Uldir - Zul heroic 10 man raid tuning/bug

BFA Dungeons, Island Expeditions, and Raids
Our guild has been trying to push heroic Uldir for a while and got completely roadblocked on Zul. After one full night of raiding dedicated to just Zul with two 20% wipes, a few members of our guild started investigating. If we just look at warcraftlogs and sort the logs by Zul heroic clears with group size less than 12 (for small raids), a problem becomes apparent immediately.

Heroic Difficulty:
10-man raid - 19 Zul Kills
11-man raid - 58 Zul Kills
12-man raid - 112 Zul Kills

And it goes up pretty quickly from there. So there is clearly some slight tuning that might be necessary

So this was a cause for some concern on it's own but none-the-less, we were still committed in trying to clear. One thing while we were doing our engagements stood out in particular. One of our healers seemed to get Dark Revelation cast on them a strangely large amount of times.

In fact, when we went through the numbers, one of our healers had Dark Revelation casted on them 29 times over an entire raid night. On its own that number doesn't seem to significant, especially over 26 wipes, but every single other player in the raid had it cast on them 17-20 times, except for one outlier. Our other healer had dark revelation cast on them a single time over the entire raid night. They were present in every single fight, every single engagement, and active in combat.

When checking other logs to see if this is consistent with other raid nights, this seems to be the case. Previous raid nights almost entirely dedicated to this boss had dark relevation cast on this one healer in particular 17 times among a range of 11-17 casts for the rest of the group (except tanks). The same outlier (different player) was present; the other healer had dark revelation cast on them a single time.

Honestly, if the spell is being cast randomly among all party members excluding the tanks, there should be a pretty close to even distribution. I understand the deviances in the ranges which is going to happen regardless, but when one healer is effected by the spell once over an entire raid night and the other is having it cast on them just as much as, if not more than the DPS, something is very clearly wrong. After talking with various high level players in healing discords (mostly priest), many of them expressed surprise since they had only had it cast on them once or twice over all of their attempts, some even never.

Conversations with other players in various discords yields player's claiming that the spell is supposed to be random, with healers almost never getting Dark Revelation cast on them except when the raid is wiping. After checking all the logs, this behavior held true for one healer, but not the other. Supposedly it is based off of player position or player ID, but that would be monumentally stupid from a coding perspective and only serve to create problems such as this one.

Here is a link to the warcraft logs file for the most recent raid night where users can verify for themselves.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Qpwq4zcdbLWx7VZ9/
At the very least I would hope this would be fixed in some way but I doubt that will be the case. This bug makes it extremely difficult for us to try to kill Zul. Some players have suggested it is targeting by playerID which leads to just this one healer in particular getting annihilated for absolutely no reason.

TL;DR - Dark revelation is targeting one of our healers and not the other.
If you're realizing a healer is getting dark revelations, you should have another healer. Problem solved.
10/27/2018 10:01 PMPosted by Amaurus
one of our healers had Dark Revelation casted on them 29 times over an entire raid night. On its own that number doesn't seem to significant, especially over 26 wipes, but every single other player in the raid had it cast on them 17-20 times, except for one outlier

This is completely RNG based, I've had nights like that as well where I get targeted by a mechanic 50% more than the next highest, it sucks, but that's how RNG works sometimes.. the RNG for the encounter has to has to be completely independent on previous ones so there's no real way around it it's just gonna happen sometimes.
11/01/2018 09:51 AMPosted by Holymonky

This is completely RNG based, I've had nights like that as well where I get targeted by a mechanic 50% more than the next highest, it sucks, but that's how RNG works sometimes.. the RNG for the encounter has to has to be completely independent on previous ones so there's no real way around it it's just gonna happen sometimes.


But in a 10-man, the overall chance of it repeatedly happening to a healer is higher.
11/01/2018 11:57 AMPosted by Stupandas
But in a 10-man, the overall chance of it repeatedly happening to a healer is higher.

Oh yeah I mean I agree that some fights in Uldir are not well designed for smaller groups, just the point about someone getting particularly bad RNG between different pulls it's going to happen sometimes, the only way to prevent that would be to give some sort of bad-luck protection that considered your past pulls to calculate your chance to be targeted by an ability again, that would not only be incredibly hard but also not the right direction, encounters and pulls have to be completely independent from each other.
10/28/2018 02:22 PMPosted by Morphasis
If you're realizing a healer is getting dark revelations, you should have another healer. Problem solved.


11/01/2018 09:51 AMPosted by Holymonky
10/27/2018 10:01 PMPosted by Amaurus
one of our healers had Dark Revelation casted on them 29 times over an entire raid night. On its own that number doesn't seem to significant, especially over 26 wipes, but every single other player in the raid had it cast on them 17-20 times, except for one outlier

This is completely RNG based, I've had nights like that as well where I get targeted by a mechanic 50% more than the next highest, it sucks, but that's how RNG works sometimes.. the RNG for the encounter has to has to be completely independent on previous ones so there's no real way around it it's just gonna happen sometimes.


I believe you are all missing the point. As such, I will now pull out the full log and reiterate myself:
    Healer Hinawawa - 29
    DPS Aminna - 19
    DPS Panntheedgy - 19
    DPS Kaelada - 20
    DPS Mãgnolia - 19
    DPS Amazement - 18
    DPS Juststorm - 17
    Healer Boomkinlunar - 1


Note first of all, one healer had dark revelation cast on them ONCE while the other had it cast on them 29 times. This is the main point I am making. Assuming an even distribution of casts, we have a sum of 29+19+19+20+19+18+17+1 = 142 casts with 8 potential party members as targets. The odds of it being cast on any given user is simply 1/8 or 12.5% chance of being targeted. In theory, an even distribution would simply be 142 casts / 8 members, so theoretically 17.75 casts per party member. Of course there will be some deviances which are apparent from the numbers above, but one person had 16 less casts than the projected average.

Now lets step back and look at the reality. The reality of this boss fight is that in every single log I have looked at along with anecdotes from other healers, this is not the intended behavior. The intended behavior seems to be that the healers are not one of the designated targets. This is typical with other logs even with the same raid size. However, for some reason, this one healer in particular (Hinawawa) is getting targeted by Dark Revelation far more than the other healer.
In fact, the two don't even compare statistically. In this log for instance, the healer Hinawawa exhibited an effective 20% chance to have dark revelations cast on them. Meanwhile, the other healer, Boomkinlunar, exhibited an effective 0.7% chance to have dark revelations cast on them. I have another log which shows the exact same behavior with the same healer (Hinawawa). That isn't RNG.
Our raid team struggles to hit 15, quite often we go in with 10 to 12 people.

I for one am sick to death of what feels like punching myself in the nether regions by tackling Zul Heroic. Balance for low number groups in this expansion has been shocking from the start.
>1300 Mythic kills
*25* 10H kills
What do u expect from a beta ?

BETA FOR AZEROTH!!!!
I wonder if its got some sketchy coding for priests/belfs. I could see them wanting to make priests picked less often seeing as the fight was designed for priests to mass the adds that come after. And perhaps that one wan’t it to prefer non belfs because arcane torrent triviales the fear adds

In the several heroic and mythic zul kills i’ve been in I was never chosen and our rsham had all of the healer dark rev’s consistently ( heal comp of 3 belfs, 2 priests, and a rsham)

The first night i played my undead priest i got the mechanic for the first time.

Could be coincidence but who knows anymore.
Blizz hates him, personally?
11/08/2018 10:34 PMPosted by Serafína
I wonder if its got some sketchy coding for priests/belfs. I could see them wanting to make priests picked less often seeing as the fight was designed for priests to mass the adds that come after. And perhaps that one wan’t it to prefer non belfs because arcane torrent triviales the fear adds

In the several heroic and mythic zul kills i’ve been in I was never chosen and our rsham had all of the healer dark rev’s consistently ( heal comp of 3 belfs, 2 priests, and a rsham)

The first night i played my undead priest i got the mechanic for the first time.

Could be coincidence but who knows anymore.


I think it is coincidence, but a likely coincidence. The way the fight is, the smaller the group, the more likely something bad will happen. Flipping tails four times in a row is more likely than rolling four 1s in a row is more likely than dealing four Aces. The odds of one specific player being consistently targeted is high. The odds of your soaker being hit by Dark Revelation or Deathwish is very high (it happened to us at least once every attempt).
A good point, though I raid in 20-30 mans I just noticed dark rev seemed fishy in my larger raids aswell. Just double checked my mythic kill logs outa curiosity and in every kill and wipe me and the other disc priest never got chosen
It does feel as if it is rougher for smaller groups. Vectis and G'huun feel the same.

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