants to be alive, or supports life.


Fandral was technically one of their own (their being the Cenarian Circle) gone off the reservation so Malfurion and Hamuul had shared responsibility for dealing with him. (It mostly wound up being Malfurion after Fandral took the Tauren out of the picture by nearly roasting him alive.) Fandral's treason involved threathening the world in total so both factions had an interest in stopping him.

Now it's faction vs faction so Malfurion has gone into guerilla mode against the Horde, pretty much abandoning the Cenarian Circle while Runetotem has apparantly elected to work with Magni Bronzebeard's Champions of Azeroth.

And playable antagonistic factions is the core concept of this game... has been since Day 1, so expecting Blizzard to abandon a working formula has a low chance of getting anywhere.
True, true. Druids are notorious for turning a blind eye against people who blight land, bring corruption and death to wildlife, attempt genocide, disrupt balance, try to murder the first druid, pose themselves as enemies of life and hope, etc if their leader hasn't been "One of their own."

I feel like you grossly misinterpreted what it is I want to say here and it is probably my fault for conveying it poorly. So allow me to try again. The notion of faction vs faction in world is a nonsensical one. It is an artificial mechanic that exists solely outside their world. Monsters who have done far less than Sylvanas have been recognized and put down far quicker by "neutral factions" before.

And this game was originally framed as an ensemble story where factions actually worked well. Because it was smaller scale and nobody was doing crap against life that would make Nefarion blush.

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