WHY Does Blizzard Not Work With Players?

General Discussion
I am asking seriously here, as in why do they not see what the players think before they do stuff like Diablo mobile and WoW content?

Imagine if Blizzard asked Alliance players about Void Elves over High Elves, problem would have been averted before they wasted time on that rather lame Void Elves.

What about asking Dks if they wanted DW or 2H? A survey even to show slight care?

Sylvanas is not Garrosh, we already did a story like that and Blizzard thinks to kill off a popular character...why? To drag out time / content and kill off ANOTHER Horde leader? Really? They felt the need to destroy the darker anti hero and pushed her to full evil. Lot of fans not happy about this, myself included. Hard to look at my poster and statue of the Dark Lady after what Blizzard did, can enjoy my Forsaken toons anymore either now, personal, yes, but tragic to a long time fan. As a woman I loved a character like Sylvanas getting a chance to redeem herself or to find the right path despite the tragic start.

No Forsaken allied race in a Forsaken focused expansion, seems really lame they chose to give double elves but not pay any attention to the Forsaken. I will say, the new Worgen models are at least being worked on slowly, so I am very happy for those who have patiently waited for years (but looks like at least another year still sadly).

When players get stuff they asked for, like Worgen and Goblin updates, they are happy. Why does Blizzard not just see what we want before they pull crap like Void Elves? Is it not common sense? Is there something I am missing?

I am not saying this to be rude to anyone or Blizzard, I am just seriously wondering WHY they do not see what the players want before applying content like Void Elves? Or messing up lore, doing Garrosh 2.0, why? Why not see if we like the plans rather than keeping it all secret only to have a silent crowd or angry forums? It just seems like a rather stupid business practice to not please the people lining their pockets, no?
I think Blizzard doesn't actually work with players of WoW or any of their other games because they think we have cooties.
11/06/2018 05:25 AMPosted by Vaerth
I am asking seriously here, as in why do they not see what the players think before they do stuff like Diablo mobile and WoW content?


Most studios are very hush-hush about upcoming projects. They are sparing about NDA's as well - imagine word getting out about a project that you've been working on for three years? That could cripple their competitive edge.

But perhaps that will change.

It used to be that a studio could release something and, if people weren't interested, they would just ignore it. Now, if a studio releases something that people aren't interested in, fans attack unceasingly.

There is intense entitlement in fan communities.
11/06/2018 05:30 AMPosted by Mvura
11/06/2018 05:25 AMPosted by Vaerth
I am asking seriously here, as in why do they not see what the players think before they do stuff like Diablo mobile and WoW content?


Most studios are very hush-hush about upcoming projects. They are sparing about NDA's as well - imagine word getting out about a project that you've been working on for three years? That could cripple their competitive edge.

But perhaps that will change.

It used to be that a studio could release something and, if people weren't interested, they would just ignore it. Now, if a studio releases something that people aren't interested in, fans attack unceasingly.

There is intense entitlement in fan communities.


It happens when you've built a legacy of 15-18 years of quality then you start producing crap the people that have been fans of your games for half their lives or more will be pissed. You've made quality products, games made by gamers for gamers then you make mobile cash grabs and time gate mmo content like it's a mobile game then yes fans have a right to be pissed off.
Because they, as developers, have their own views on the game and the direction they want to take it. We get no say in it.

The declining subs is the price they pay, but it's up to them to decide how much subs this or that time-wasting "feature" are worth when compared to development time/quality.

The only part of the game that has remained consistently great over all those years, are the art assets - musics, graphics, textures. Animation... not so much, in both quality and quantity, but they are at least pretty good.

Now most systems - combat, PvP, talent, gear acquisition etc. have either been getting progressively worse or going 1 step forward, 2 backwards ever since Wrath of the Lich King. And that, which is the meat of the game, is what is slowly killing it.
11/06/2018 05:34 AMPosted by Ryuk
11/06/2018 05:30 AMPosted by Mvura
...

Most studios are very hush-hush about upcoming projects. They are sparing about NDA's as well - imagine word getting out about a project that you've been working on for three years? That could cripple their competitive edge.

But perhaps that will change.

It used to be that a studio could release something and, if people weren't interested, they would just ignore it. Now, if a studio releases something that people aren't interested in, fans attack unceasingly.

There is intense entitlement in fan communities.


It happens when you've built a legacy of 15-18 years of quality then you start producing crap the people that have been fans of your games for half their lives or more will be pissed. You've made quality products, games made by gamers for gamers then you make mobile cash grabs and time gate mmo content like it's a mobile game then yes fans have a right to be pissed off.


I get the reasons for a NDA I see both points you two made in your comments. But as times change so does business practices. I simply mean that if they took a moment and spoke to players there would be way less anger and no Void Elves lol. I refer to the Void Elf thing because while I play Horde and dont care personally it has been a heavily spoken about topic since I left last year from WoW. I will be here for the month playing a little but nothing in BFA will keep my sub going, I am just playing around and checking some of it out since I bought BFA last year and never played it lol. There is nothing in BFA for my class to be excited about, and no allied races I like (I wanted a non Zombie Forsaken option or gen 1 DKs lol).

So, I understand why they kept things on the hush in years prior, but for a few years now that might not be the best approach anymore. Diablo Immortal is tanking Blizzard stocks right now, had they asked a few players their thought then this could have been adverted I would think lol. The customer is always right, we all know that. The silence out the Immortal announcement shows they really need a new approach or perhaps they are ready to let their empire fall.
11/06/2018 05:54 AMPosted by Ashania
Because they, as developers, have their own views on the game and the direction they want to take it. We get no say in it.

The declining subs is the price they pay, but it's up to them to decide how much subs this or that time-wasting "feature" are worth when compared to development time/quality.

The only part of the game that has remained consistently great over all those years, are the art assets - musics, graphics, textures. Animation... not so much, in both quality and quantity, but they are at least pretty good.

Now most systems - combat, PvP, talent, gear acquisition etc. have either been getting progressively worse or going 1 step forward, 2 backwards ever since Wrath of the Lich King. And that, which is the meat of the game, is what is slowly killing it.


Well said
11/06/2018 05:25 AMPosted by Vaerth
I am asking seriously here, as in why do they not see what the players think before they do stuff like Diablo mobile and WoW content?

Pretty simple really. Because they think they know better than you do what you want. This isn't anything new, Blizz has considered themselves above reproach since at least Cata which is when dev communication really went downhill till it stopped all together after MoP.

Which is one of the main guiding principles that has taken them from 12 million subs to less than 2.
11/06/2018 05:30 AMPosted by Mvura
11/06/2018 05:25 AMPosted by Vaerth
I am asking seriously here, as in why do they not see what the players think before they do stuff like Diablo mobile and WoW content?


Most studios are very hush-hush about upcoming projects. They are sparing about NDA's as well - imagine word getting out about a project that you've been working on for three years? That could cripple their competitive edge.

But perhaps that will change.

It used to be that a studio could release something and, if people weren't interested, they would just ignore it. Now, if a studio releases something that people aren't interested in, fans attack unceasingly.

There is intense entitlement in fan communities.
You're right. When I pay money I'm entitled to a good product or service. When instead it is awful, I will complain. Don't take customers' money and hand them a bag of poo and expect them to rejoice.
It's about the $$$.

Of course the NA fanbase is outraged and doesn't give a !@#$ about Diablo Immortal. They feel betrayed. Disconnected. Mobile gaming isn't very popular here.

But that game is going to utterly slay in Asia where the mobile gaming market is enormous and hungry. Just look at Lineage. They are going to make mountains of cash from it and it will be an enormous success in that regard.

Announcing it at Blizzcon with nothing else alongside it was a mistake. Bethesda could get away with that dumb Skyrim mobile game because it was announced as more of a 'hey we did this cool thing too if you want!' and it was alongside Fallout 76, Starfield or whatever, and the new Elder Scrolls teaser.

Diablo Immortal is nothing but a shameless cash grab. It's going to work, but it has certainly damaged the community's respect for Blizzard.

Problem is I don't think they really care at this point.
I think the reason Blizzard doesn't work with the players is, while some players have good ideas for the game, a large majority of players have really bad ideas.
11/06/2018 06:01 AMPosted by Moonfalls
11/06/2018 05:25 AMPosted by Vaerth
I am asking seriously here, as in why do they not see what the players think before they do stuff like Diablo mobile and WoW content?

Pretty simple really. Because they think they know better than you do what you want. This isn't anything new, Blizz has considered themselves above reproach since at least Cata which is when dev communication really went downhill till it stopped all together after MoP.

Which is one of the main guiding principles that has taken them from 12 million subs to less than 2.


This I hope is not true, but I see little in the way to claim otherwise. Sad but I was hopeful that Blizzard would find their roots again. Wonderful cinematic I will say, terrible game choices for the last couple years.
they rather spend an astronomical amount of time an money to do whatever they please and then fix everything afterwards according to backlashes... once it's too late.

efficiency isn't there at all!
Exactly which players should they listen to? As evidence shows in these forums alone, if you ask 20 people what they want you might get 20 different answers. There are people arguing in the Classic forums about what “no changes” means and a list of other things. Read any topic in these forums and not many agree on anything. You have way too many people misrepresenting what “they” want for what the “ community” wants. If you don’t want to play the mobile game don’t play it. Wait for a game you want to play like a sane adult.
Our opinions and preferences are often wildly different. Listening to us isn't easy.
11/06/2018 06:09 AMPosted by Roxxùs
I think the reason Blizzard doesn't work with the players is, while some players have good ideas for the game, a large majority of players have really bad ideas.


I do not mean Blizzard needs to ask for ideas, I mean more that they should see how the players feel about Blizzard's ideas lol.

Example.

Blizzard: You guys like these Void Elves
Players: This is a joke right?
Blizzard: Good thing we asked, High Elves it is

Fanboys: There is not enough High Elves
Players: They said that about Demon Hunters lol

If you have an idea, run it past the consumers before applying it tot he game. Well, that might just be the best way going forward. Maybe it was not in the past but these days they really are not doing well.
I can't speak for Diablo mobile but the reason for WoW is easy: The player base is rarely in agreement with what they want.

Looking at High Elves, many of us want them but as soon as they're implemented I guarantee there'll be angry players saying Blizz just gave Alliance Blood Elves with blue eyes, Blizz is lazy and Horde bias.

Hell, even with the Worgen/Goblin models there are topics on this very board complaining that female Worgen are too adorable and not fierce enough and that there's something unappealing about the new Goblin eyes.

I'd say the majority of people on this board need to wake up and realize that they do not represent the majority of the community and the reason why Blizz is having such a hard time doing anything right is because we're a large and diverse community.
11/06/2018 06:14 AMPosted by Lugral
Exactly which players should they listen to? As evidence shows in these forums alone, if you ask 20 people what they want you might get 20 different answers. There are people arguing in the Classic forums about what “no changes” means and a list of other things. Read any topic in these forums and not many agree on anything. You have way too many people misrepresenting what “they” want for what the “ community” wants. If you don’t want to play the mobile game don’t play it. Wait for a game you want to play like a sane adult.


What the majority want on some topics is pretty damn clear.
Such as most are in favor of High Elves, Flying, LFR/LFD staying, old PvP gearing and so on.
For some of the controversial issues, such as ilvl scaling and lvl scaling a simple toggle option would solve it PERMANENTLY, but Blizzard Devs don't seem to realize it.
For the other divisive opinions, such as Talent System, Skill Bloat, Raiding difficulty tiers and so on, a simple official poll wouid solve the matter.

Thing is, many of the issues that currently exist are so incredibly easy to solve, that I can only think of stupidity or stubbornness as being the reason they still persist.
11/06/2018 06:14 AMPosted by Eternosus
Our opinions and preferences are often wildly different. Listening to us isn't easy.


No, but either is the backlash from doign somethign that really crushed a group of players. For me, it si the lack of Death Knight love. For many, on these forums, it is the Alliance allied races (High Elves mainly) that have people crushed and upset. Personally I would love Forsaken non zombies and/or a little love for Dks. But that is just me, options are always a good thing. Blizzard does lack with options way more than another other game, but I come for the story / lore as I have since Wrath. I have no anger towards Blizzards choices, but MANY do. As a business, Blizzard might wish to rethink how the develop and apply content. No one can tell you better what to make than the people handing you their cash lol.

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