BEs are HEs

General Discussion
Supposedly High Elves were planned to be in the Alliance before the launch of Vanilla, but Gnomes beat them out. Blood Elves were then supposedly given to the Horde in TBC to help with population issues, as the Alliance easily dominated the Horde in terms of numbers. This is just stuff that I've heard though, I won't pretend that they're 100% confirmed facts

If so then I understand why Blood Elves were given to the Horde. It wasn't too much of a stretch in terms of lore, and Lord knows it solved the population imbalance

Also, I'd recommend avoid creating posts involving High Elves in the future, the GD is sick of seeing multiple threads about them
11/15/2018 04:49 AMPosted by Mardrigala
Let's be honest. Realistically there wasn't a good reason for Blood Elves to join the Horde rather than wait for a response from Stormwind for help.


So, with 90% of their race butchered, the Sunwell destroyed by Arthus, Silvermoon overrun by the Scourge, you say they should have waited? Waited for a response from Stormwind?

I imagine, when the prospect of seeing another day alive seems very unlikely under that onslaught, the last thing they had was time to wait. Their choice was stark. Get aid from anyone who was willing to help or face certain death.

If you really want to be realistic and honest, avoiding certain death isn't just a good reason, it's the best reason.
Blood Elves being Horde was fine. It was a good subversion of fantasy tropes and helped to make the Horde more diverse in terms of race fantasy. The issue is that now that Blizz is trading model swaps and giving Horde Night Elves, there's no justifiable reason for Alliance to not have High Elves. Even giving Void Elves 'forms' like Worgen would be acceptable, Alleria has this same ability to swap between her Void and non-Void form.

There are arguments about readability and whatnot but that falls flat for me for two reasons. For one, Void Elves already use the model and animation. On a BG if you removed the UI and put a VE next to a BE I wouldn't be able to tell the difference from a distance. The other is due to the UI: if the name is red it's an enemy, I don't need to even look at the model.

To not give Alliance High Elves, something they've wanted since the very beginning of the game, is just plain spiteful.
11/15/2018 05:16 AMPosted by Lorithyn
Blood Elves were then supposedly given to the Horde in TBC to help with population issues, as the Alliance easily dominated the Horde in terms of numbers. This is just stuff that I've heard though, I won't pretend that they're 100% confirmed facts


This was confirmed by Metzen in a developer interview. The blood elves were, as they put it, an intended bandaid for the Horde to stop the bleeding.
People blame Garithos
> Garithos was from Lordaeron
> Forsaken are Lordaeron
> Blame Stormwind humans

Does not compute.

Blood Elves were attacked for millenia by trolls, were invaded by orcs on multiple occasions, and were almost wiped out by the undead.

Yet they join the very faction that contains all these people.

Why? Obviously because they aren't the same, yet people feel quite compelled to equivocate Garithos of Lordaeron to the current Alliance because they both have/are humans?

Blood Elves joining the Horde was a massive lore fail, as are the Draenei.

Fortunately the passing of time has retroactively "fixed" the issues, but even Blizzard avoids talking about it now. The most recent Chronicles had it outright say that the Blood Elves felt unworthy in the Alliance. The history of the Draenei has been remarkably well developed but it took a lot of effort.

Unfortunately the fallout continues to this day, with Blood Elves barely ever appearing in any content (their absence from cinematics is almost a meme) and Blizzard putting High Elves on the Alliance in order to give them a reasonable antagonist on the Alliance (appearing dozens of time and always to counter the Blood Elves).... and then bringing out Void Elves out of nowhere because god forbid there be another natural skin toned elf in the game in a sea of purple elves.

What ever happened to the Broken of Outland?
Will we see any more developments on High Elves?

Hell if we know, and as someone who has played this game for over two decades, it's disappointing, especially when it appears that the Alliance races are being designed around the Horde, whether it is to make them more appealing (Blood Elves and thus creating Draenei) or giving them a race literally appropriating Alliance history (Nightborne) while giving false parity in purple elves 4.0 with zero history and lore backing.
Void elfs are peak elf perfection.

You may not like it but this is the rules.
11/15/2018 05:19 AMPosted by Avangaline
So, with 90% of their race butchered, the Sunwell destroyed by Arthus, Silvermoon overrun by the Scourge, you say they should have waited? Waited for a response from Stormwind?


The burning of Teldrassil is nothing more than absolute proof that had the blood elves waited for aid from Stormwind, they'd have died out from lack of aid in the first place. Stormwind cares about nothing other than itself, and this is proven multiple times.

8.1 has more delicious evidence of it. I can't wait.
11/15/2018 02:11 AMPosted by Humanìty
But they should have been alliance. Not horde. That was a major blow by blizzard to their own lore.


Omg it’s been 12 years. Let it go.
11/15/2018 02:15 AMPosted by Vivette
Have you played WC3:TFT, let alone WC3 in general? Not to fear, WC3: Reforged is coming, highly recommend you play it.


I did. Having an entire race abandon their faction because of one person is moronic writing.

Just like they did again with the Nightborne.
Eh.... no. How else would I see the outrage of some horde players because blood elves makes almost half of their playerbase? Leave them where they belong. ò_ó
11/15/2018 02:26 AMPosted by Sevaira
11/15/2018 02:17 AMPosted by Kirela
Wouldn't it be funny if the shoe was on the other foot? All those years ago, instead of making blood elves playable, they made high elves playable and then where would we be in the allied race era?


For many years not many people would have ever played Horde then. The balance of total players on each faction was massively in favor of the alliance throughout all of Vanilla. It took Blood Elves to even remotely bring the levels closer to even.


Yet Horde got world first on multiple occasions in vanilla
11/15/2018 05:36 AMPosted by Sunday


I did. Having an entire race abandon their faction because of one person is moronic writing.

Just like they did again with the Nightborne.


And the Void Elves.

Why didn't Lor'themar just send them to the nearby Forsaken? I'm sure Sylvanas could have put them to good use.

That exile was nonsensical and almost hypocritical from the "pragmatic and magic-crazed Blood Elves".
Another thing, it made sense for the blood elfs to join the Horde. You can’t forget the main reason the alliance happened was because of Sylvanas, the belfs were desperate,vengeancy and needed help taking their lands back. The forsaken gave it and in turn Sylvanas helped them join with her seal of approval. Not to mention despite the belfs being unsure of zombie Sylvanas they still held a lot of respect for her due to her ranger general days.

They also were in contact with the alliance, one of the earliest quests was about a dwarf alliance representative who was talking with them but was found out to be spying while night elfs made the arcane sanctums malfunction. As well as night elf camps in the ghostlands spying on them, it’s not like the Alliance actually reached out to give them help like the forsaken did.
11/15/2018 02:15 AMPosted by Vivette
Have you played WC3:TFT, let alone WC3 in general? Not to fear, WC3: Reforged is coming, highly recommend you play it.
Still no valid reason to betray the alliance they've had with humanity for 3,200 years.

"Oh no, a single racist human who's gone rogue! All humans are evil and are out to get us! Quick! Let's join the faction that, just a while ago, ransacked our forests and pillaged our villages!"
11/15/2018 02:16 AMPosted by Vivette
11/15/2018 02:15 AMPosted by Joyeuse
I don't think anybody's denying that.


I'm denying it.
Scratch that. Nobody with any sense of logic and/or morality is denying that.
11/15/2018 05:43 AMPosted by Jawah


"Oh no, a single racist human who's gone rogue! All humans are evil and are out to get us! Quick! Let's join the faction that, just a while ago, ransacked our forests and pillaged our villages!"


We've been attacked by Orcs, Trolls, and Undead a countless number of times.... but let's join the faction that contains those races because of one bad human who was ironically of the same faction as those Undead!!!!111!!

Even Blizzard has abandoned this cause it's so indefensibly stupid. "Felt unworthy of the Alliance" is their most recent take on it.
Pretty obvious a number of posters haven't played through Warcraft III's storyline.

Those now known as blood elves were once high elves. The transition came about during the Third War, when Prince Arthas turned his attention towards Quel'Thalas. The Scourge slew more than 90% of the high elven population, devastating their culture and leading to the renaming. Of the 10% of the high elven population that remained, 90% of them adopted the name Sin'dorei ("children of the blood") or Blood Elves. Prince Kael'thas Sunstrider was studying magic in Dalaran at the time of the disaster. He returned from his studies to find Quel'Thalas in ruins. Thirsting for vengeance, Kael'thas gathered the survivors and renamed them "blood elves" in honor of their fallen kin. Prior to the Sunwell's destruction, all high elves were constantly bathed in its magical power. Now bereft of this arcane energy, the blood elves (and high elves) suffered from their withdrawals. Kael'thas claimed that they would soon die without another magical source to replace the Sunwell. The blood elves therefore set about learning to drain magic from alternative sources.

Soon, the blood elves clashed with the Scourge and the Amani trolls, who were making inroads into former elven territory. The blood elves defended their homeland, and, eventually, having reestablished a degree of safety to their land and prevented their society from degenerating, Kael'thas left his homeland. He took a group of the strongest blood elf warriors and spell casters and joined the Alliance against the Scourge. They were eager to avenge themselves on the undead forces; however, bigotry prevented the human forces from seeing the aid the blood elves could bring to their fight. Due to those human prejudices, Kael'thas was forced to accept the assistance of the naga queen's servant, Lady Vashj, and the reptilian naga during a suicide mission commanded by Grand Marshall Garithos. When the humans discovered that the blood elves were working with the naga, they were imprisoned and sentenced to death by the racist human Grand Marshall Garithos (who had commanded the New Alliance). The blood elves who sided themselves with Kael'thas escaped with the aid of the naga, fled to Outland, and joined Illidan Stormrage's forces. This group of blood elves then helped defeat the demon Magtheridon and claimed his Black Citadel as their own.

In exchange for the blood elves' loyal service, Illidan gave them a place to live, as well as further techniques to siphon mana from anything with arcane power. Blood elves in Outland now hunt demons and feed off the demons' magic. As a consequence, despite what other races might suspect, blood elves are hardly on friendly terms with demons. Indeed, blood elves view demons with abhorrence as well. Even blood elf warlocks believe demons are useful tools, not potential allies. It should be noted that while many Blood Elves that followed Kael'thas to Outland fed upon fel energy, this was not the case for the Blood elves that remained on Azeroth that fed primarily upon mana. Not every blood elf lives in Outland and most blood elves still live in Azeroth, particularly in Quel'Thalas. These blood elves seek to reclaim their lost homeland and destroy the Scourge at any cost.[2] A lone representative, Rommath, was sent back to Azeroth with a message of hope for the blood elves remaining in Quel'Thalas: That one day Kael'thas would return to lead his people to paradise. Rommath has made great progress in teaching the blood elves advanced techniques to manipulate arcane energies. With renewed purpose, the blood elves have now rebuilt the city of Silvermoon, though it is powered by volatile magics. Emboldened by the promise of Kael'thas' return, the weary citizens of Quel'Thalas now focus on regaining their strength, even as they forge a new path into an uncertain future.[3] While they despise most other races, they have come to accept that the Forsaken are different, or at least share the same goals as the blood elves. The blood elves in Outland do not give the Alliance or the Horde much thought. They are busy seeking power and honing their abilities.[2]


The Forsaken have been working closely with the blood elves to purge the greater Plaguelands of Scourge presence since their induction. Lor'themar Theron was Sylvanas Windrunner's second in command during the Second Battle of Quel'Thalas, and many Forsaken were high elves culled from the same battle. The aid provided by the Forsaken has included reinforcements, a number of outposts in and around the reclaimed blood elf territories, and a teleportation device between the Undercity and Silvermoon.


Link: http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Blood_elf
11/15/2018 05:44 AMPosted by Jawah
Scratch that. Nobody with any sense of logic and/or morality is denying that.


There's no need for that kind of shade, although it is amusing that Forsaken fans are screaming about ideological differences within the Horde yet are apparently oblivious about those very differences elsewhere.
11/15/2018 05:46 AMPosted by Scathan


[quote]The Forsaken have been working closely with the blood elves to purge the greater Plaguelands of Scourge presence since their induction. Lor'themar Theron was Sylvanas Windrunner's second in command during the Second Battle of Quel'Thalas, and many Forsaken were high elves culled from the same battle. The aid provided by the Forsaken has included reinforcements, a number of outposts in and around the reclaimed blood elf territories, and a teleportation device between the Undercity and Silvermoon.


This is what you call post-fact justification.

It is lore created in order to make a prior decision more sensible. There were literally zero interactions between Blood Elves and Undead in Warcraft III, other than the Blood Elves being invaded and almost murdered by them while under the Scourge's thrall.

Lor'themar didn't exist. Undercity didn't exist. Humans in Lordaeron were unaccounted for.

In fact we had a very positive interaction with Night Elves, yet that was apparently brushed aside in BC.
11/15/2018 05:44 AMPosted by Mythlor
11/15/2018 05:43 AMPosted by Jawah


"Oh no, a single racist human who's gone rogue! All humans are evil and are out to get us! Quick! Let's join the faction that, just a while ago, ransacked our forests and pillaged our villages!"


We've been attacked by Orcs, Trolls, and Undead a countless number of times.... but let's join the faction that contains those races because of one bad human who was ironically of the same faction as those Undead!!!!111!!

Even Blizzard has abandoned this cause it's so indefensibly stupid. "Felt unworthy of the Alliance" is their most recent take on it.
Exactly. There's no sensible reason for the blood elves to join the Horde. The best excuse I have been able to come up with, is that the blood elves are just villains. Up until BC, every race of the Horde, except for perhaps the tauren, were considered monsters in the blood elves' eyes. For them to side with beings that they considered evil just makes them villains, even in their eyes. And this is coming right off the heels of them working alongside the likes of Illidan, Malfurion, Tyrande, and Akama. All characters that would ultimately fall in line with the Alliance, sooner or later. Sure, Maiev was a bad example, but Kael'thas saw clearly that she lied to Malfurion and that she did not speak for the whole of the night elves.

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