Was early legion this bad?

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It was more or less the same. Do the zones, get to max, grind world quests for rep to be able to unlock things with the faction you wanted.. specifically nightborne in legion, this time its the war reputation and muradin

People talking about Suramar forget how god awful the time gating on that rep grind was. You had to stop and go grind world quests a bunch to keep going with the story, and that was limit, so you were stuck behind a time gate much of the time waiting on new WQs so you could get closer to being able to advance the story again. It was okay at the early stages, but noteably worse the further you got, with days of that between actual story quests.

Other than that, pretty much the same. WQs continue to offer rewards that are lackluster and beneath your item level, so outside of rep or money or AP, theres no reason to do them. Mythics were actually more useful in early legion IIRC, but the opening raid was also shorter so you cleared it faster each week and had less to do if you werent going to push mythic mode. So.. frankly about the same amount of "end game pve content" to do, time wise.

Legion had a great pre-expansion event though for leveling alts, which bfa lacked. But then it also time gated its order hall story behind lengthy mission table assignments for followers, but in many cases it wasn't just one 16 hour mission, it was 4 four hour missions so you couldnt just set it, go to bed, work, then it be ready by the time you were home, you had to keep putting in the new missions. Also it felt more impactful to grind AP in legion early on, because you were unlocking very direct powerful traits on your weapon, where as with the necklace you can grind up an entire level but not get anything for it because none of our armor unlocks a trait at that level... or you're on the third tier and its all miniscule defensive/healing buffs.

All in all, I'd say legion was better.. but.. not by a whole lot. You felt more compelled to play, but not necessarily because you wanted to because the content was compelling... more so, that you had to
10/26/2018 02:13 AMPosted by Skold
I didn't play legion, but was it this bad early on? There just seems to be no compelling content. Warmode was fun early on but now its dead and you can't find any alliance on it. Class balance hasn't affected me because the classes I play are fine the way they are but I've had friends quit already because their favorite classes are unplayable. Island expeditions aren't fun even if they added rewards vendors to them. WQ's are boring and not compelling beyond doing the 370 cache whenever it pops up. It just seems like there is no reason to log on beyond those 2-3 nights a week for raid and do your one 10 key with your guild to get your chest before you log off for the week.

Everyone has told me legion was bad early on but became one of the more notable expansions, was early legion this bad?

In the beginning of Legion there were class/spec imbalance, Artifact grind, but Legion did have a more world engagement than BFA but they both still had the same ol system; PVP, Dungeons, Raids, and WQs. Nothing new that many players asked for and when they did, they got Garrisons, squished and horrible talents, etc. But Legion was 15% better than BFA, from my point of view.
At Legion launch, everything felt shiny and new.

But BFA feels like a very big Legion patch for me tbh.
Legion was infinitely better in almost every regard
Honestly, I don't think it was. Artifact weapons, despite having major flaws, were also more predictable because there was a set path. You had this branching off thing you could do, but it wasn't something that Blizz hadn't already accounted for because you were gonna get all of your traits eventually, anyway.

With Azerite armor, it's clear Blizz hadn't anticipated the absolute debacle it would have been. And BFA as a whole does have an air of unfinished-ness about it. Something that's clearly lacking, or clearly messy. One of the greens who I reference often involving this topic had made a thread basically saying that Blizz's mantra has changed from "It'll be ready when it's ready." to "We'll fix it after it goes live."

That's not a good thing to have happen, really. And it does make me hope that the reason for this is because Blizzard has been so focused on going forward, that they simply made mistakes along the way. And not this doomsday feeling other people toss around about how Blizz has simply neglected WoW and its playerbase. I don't think that makes much sense either, but the community feels a bit jaded when interacting within it at this point.
I found Legion to be an amazing expansion, the only issues were ap locked to specs, shared ap would have been better, the acquisition of leggos pre ToS (i had them all by the end of tos) and finally paragon caches rng. I still don't have my carpet from the Nightborne.

Everything else i loved and tbh i enjoyed it so much that the above wasn't even that big of a deal.
Even leaving for broken isles felt epic. You had to rally troops, eat food, and even duel outside of orgrimmar before the big send off. Now it was, go with nathanos and free prisoners.
Despite the bugs and issues. Legion was a very solid expansion.
Legion was a good expac but about early into it, to midway, people did complain. People always complain.

Sometimes it's valid, sometimes it's not. I think of it as a tradition.
i was on break from April 2015 till May 2017 when i heard that flying was obtainable. it took me about two weeks to earn warlords flying and four more afterward to fly in legion. which was also around the time that artifact knowledge became account wide (no need to spend order hall resources on that anymore)
I think the problem is we got nothing substantially new so BFA right now is feeling like a Legion extension and not a new expansion. Sure I hit 120 and got a lot of new quests and story but the daily routines are the same.

We lost a lot of abilities, the mission tables were stripped down. World quests, mythics, raids all the same. Warfronts are cool but it is not enough to carry the expansion and is flawed in its own way. The PVP revamp was nice but if you do not PVP then you do not see it.

Island expeditions feel like weaker scenarios. They feel like the scenario version of world quests and not mini dungeons like Scenarios were.

Not to mention the constant bugs. And a lot of them are super weird or oversights you would think they would catch.

Also professions feel even more useless with the scrapper added and other changes. Look, even the gold making comnunity feels a lot of things are off and there are lots of people talking about how slow the economy is moving and how fast it has dropped compared to the past few expansions.

There is more negativity than ever it feels like. I was here for flying problems in warlords and the real ID debacle. The whole game, not just the forums is filled with this air of disdain and I have yet to see anyone willing to call this a great expansion. Plenty like it enough or tolerate it but not even the biggest fan boys I know are saying this is great.

This expansion felt like a wash when it started. The story is a super mess and very few are happy with it. We have done faction war before and better so it is nothing new either.
I thought early Legion was a blast
Early Legion had its problems, but it largely around the RNG of getting a legendary and if you got bad one(s) it kind of sucked because some of them were THAT good and if you didn't have them..... wasn't all that fun.

However, there was a ton of new stuff/new features, aside from the standard stuff like new raids, dungeons, zones, etc.... such as:
-class halls
-New class
-Artifact weapons, and all the things associated with it like going after various skins/tints and the mage tower
-World Quests (granted, these are/were effectively dailies but it was new-ish)

With BFA, aside from the standard he standard stuff like new raids, dungeons, zones, what new/fun stuff is there?
-Yeah, there's a mission table (like in Wod and legion) but man oh man is it useless/worthless outside of like a handful of missions
-Yeah, there's world quests still, only they are not really worth doing. Even more so once you hit exalted with that faction
-Yeah, there's still mythic+ but it's just like it was in legion (only most instances have an ungodly amount of trash in them)
-Heart of azeroth. Like the artifacts (in that you dump AP into them) but that is where it ends. There is no real lore behind it (I mean, how can it compare to stuff like ashbringer, doomhammer, etc.. ?). No additional skins/tints to chase. No mage tower type scenario
-No new class (which is fine, we just had an expansion where one got added) but the allied races? All reskin crap which really ought to have just been character customization options YEARS ago
10/26/2018 02:23 AMPosted by Taliså
No it wasn't, but either is BfA. People just like complaining if it isn't exactly what they want

Agreed and there are only a few major differences between both endgames.

Artifact Weapons

Island Expeditions
Azerite Armor

Personally, I am really enjoying this expansion. Island expeditions are not really my thing, so I am finally finding the time that I have wanted for a while to work on my alts.
10/26/2018 02:55 AMPosted by Moringa
At Legion launch, everything felt shiny and new.

But BFA feels like a very big Legion patch for me tbh.

This probably sums up BFA's main problem, it doesn't really do anything to innovate. They say if it isn't broken then don't fix it, but that doesn't mean you need to try to keep everything exactly the same. Azerite was the big "innovation" of this expansion but it fell flat on its face by being poorly implemented and not adequately replacing the THREE systems it replaced.

That said, Legion at launch shared a LOT of the same problems BFA has now. Classes widely imbalanced, some in dire need of fixing (shadow priests in BFA are getting a makeover in 8.1 - just like how destro locks got a makeover in 7.1). Azerite pieces from M+ being stupidly rare and RNG-based on if you get one thats actually good for your spec, just like how Legendaries were stupidly rare and RNG-based on if you get one that's actually good for you. Arguably the story feeling one-sided (Alliance people are claiming that BFA is too Horde favoured, whereas Legion was too Alliance favoured), and so on

It's a problem in itself that Blizzard hasn't learned from their past mistakes, but the fact that Blizzard did ultimately fix most of the problems of Legion and turned it into a good expansion DOES mean there's hope for BFA to turn into a good expansion too. It's definitely too late for Azerite, though, just like how the stigma against Legendaries never went away either. Even if Blizz manages to make Azerite an incredible system, it'll still be lauded as BFA's biggest failing.

After all, first impressions are very important. Just look at Diablo 3. That ended up being an actual good game, but you still have people throwing up the BMAH as evidence to why they think D3 is a terrible game and the BMAH was abolished years ago
Early legion was amazing, but definitely had flaws. The whole expansion had a unified theme...you were fighting demons and stopping the legion. You got to learn about Suramar and the Nightborne, and the Nighhold raid was foreshadowed from day one of the expansion. I was super excited to see that raid.

Everyone wanted their first legendary, and that was where the problems began. If you got a good legendary the game was super fun. If you got a worthless legendary it bled color out of the game, because you knew you weren't relevant for end game and that it could be months before you saw another legendary.

Suramar was crazy hard, especially on squishy classes. It was really easy to die, and happened often for a lot of the player base. That was ultimately minor, but something that got mentioned often.

Legion was also incredibly alt-unfriendly, and even spec unfriendly. Each artifact had a separate grind. That said, Legion offered SO MUCH MORE REPLAY. Each class had its own hall, with a story for each artifact. Just leveling alts and go around seeing those stories kept me busy in between content patches.

I think the reason BfA is faring so badly is that everything it offers came from legion, but is implemented worse. The only new features, Warfronts and Island Expeditions, flopped.
I played Legion right after it came out but played for a month, maybe two (it was like October 2016) before I quit until April 2018 (so like 7.3.5?).

I felt like once I hit 110 on my hunter it was just a grind with world quests and at that time Artifact Knowledge required resources (I think) or was super slow or whatever and so it felt like it would take FOREVER as a casual to unlock my artifact weapon completely. I did a few levels and just went on to something else (writing a book and later Warhammer II Total War).

That break was the best thing, though, because when I came back in 2018 all the catch-up mechanics were in game. Flying was unlocked, heirlooms were scaling and Argus was in the game and I was earning millions of artifact power per turn-in and my artifact weapon was leveled to like 40+ after a very few artifact item turn-ins. THAT was satisfying (to me). Then I went on to grind in Argus and have fun. Then I took a break because I felt there was no point to repeating the end game content of Legion on ALL my alts and I was just feeling down. So I stopped in late May 2018 until BFA in August 2018.
It wasn't this bad, but it wasn't that good either. Legion is fairly overrated because it followed a horrible wod expansion which would make almost anything look good. Legion introduce a number of new concepts to that game that were well received.
Overall legion is really close to BFA in terms of content and fun on release. The only thing legion really had going for it, was that it wasn't WOD. I actually quit legion after the 2.5 month mark because it was pretty boring. Only reason I'm still playing BFA is because I have a weekly raid group.
I loved Suramar, a lot of people hated it though......poor souls. But the AP grind was real just like the azerite grind now.
Early Legion was a lot of fun. It had all of the features of BfA but they were all better implemented.

AP was a defined path and not completely random.
Leggos still had a bad luck mechanic you could hammer through. And you could get them from almost anything.
World quests were quick and rewarding.
The dungeons weren't 45-60 minute trash farming.
The lore was interesting, and not poorly thrown together marketing.

Edit: I do submit that the artifact weapon and legendary systems were not good... but they were better than what is currently in the game.

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