Blizzard please don't remove Bonus Forging

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10/18/2018 02:20 PMPosted by Azemane
You get out what you put in to the system. It averages over time, even if individual events may vary. Currency is a boring slog to the same end goal.
That's where the division is, and where we need to find a middle ground.

Currency was a boring slog for you, it was a goal-oriented system for me.

Titanforging is fun for you, it feels like a luck-based reward system for me.

The thing is, removing it entirely would upset all of the people that enjoy it. Keeping it as it is is upsetting all of the people that don't. We need a good middle ground.

If I had more direct things to work toward and the luck-based system was limited a little better, I wouldn't mind it so much.

Someone above said their 370 item upped to a 390 item. If that was the highest it could go (or as someone suggested, +15 which = an entire tier), it would still feel good and it wouldn't be such a dramatic system.

But the moment I do a WQ and my advertised 325 pants upgrade +35 to beyond the content that should be the progression "step up" for me, it feels bad in general. Even if that drop initially felt good.
10/18/2018 02:18 PMPosted by Opera
10/18/2018 02:04 PMPosted by Ythisens
Extending the cap on this one. Nothing really to share on this at this point in time but we have been reading this thread. Appreciate the constructive posts and discussions.


The absolute best idea has already been brought up.

Limit the forging to never going above the next tier of difficulty. So 340 should never forge above 355, ever. +5 for WF, +15 tops for TF.

Problem fixed, nobody would !@#$% anymore.
I agree with this except +5 for WF and +10 tops for TF... and the next tier is only 10 ilvl above reducing the powercreep by a little bit at least.
I love it when an item has a chance to go Warforged or Titanforged, it keeps me playing the game because I'm always trying to improve my ilvl and stats, thank you!


your post has un-needed stuff.

if you like to improve ilvl and stats...you do that even w/o forging.
by going to the enxt tier of content. (dungeons/Heroics/raid finder and Mythic dungeons/Heroic/mythic raids)

forging is NOT better than the old way of gettign sure fire upgrades.

Its a RNG system that you have zero control over.

and if when you hit the cap of gear you dont wanan paly...that will happen with forging as well as normal loot system...there is ALWAYS a hard cap.

Just one way gets you there faster potentially whiel other is a lottery. (could be betetr or worse depending how system feels at the time)

Forged gear is toxic for a game.

You can literally have gear that is equal or betetr than raid gear before raids even opened.
You should NEVER outgear content not even out.
10/18/2018 02:20 PMPosted by Aehl


Very few that arent gated by RNG. Would YOU be happy running around with a 325 blue weapon that drags you down for weeks?

[/quote]

I mean, it's clearly not a problem for you because you're not even doing LFR.
10/18/2018 02:22 PMPosted by Orctang
10/18/2018 02:18 PMPosted by Tirii
The problem is that people expect titanforging, rather than let it come as a surprise.

Relax, it's still just a game guys.
Yeah, this is the real problem with some people.


Yeh right, how dare people expect something to drop in a game when there is a chance that it can drop.

It's not the players' expectations but the RNG design that's bad.
The problem with Titanforging is that it's RNG on top of RNG, and after a while that high and low of getting gear upgrades in that fashion can wear people down hugely. It also helps to contribute to the ilvl bloat we've seen in the last few xpacs, particularly in Legion. It probably would have been just as bad in WoD if we'd had an extra tier.

Games that favor a short high due to luck over actual investment become disposable in the eyes of players. It creates the same atmosphere as a mobile game, which can be appealing but are also a dime a dozen and can be tossed aside at any point.

The chance for a little, 5 ilvl upgrade is enough to give someone that same rush, and if vendors are added back, it will help offset that casino-like feeling as well. Vendors, Reforging, and even Upgrades, like in MoP, are all things that would help keep things healthier and playing more without resorting to gambling tactics.

Players like building up their characters in a way that feels in their control, and Titanforging and Warforging both take away a chunk of that control. Simple isn't better, people play more when there are systems in place that they can mess around with to try new things, even if that might not be the optimal choice.
10/17/2018 10:19 AMPosted by Kathyna
I love it when an item has a chance to go Warforged or Titanforged, it keeps me playing the game because I'm always trying to improve my ilvl and stats, thank you!
Titan forging is awful. Let me explain I was raiding with my friends. We're casual players weekend warriors. I heard all of them !@#$% because they didn't get a titan forge. Heroic raids shouldn't have this dumb slot machine attached to it. If i get a gear drop i should just be happy that i got my new weapon. Not be disappointed that its not titan forged nonesense. Cause i am already depending on a low drop rate . I have an additional drop rate to that drop.
Not everyone playing this game does higher level raiding. Some of us just do social raiding with our social guilds or activities out in the world. And for those situations, the better gear we have, the better we are at undertaking those activities.

I get rather sick and tired of people criticising the gear that other people get - and I suspect they don't turn around and scrap a piece of TF gear that drops to them and is an upgrade. Play the game for YOU, not for what someone else is wearing. Play the game you like to play and don't expect other people to fit your paradigm.

Just how much more homogenisation does this game need to have? Why is it so unfortunate if someone receives the pleasant surprise of getting a piece of gear with an unexpected level upgrade? Especially when the next raid will come along with a new higher level of gear that raiders can aspire to.

10/17/2018 09:27 PMPosted by Warstrike
Luck should not be a reward for character development. Its an mmo not a casino.


I keep seeing this "casino" type comment and it bugs me. This game is so much about luck. Almost everything we do involves luck in some way. Questing on a sub-120, getting a piece of gear for the quest - chance of it proccing to a blue or a purple. Should we remove that chance because it gives us an advantage over another levelling character? Or doing an Island Invasion or an Arathi run - every one of those elites we face have a chance of dropping something - again, entirely based on luck.

Where do you stop ... oh, I guess when it just doesn't suit a personal world view of how other players should receive certain things. But let's not take luck out of the equation if it works in your favour.
10/18/2018 02:29 PMPosted by Lovelywazbb
10/18/2018 02:22 PMPosted by Orctang
...Yeah, this is the real problem with some people.


Yeh right, how dare people expect something to drop in a game when there is a chance that it can drop.

It's not the players' expectations but the RNG design that's bad.
No, you are wrong.
Please remove bonus forging, the vast majority of players are strongly against it. It makes the game feel hollow, and prioritizes luck over hard work and skill.

Getting great items used to require hard work and skill, but now its all just luck. I just got a pair of 390 boots from the warfront, and I could care less...

Btw, most people upvoting the OP are trolls.
The absolute best idea has already been brought up.

Limit the forging to never going above the next tier of difficulty. So 340 should never forge above 355, ever. +5 for WF, +15 tops for TF.

Problem fixed, nobody would !@#$% anymore.

So that means Mythic raiders will benefits the most from this change? They will get the highest TF chance? while the Heroic/LFR scrubs are stuck?

What a garbage idea.
10/18/2018 02:31 PMPosted by Lonney
Please remove bonus forging, the vast majority of players are strongly against it.

The 2% * fixed.
10/18/2018 02:20 PMPosted by Aehl
Improving your ilvl and stats should be through improving yourself as a player. Not winning the lottery.


Then give us better sources for upgrades. Want to remove titanforging? Fine.

What goes in its place?

BFA and weapons.

How many sources are there?

Very few that arent gated by RNG. Would YOU be happy running around with a 325 blue weapon that drags you down for weeks?

"There are raids and other sources for gear"

Yeah there are, gated by RNG. And when you get kicked for bad dps, you look at your character and what do you say?

"I got kicked because my weapon sicks and there is NOWHERE to get an upgrade from..this isnt my fauit".

And it isnt.

Its a failure of game design.

Crafted weapons? You need 40 hydrocore. Where do you get those? Mythics and raids. To do those you need to finish, to finish you need to not be kicked, to not be kicked you need good dps, and what happens?

You get kicked for bad dps whilst trying to get the craft mats to make a good weapon so you dont get kicked for bad dps.

"LOL noob LFR is a loot pinata"

No it isnt. You can run for weeks and get NOTHING.

Kill boss with weapon drop on table. Here have some azerite.

Use bonus roll.

Here have more azerite.

You are now locked and cant loot that boss for another week. See where this is going? RNG gating is what is holding people back and there HAS to be a better way.

but they don't need it.


The progress of my toon is as important to me as yours is to you. It is not your place to tell me what i do or dont need.


Saying there aren't enough sources for loot is ridiculous. World quests, heroics, mythics, mythic+, 3 raid difficulties, arena, battlegrounds etc.
10/18/2018 02:18 PMPosted by Opera
10/18/2018 02:04 PMPosted by Ythisens
Extending the cap on this one. Nothing really to share on this at this point in time but we have been reading this thread. Appreciate the constructive posts and discussions.


The absolute best idea has already been brought up.

Limit the forging to never going above the next tier of difficulty. So 340 should never forge above 355, ever. +5 for WF, +15 tops for TF.

Problem fixed, nobody would !@#$% anymore.

im just quoting it because I want it on every page t b h
I don't mind the Warforging/Titanforging system but only if there is an NPC that can upgrade existing pieces to Warforge/Titanforge like in MoP. We could use Valor Points from dungeons/raids to pay for it and then if your item were to Forge off a drop it just saves you resources but let's someone else get to the same spot through effort/time.

Limit the forging to never going above the next tier of difficulty. So 340 should never forge above 355, ever. +5 for WF, +15 tops for TF.

Also this. Everyone can bump their gear up a little bit to help get to the next difficulty but you can't skip steps. It's all a logical progression.
10/18/2018 02:20 PMPosted by Aehl
Improving your ilvl and stats should be through improving yourself as a player. Not winning the lottery.


Then give us better sources for upgrades. Want to remove titanforging? Fine.

What goes in its place?

BFA and weapons.

How many sources are there?

Very few that arent gated by RNG. Would YOU be happy running around with a 325 blue weapon that drags you down for weeks?

"There are raids and other sources for gear"

Yeah there are, gated by RNG. And when you get kicked for bad dps, you look at your character and what do you say?

"I got kicked because my weapon sicks and there is NOWHERE to get an upgrade from..this isnt my fauit".

And it isnt.

Its a failure of game design.

Crafted weapons? You need 40 hydrocore. Where do you get those? Mythics and raids. To do those you need to finish, to finish you need to not be kicked, to not be kicked you need good dps, and what happens?

You get kicked for bad dps whilst trying to get the craft mats to make a good weapon so you dont get kicked for bad dps.

"LOL noob LFR is a loot pinata"

No it isnt. You can run for weeks and get NOTHING.

Kill boss with weapon drop on table. Here have some azerite.

Use bonus roll.

Here have more azerite.

You are now locked and cant loot that boss for another week. See where this is going? RNG gating is what is holding people back and there HAS to be a better way.

but they don't need it.


The progress of my toon is as important to me as yours is to you. It is not your place to tell me what i do or dont need.


hopefully this post roast gets clipped off ya boi's stream

edit: this game !@#$ing pisses gear at you, and none of it matters because the underlying systems (gambling) are so unrewarding that even getting a 45 ilvl upgrade titanforge with a socket gives impostor syndrome.
10/17/2018 10:19 AMPosted by Kathyna
I love it when an item has a chance to go Warforged or Titanforged, it keeps me playing the game because I'm always trying to improve my ilvl and stats, thank you!

lul
nice bait 10/10
Forging is just a nice random potential bonus for your character; the overall effect on progression is minimal, and most of the complaints I have seen are from people who are actively chasing forges as a surrogate for character progression.

If your best source of potential progression is forging, guess what? You've hit the cap on the content you're experiencing and you're just wasting your time trying to milk it for more if that's all you're after.

I don't see a problem with it since it hurts nothing. It's just a random bonus that may or may not help your character ever so slightly. +20ilvls on one piece of gear is not worth actively chasing, nor does it ruin the game or make you suddenly OP.
Ah yes. I to love replacing my epic gear with a lower ilvl Blue because it McForged a gem socket.

What fun game design.
10/18/2018 02:28 PMPosted by Shantarin
10/18/2018 02:20 PMPosted by Aehl


Very few that arent gated by RNG. Would YOU be happy running around with a 325 blue weapon that drags you down for weeks?


I mean, it's clearly not a problem for you because you're not even doing LFR.

Right? Dude writes a wall of text of BS and he doesn't even play the game.
I really dislike Titanforging. Warforging I'm fine with if there was a way to upgrade non-Warforged pieces to Warforged levels (a la Valor upgrades). Warforged drops should just be a shortcut. Let us upgrade with Hydrocores or Sanguicell. They're already there taking up bag space.

I have no issue with casuals getting Warforges. Hell, let Heroic Dungeon/LFR/Normal Raid gear Titanforge up 20 levels. That's fine. Once it comes to Mythic + Dungeon gear and Heroic/Mythic Raid gear, there needs to be more restraint on what can drop. Ultimately, M+ and Raiding is about competition as much as it is about completing the content. Parses, M+ times, etc. Luck should play less of a part in the process.

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