How are we supposed to have faction pride

General Discussion
Who was fine with Vol’jin?

What did he accomplish? Had no hand in WoD (most of his time being warchief). Lost to generic orc Assassins. Needed the alliance to beat down Garrosh. Needed Thrall to save him and his peeps from murlocs. The same people that liked this guy are the same people that like Saurfang and hate someone good at killing Alliance ie Sylvanas.
Queue the Alliance saying Sylvanas is good at killing her own when really I don’t understand why the Alliance feel like they should have a say in who leads the Horde, but then again it seems like they do because Saurfang the lackey is about stage a coup with boy wonder Anduin.
Well, guess it's time to nominate Roll of Toilet Paper for Warchief. Wonder how it'll be corrupted.
11/04/2018 01:04 AMPosted by Enekie
You lose Warchiefs, we lose cities.

You know Undercity was lost too, right?
Or does that not count because it helps to further your invalid point.
11/04/2018 01:32 AMPosted by Reyvira
11/04/2018 01:04 AMPosted by Enekie
You lose Warchiefs, we lose cities.

You know Undercity was lost too, right?
Or does that not count because it helps to further your invalid point.


Alliance can’t be alliance if they aren’t victims.
Gamon has my vote...!!

If you think about it, he's been killed by Horde at least 1 billion times, so that would make him a perfect candidate..!!
The Horde is not the Warchief.

Say it with me: "The Horde is not the Warchief".

The Warchief has responsibility to the Horde, both to its fighting forces - to lead them wisely and commit them strategically - and moreso to its common citizens - to defend them from danger, particularly armed aggression.

The Warchief serves. The office is that of military supreme commander, not tyrant or monarch. Each of our peoples has its own style of leadership, and those leaders govern. The Warchief presides over matters of mutual defense.

Thrall was a fine Warchief. But having achieved much, he wanted to pursue his study and practice of Shamanism, re-connect with his remaining family on Draenor, and to start a family of his own. Surely no one can begrudge him the chance to pursue these worthy goals.

Garrosh was a poor Warchief. He leveraged his authority to push away some members of the Horde, and to pursue personal self-aggrandizement. Unable to control his passions, he had the misfortune to arrive at a place where an Old God's dying curse made ungoverned passions hazardous.

It was our bad luck that his high office meant that his personal failings came to reflect upon the Horde. When he became a danger to all our people, we removed him.

There is no shame in this. We Sin'dorei also lost a leader to pride and madness, and when he endangered our world, opened our lands to all people of Azeroth equipped and prepared to help us defeat him and the demon masters he served.

Vol'jin was a fine Warchief, wise, cunning, brave and humble. He led us against the gravest threat we have faced in all the years of the Horde. He fought beside his own troops and, sadly, died of wounds honorably earned. There is no shame in his sacrifice, only an abiding mystery in what, exactly, prompted him to name his successor.

Sylvanas is a poor Warchief. Her tactical over-reach provoked a terrible retaliation by the Alliance, and created circumstances that endanger all Horde lands, and all those who reside there. She is reckless in expending our forces, because those that are slain can be added to her own people, regardless of their wishes in life.

Quel'thalas upholds the Horde, and not its Warchief. If Sylvanas cannot be contained, she will be removed. Because that is how we preserve our forces and our people: together.
If you want a game featuring a Horde based around strength, honor, and loyalty and is led by a competent warchief, WC3 is waiting for you in 2019.

(Also if you want an undead faction that actually does dominate the world.)
11/04/2018 12:12 AMPosted by Holfir
When we go through warchiefs like toilet paper

Or when they keep being written as one-dimensional villains

EVERYONE was fine with Vol'Jin until blizz killed him off in the most undignified footnote of a death

Then we got stuck with the forsaken that was rewritten as hitler 2


First off, Voljin isn't gone. According to events that have yet to unfold, he's running around asking questions and so on. He's just not a meat bag anymore that can die.

Secondly, they just had to go and make a faction war which wasn't going to happen with Varian and Voljin in charge. Varian would have been a more opposing enemy and all of the soap opera wouldn't be able to unfold, and they weren't going to dirty Voljin's hands like they have the roadkill queen. The problem is that they shouldn't have had a faction war to begin with as the focal point.
Vol'jin's death pissed me off. And I'm an Alliance Fanboi. I mean problem with Vol'jin. Blizzard would actually have to put effort and depth and context for conflict between Horde and Alliance with Vol'jin.

Vol'jin was diplomatic. Honorable, and well capable of playing Dirty when necessary not a rambling Psychopath. Either. The STV Questline in Cata for example. He sent Diplomats to Stormwind Harbor to inform the Alliance of the troubles in the Region. Why?

I mean any other Horde Leader.. Except Thrall, would've just let the few Alliance Holdings in Stranglethorn die off.

Realistically Vol'jin would work to strengthen the Horde and ease Tensions Between the two Factions.

Vol'jin was one of the few Horde Leaders I actually liked as a character. So yeah I sympathize with the Troll Fans. I mean the Alliance Equivalent would be like Making Mekkatorque High King of the Alliance. Then having him Killed off by a Rando. I mean Varrian went down in a Blaze of Glory at least. Varian's Death. Dramatic, Defiant to the bitter end.

Vol'jin. "I took a dagger poke to the side Mon!" 10 minutes later turns into a Cancer Patient. High on Morphine Coronates Sylvanas while in a delirium because voices in his head told him to..

Actually that sounds like 100 times worse now that I worded it that way.
11/04/2018 12:22 AMPosted by Genjuros
11/04/2018 12:12 AMPosted by Holfir
EVERYONE


Speak for yourself.

Yeah Im happy with the one we have.. /shrugs, but shell go and if we do get one.. hope it is Thrall because that sucker is dead in an expac.. shut these 'I want the old days back' crew up for a while.
11/04/2018 01:32 AMPosted by Reyvira
11/04/2018 01:04 AMPosted by Enekie
You lose Warchiefs, we lose cities.

You know Undercity was lost too, right?
Or does that not count because it helps to further your invalid point.

So you lost Undercity and Camp Taraujo, a sewer and a few tents. I suppose we can also put Stonard onto that list, except that it remains unchanged (e.g. in horde control with no visible damage) once the quests to take it over are finished, and horde players in that zone don't even notice the loss. So that one isn't a real loss.

Alliance, on the other hand, have lost Theramore, Teldrassil, Southshore, Gilneas City (not technically part of the faction until after the Lich Queen plaguebombed it, but it remains lost at this point in time), Andorhal, Nethergarde Keep, Silverwind Refuge, and possibly Astranaar (heavily damaged, but current status in lore is unclear).

So one faction loses a couple of places, neither of which are used by the conquerors (because a sewer filled with plague is unhealthy, and a burned campsite has no strategic value). The other faction loses more than twice as many places, to say nothing of all their territorial claims in zones like Hillsbrad or Azshara. Care to still call that point invalid?
Both Horde and Alliance are cringeworthy in my opinion.
No way would these mixed together cultural/biological missfits co operate and have unconditionally loyalty to each other through all the turmoils of Azeroth.
11/04/2018 12:12 AMPosted by Holfir
EVERYONE was fine with Vol'Jin until blizz killed him off in the most undignified footnote of a death


No, we weren't. Vol'jin was a completely garbage character. His accomplishments prior to becoming Warchief are underwhelming the minute context, or help, gets taken into account. He's really just a failure of a character and it's no surprised he died an undignified death.

Yeah, Sylvanas sucks too, but Vol'jin was literally the worst Warchief we've had DURING WoW.
11/04/2018 02:22 AMPosted by Reesespieces
11/04/2018 12:12 AMPosted by Holfir
EVERYONE was fine with Vol'Jin until blizz killed him off in the most undignified footnote of a death


No, we weren't. Vol'jin was a completely garbage character. His accomplishments prior to becoming Warchief are underwhelming the minute context, or help, gets taken into account. He's really just a failure of a character and it's no surprised he died an undignified death.

Yeah, Sylvanas sucks too, but Vol'jin was literally the worst Warchief we've had DURING WoW.


Garrosh, you're dead.
11/04/2018 01:30 AMPosted by Kentaurus
Well, guess it's time to nominate Roll of Toilet Paper for Warchief. Wonder how it'll be corrupted.


It'll be put on the roller with toilet paper under instead of over. Then it becomes a raid boss and rightly so!
All I can think of is the pot smoking hacks of Blizzard thought they could fix the faction imbalance by writing the Horde as "Evil" and by writing the Alliance as the pinnacle of moral and ethical purity ( by !@#$%^- reckoning).

For me, the terrible writing means, I just let my sub run out. I took off from Wrath to Cata and then from Cata to Legion so I missed Garrosh and that stupidity, I remember laughing about it with friends who still played then ( but not now).

They will continue to write Alliance NPCs as near God-like who can't tie their shoes and all Horde leaders will eventually be a villain because they violate the judeo-christian-*!@#$%^ moral and ethical norms, because fighting a war to win is clearly evil if the victims are pretty.
11/04/2018 01:32 AMPosted by Reyvira
11/04/2018 01:04 AMPosted by Enekie
You lose Warchiefs, we lose cities.

You know Undercity was lost too, right?
Or does that not count because it helps to further your invalid point.


No, it doesn't, because the main population were undead living in a sewer who are still doing just fine, and Sylvanas was the one who destroyed the city for the living.

The Horde lost some soldiers, mainly to Sylvanas, but Undercity is an insignificant loss compared to Teldrassil.

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