We need the badge system back

General Discussion
I agree that the badge system should come back, but only for welfare epics.

Here's why. The best gear should always be gated behind difficult content, which in this game translates to bosses/instances.

Now in the past people didn't like badges=welfares and raiding=real epics because not everyone raided. It wasn't a very casual or alt friendly environment. But badge gear needs to be entry level because it's guaranteed with a time sink and there is no skill gate on it. Similar to rep faction gear.

Now here is why it can work now---------- M+ and LFR exist

You can remove M+ chests and just have the gear scale up with m+ tiers on DROPS, not RNG chests. Present this alongside badge gear and rep gear, and now both casuals and raiders have multiple avenues to gain quality gear without any RNG besides good old fashioned "did the boss drop it or not". You can raid, you can do M+, but either way the best gear is held by bosses which is how it should be. The badge gear just needs to get you in the door so you can start doing those things. You'd probably also want to trash forge procs with these changes as well.
10/17/2018 01:38 PMPosted by Lindow
I agree that the badge system should come back, but only for welfare epics.

Here's why. The best gear should always be gated behind difficult content, which in this game translates to bosses/instances.

Now in the past people didn't like badges=welfares and raiding=real epics because not everyone raided. It wasn't a very casual or alt friendly environment. But badge gear needs to be entry level because it's guaranteed with a time sink and there is no skill gate on it. Similar to rep faction gear.

Now here is why it can work now---------- M+ and LFR exist

You can remove M+ chests and just have the gear scale up with m+ tiers on DROPS, not RNG chests. Present this alongside badge gear and rep gear, and now both casuals and raiders have multiple avenues to gain quality gear without any RNG besides good old fashioned "did the boss drop it or not". You can raid, you can do M+, but either way the best gear is held by bosses which is how it should be. The badge gear just needs to get you in the door so you can start doing those things. You'd probably also want to trash forge procs with these changes as well.


That's what i'm saying though, there was so much they could do with a system that worked. I don't like welfare epics like i said, but right now i cannot even convince anyone to enjoy the game anymore, and mind you this is an avenue of players that played for over 10 years.
I'm a crazy elf. No one listens to my idea's anymore. But I have been saying that one for a while. I'm glad my subconscious whisperings have hit some people... please yes, yes yes yes bring back badges.
I think badges would be a good system to fill in the gaps left by RNG. Each raid would have its own 4 badge types, 1 for each difficulty. You would be given 1 badge for each loot-eligible boss kill. The badges could then be turned in at a vendor for difficulty-appropriate gear.

They could even be themed for the raid. For example, Uldir badges could be called data clusters or something like that, and they could be turned in a synthesizer/fabricator machine in Uldir for gear.

With a separate badge type for each difficulty level, yes you would be able to buy mythic raid gear, but you would need to farm mythic badges, which you can only get by killing mythic bosses.

The items themselves would also be relatively expensive. The badge system is intended to fill the gaps left by RNG, not as a primary gearing mechanism.

This system will also have the advantage of making it so you always feel some sense of progression, even if you didn't win any loot on any given night. Say if you farmed 6 bosses, but didn't get any loot, you are still 6 badges closer to being able to buy your next piece, so it doesn't feel like you wasted your time.
We already have the craptastic gcd changes why don't we add some more weeb $h!t and call it Final Fantasy 14.
I recall the gearing via badges.. I also recall why it was removed.
Why?
Because Players complained daily about being "forced" to run "out-of-date" content (heroics/raids) just to get points to buy gear.
10/17/2018 03:07 PMPosted by Damonios
I recall the gearing via badges.. I also recall why it was removed.
Why?
Because Players complained daily about being "forced" to run "out-of-date" content (heroics/raids) just to get points to buy gear.


Now we are forced to run out of date content in hopes of warforges...how is that any better?
10/17/2018 03:07 PMPosted by Damonios
I recall the gearing via badges.. I also recall why it was removed.
Why?
Because Players complained daily about being "forced" to run "out-of-date" content (heroics/raids) just to get points to buy gear.
That can be solved by having separate badge types for each difficulty, and making it so badges only drop from raid bosses, and only on their given difficulties.
10/17/2018 03:08 PMPosted by Margirita
10/17/2018 03:07 PMPosted by Damonios
I recall the gearing via badges.. I also recall why it was removed.
Why?
Because Players complained daily about being "forced" to run "out-of-date" content (heroics/raids) just to get points to buy gear.


Now we are forced to run out of date content in hopes of warforges...how is that any better?


I did not say it was better or worse.. I just pointed out why badges were removed.

10/17/2018 03:09 PMPosted by Feronar
10/17/2018 03:07 PMPosted by Damonios
I recall the gearing via badges.. I also recall why it was removed.
Why?
Because Players complained daily about being "forced" to run "out-of-date" content (heroics/raids) just to get points to buy gear.
That can be solved by having separate badge types for each difficulty, and making it so badges only drop from raid bosses, and only on their given difficulties.


So Badge Gear is only for Raiders?
That is going to be popular on the Forums.
I like working my way to a clear goal. I don't like working and hoping I'll get lucky.
10/17/2018 03:15 PMPosted by Damonios
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Now we are forced to run out of date content in hopes of warforges...how is that any better?


I did not say it was better or worse.. I just pointed out why badges were removed.

<span class="truncated">...</span>That can be solved by having separate badge types for each difficulty, and making it so badges only drop from raid bosses, and only on their given difficulties.


So Badge Gear is only for Raiders?
That is going to be popular on the Forums.


I think badges should drop from all sorts of content, less for easier content, more for harder content. It's progression either way, I haven't really thought about pvp but this is where everyone is failing to innovate. You can change it up and do different things to accommodate the singularity of progression. Increase avenues and methods of progression.

To clarify even more. Strictly speaking for PvE mythic raiding should have it's own set of badges.
Everything else can qualify for purchasing for as high as heroic content gear. Mythic raiding gear should remain the best for anyone who actually mythic raids. The heroic badges shouldn't only drop in heroic raiding content or raiding content. World quests, mission tables, mythic dungeons, mythic+ should drop badges for as high as heroic content gear. Mythic raids should have their own exclusive badge system
tanked my first heroic uldir 2 weeks ago, dropped 2 bosses. azerite.
moved on to regular, downed 4 more bosses. azerite.

last week I didnt bother to log in on raid day. I believe I was playing marvel strike force on my phone and decided to do house chores instead....
In case blizzard missed it, I decided that I would rather do house chores than raid.
10/17/2018 03:37 AMPosted by Amine
10/17/2018 01:33 AMPosted by Dylana
We need a system in place to bring incentive back into the game. The RNG i think the general consensus of the community hates the most. It's like playing a phone game now. You shouldn't be entitled to loot, at the same time WoW has always been a game of hard work triumphs. At this point in time, after master-loot was taken away, it added a much worse level of RNG that is currently absurd.

Do you remember WOTLK's badge system? Why did we hate it? Why did we love it? I know that a lot of people hated that the purples all became pretty much well-fare and to that I agree. So instead of gutting a system that had potential to work, why not tweak it to work better?

Does anyone honestly feel that RNG is better than fixing a system that worked at one point? I'm genuinely curious, they say that the people who are fine and happy with how the system is currently working generally tend to not even mention it, if there is though can you explain why you like it?

Either way if not a badge system, the RNG factor in character progression is really bad. To some degree, everyone wants to see their character progress, I myself do not care about gear, I happily distribute whenever I can. However it's disappointing when i hear my friends quitting or losing faith in the game because they have no incentive to even play. A few of them just give up because they've completely given up on the bad luck protection system. Because even if they got gear from it, it wasn't a piece they needed anyway. This is just a tiny example, however the factor all around seems to just be this xpac's RNG is just too much.

Which is why i say there needs to be something to fix RNG.


No. We are finally getting away from forcing people to do 'x' content to gear up and this would just go back to it.

I have absolutely no problem with the current gearing system - not all that fond of azerite pieces taking up all my storage space but other than that RNG in raids and dungeons is perfectly fine with me.

If I want guaranteed something I can just go buy a piece from the Auction house.


I cant because my rng is so bad i didnt get multiple gold missions per day on every alt for the 4 years prior to bfa - as such i DO NOT have the half a million gold to buy a single item from the AH

so im stuck killing bosses for sliver of azerites...

the epic nothingness and the absolute lack of ANY gear progress for my participation in raiding (on my mage) has burned me out. The fun has drained away this is literaly the last day of my active game time. apparently next lfr tier will finally be able to fill my slots that arent above normal raid ilvl... all 8 of them
10/17/2018 01:33 AMPosted by Dylana
We need a system in place to bring incentive back into the game. The RNG i think the general consensus of the community hates the most. It's like playing a phone game now. You shouldn't be entitled to loot, at the same time WoW has always been a game of hard work triumphs. At this point in time, after master-loot was taken away, it added a much worse level of RNG that is currently absurd.

Do you remember WOTLK's badge system? Why did we hate it? Why did we love it? I know that a lot of people hated that the purples all became pretty much well-fare and to that I agree. So instead of gutting a system that had potential to work, why not tweak it to work better?

Does anyone honestly feel that RNG is better than fixing a system that worked at one point? I'm genuinely curious, they say that the people who are fine and happy with how the system is currently working generally tend to not even mention it, if there is though can you explain why you like it?

Either way if not a badge system, the RNG factor in character progression is really bad. To some degree, everyone wants to see their character progress, I myself do not care about gear, I happily distribute whenever I can. However it's disappointing when i hear my friends quitting or losing faith in the game because they have no incentive to even play. A few of them just give up because they've completely given up on the bad luck protection system. Because even if they got gear from it, it wasn't a piece they needed anyway. This is just a tiny example, however the factor all around seems to just be this xpac's RNG is just too much.

Which is why i say there needs to be something to fix RNG.

AGREE 100%

While there was always a random element to loot, there was only one: whether the targeted item would drop.

Now, it's:

will something drop at all?
can I use it?
what piece?
what stats?
what affixes?
TF or not?

FEH.

Bring back fixed loot tables so we can target farm again. And bring back badges and gear vendors and honor points (or make MoH drop 100% for wins) and PvP vendors. HELL YES

And bring back LOOT OPTIONS. PL sucks on toast.

TLDR: Bring back player agency.
10/17/2018 03:53 PMPosted by Trish
tanked my first heroic uldir 2 weeks ago, dropped 2 bosses. azerite.
moved on to regular, downed 4 more bosses. azerite.

last week I didnt bother to log in on raid day. I believe I was playing marvel strike force on my phone and decided to do house chores instead....
In case blizzard missed it, I decided that I would rather do house chores than raid.


So when the game starts dishing out more and more gear, you get posters like the above, so entitled that if they don't get a piece of loot they wanted (nevermind getting a dupe), they entirely leave their team and gang hanging the next week and quit.

Back in Vanilla/TBC you could raid for months without loot. People still came week after week.

Today, if you don't get a piece everytime you log on or if that piece is not an upgrade, then "Trash game, would rather do chores".

It seems the more loot the game gives, the less players are satisfied.

Maybe we should go back to TBC and TBC like gearing just for a patch, maybe then you guys will actually become thankful for how easy modern WoW is gear progression wise.

10/17/2018 04:31 PMPosted by Velara
Now, it's:

will something drop at all?
can I use it?
what piece?
what stats?
what affixes?
TF or not?


The first one is outright false, something always drops. As is the 4th one, since stats on drops are in the journal. The 5th one is bizarre, gear doesn't have affixes.

Before it was :

Did something drop I can use ?
What piece ?
Did I win it ?

Now it is :

Did something drop I can use ?
What piece ?
Did I win it ?
TF/WF/Sockets/Tertiary.

I mean, we can remove the last part if that is what you guys really prefer. That will only leave you guys with lower ilvls.
10/17/2018 04:31 PMPosted by Velara
10/17/2018 01:33 AMPosted by Dylana
We need a system in place to bring incentive back into the game. The RNG i think the general consensus of the community hates the most. It's like playing a phone game now. You shouldn't be entitled to loot, at the same time WoW has always been a game of hard work triumphs. At this point in time, after master-loot was taken away, it added a much worse level of RNG that is currently absurd.

Do you remember WOTLK's badge system? Why did we hate it? Why did we love it? I know that a lot of people hated that the purples all became pretty much well-fare and to that I agree. So instead of gutting a system that had potential to work, why not tweak it to work better?

Does anyone honestly feel that RNG is better than fixing a system that worked at one point? I'm genuinely curious, they say that the people who are fine and happy with how the system is currently working generally tend to not even mention it, if there is though can you explain why you like it?

Either way if not a badge system, the RNG factor in character progression is really bad. To some degree, everyone wants to see their character progress, I myself do not care about gear, I happily distribute whenever I can. However it's disappointing when i hear my friends quitting or losing faith in the game because they have no incentive to even play. A few of them just give up because they've completely given up on the bad luck protection system. Because even if they got gear from it, it wasn't a piece they needed anyway. This is just a tiny example, however the factor all around seems to just be this xpac's RNG is just too much.

Which is why i say there needs to be something to fix RNG.

AGREE 100%

While there was always a random element to loot, there was only one: whether the targeted item would drop.

Now, it's:

will something drop at all?
can I use it?
what piece?
what stats?
what affixes?
TF or not?

FEH.

Bring back fixed loot tables so we can target farm again. And bring back badges and gear vendors and honor points (or make MoH drop 100% for wins) and PvP vendors. HELL YES

And bring back LOOT OPTIONS. PL sucks on toast.

TLDR: Bring back player agency.


Every dungeon and raid boss has a fixed loot table with fixed drops that have fixed secondaries or fixed azerite traits.

Have you never opened the dungeon journal??
10/17/2018 04:32 PMPosted by Beraaht

The first one is outright false, something always drops. As is the 4th one, since stats on drops are in the journal. The 5th one is bizarre, gear doesn't have affixes.

Before it was :

Did something drop I can use ?
What piece ?
Did I win it ?

Now it is :

Did something drop I can use ?
What piece ?
Did I win it ?
TF/WF/Sockets/Tertiary.

I mean, we can remove the last part if that is what you guys really prefer. That will only leave you guys with lower ilvls.


So do you like the current system, if so explain why. I'd like this to be a discussion where you all give feedback instead of just condescend others.

I personally loved TBC, but masterloot is now gone and that was a huge part of it. Not in vanilla of course until much later but still. If it went back to TBC/vanilla i'd be fine. However, do you honestly think the game can sustain itself with those systems? Maybe to the hardcore base, but it won't appeal to other people who love the game and would prefer some convienance. That's not to say people should feel like they're entitled to anything, there should be work. Which is why I think my suggestion to improve a badge system would work out.
I loved the wrath badge vendors. I'd even be happy with JP/Valor, Honor/Conquest coming back.
I really don't understand how taking out those systems made any sense to the dev team.

Working towards gear I want to buy > RNG slot machine for everything.
10/17/2018 04:32 PMPosted by Beraaht
10/17/2018 03:53 PMPosted by Trish
tanked my first heroic uldir 2 weeks ago, dropped 2 bosses. azerite.
moved on to regular, downed 4 more bosses. azerite.

last week I didnt bother to log in on raid day. I believe I was playing marvel strike force on my phone and decided to do house chores instead....
In case blizzard missed it, I decided that I would rather do house chores than raid.


So when the game starts dishing out more and more gear, you get posters like the above, so entitled that if they don't get a piece of loot they wanted (nevermind getting a dupe), they entirely leave their team and gang hanging the next week and quit.

Back in Vanilla/TBC you could raid for months without loot. People still came week after week.

Today, if you don't get a piece everytime you log on or if that piece is not an upgrade, then "Trash game, would rather do chores".

It seems the more loot the game gives, the less players are satisfied.

Maybe we should go back to TBC and TBC like gearing just for a patch, maybe then you guys will actually become thankful for how easy modern WoW is gear progression wise.

10/17/2018 04:31 PMPosted by Velara
Now, it's:

will something drop at all?
can I use it?
what piece?
what stats?
what affixes?
TF or not?


The first one is outright false, something always drops. As is the 4th one, since stats on drops are in the journal. The 5th one is bizarre, gear doesn't have affixes.

Before it was :

Did something drop I can use ?
What piece ?
Did I win it ?

Now it is :

Did something drop I can use ?
What piece ?
Did I win it ?
TF/WF/Sockets/Tertiary.

I mean, we can remove the last part if that is what you guys really prefer. That will only leave you guys with lower ilvls.
whether you agree with the reason or not, the game is losing raiders.
entitled? no, not really. I raided vanilla, I raided BC. when they added JP it was great. I felt like I was making progress even when nothing dropped and it felt good to do content even though I didnt always get gear.
now that isnt the case. azerite just isnt worth spending 4 hours in a raid when I could be playing something else thats much more rewarding.
10/17/2018 03:48 AMPosted by Amine
Also, I have no idea why you are bringing PvP into this discussion. As far as I remember the badge system was just for PvE gear anyway.


Then you were not pvping during WoD. They had an almost perfect gearing setup for pvp. You earned badges of honor for the lower level gear, and badges of conquest, for the higher level gear.

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