WHY Does Blizzard Not Work With Players?

General Discussion
players are extremely bias towards their chrs and classes they dont like it would be a disaster if players had a say.
11/06/2018 06:19 AMPosted by Ashania
11/06/2018 06:14 AMPosted by Lugral
Exactly which players should they listen to? As evidence shows in these forums alone, if you ask 20 people what they want you might get 20 different answers. There are people arguing in the Classic forums about what “no changes” means and a list of other things. Read any topic in these forums and not many agree on anything. You have way too many people misrepresenting what “they” want for what the “ community” wants. If you don’t want to play the mobile game don’t play it. Wait for a game you want to play like a sane adult.


What the majority want on some topics is pretty damn clear.
Such as most are in favor of High Elves, Flying, LFR/LFD staying, old PvP gearing and so on.
For some of the controversial issues, such as ilvl scaling and lvl scaling a simple toggle option would solve it PERMANENTLY, but Blizzard Devs don't seem to realize it.
For the other divisive opinions, such as Talent System, Skill Bloat, Raiding difficulty tiers and so on, a simple official poll wouid solve the matter.

Thing is, many of the issues that currently exist are so incredibly easy to solve, that I can only think of stupidity or stubbornness as being the reason they still persist.


Well aid, and i think a poll on things would be a good start as well. At least get SOME player insight before developing stuff people end up hating. Seems liek common sense though...
I don't think most of them actually play their own games anymore. Part of it, is being part of a huge corporation...there's so much corporate crap to deal with, actually doing your job often takes a back seat. Creatively, corporate life is a soul destroyer. How do you justify something with "I know because I'm a gamer" to higher instead of with charts and metrics?

11/06/2018 06:02 AMPosted by Xeldra
You're right. When I pay money I'm entitled to a good product or service. When instead it is awful, I will complain. Don't take customers' money and hand them a bag of poo and expect them to rejoice.
There's a limit, like death threats, but in general they should be thankful their customers are that passionate. When did passionate, become "entitled"? People are screaming, because they care. It's when they don't care, you have a problem.

How many of us would play WoW right now, if BFA was our first exposure to WoW? Willing to bet, and the sub numbers bear it out, that we'd go "meh" and walk away. Because they've lost the magic that made us passionate aka "entitled". When subs are high, and players are happy...it's "passion". But when they produce crap, and players are unhappy...it's "entitlement". Funny how that works, and the language they use, is telling.
11/06/2018 06:02 AMPosted by Xeldra
11/06/2018 05:30 AMPosted by Mvura
...

Most studios are very hush-hush about upcoming projects. They are sparing about NDA's as well - imagine word getting out about a project that you've been working on for three years? That could cripple their competitive edge.

But perhaps that will change.

It used to be that a studio could release something and, if people weren't interested, they would just ignore it. Now, if a studio releases something that people aren't interested in, fans attack unceasingly.

There is intense entitlement in fan communities.
You're right. When I pay money I'm entitled to a good product or service. When instead it is awful, I will complain. Don't take customers' money and hand them a bag of poo and expect them to rejoice.

Here is a solution. Don't pay then and move on.

TBH I am glad you guys have no say in the direction of the game. Your ideas would truly make the game die. I have yet to see ANY of you come up with solutions that are actually possible. You guys keep complaining about RNG, flying at max level, wanting loot tokens so you can get the gear you want asap, no gating, non stop flooding of content, BiS loot for doing little as possible, etc.

How do you expect them to build a game like that, that will keep players playing. If they listened to you then you would be geared up and completed all content within a couple of months and then complain about nothing to do. All the while to keep non stop content, which you cry about, requires A LOT of time, money and resources to keep up with that pace. It is literally impossible to do for any gaming company.

A lot of you really need to take a business/economics class some day. MMO's are all about retaining players for a long period of time. It isn't a single player game where you can beat it within a few days and then wait months for some DLC. The point of mmos is to keep people out in the world and playing the game.
11/06/2018 06:14 AMPosted by Lugral
Exactly which players should they listen to? As evidence shows in these forums alone, if you ask 20 people what they want you might get 20 different answers. There are people arguing in the Classic forums about what “no changes” means and a list of other things. Read any topic in these forums and not many agree on anything. You have way too many people misrepresenting what “they” want for what the “ community” wants. If you don’t want to play the mobile game don’t play it. Wait for a game you want to play like a sane adult.


Rather than asking what players want, they could test the waters with content they are developing and see if the players like it. No?

Example: We are thinking of adding "X", what do you all think? Have some polls or something as someone else mentioned. I think if they mentioned Diablo mobile they would know the same day not to waste their time...
You think you know what you want. But you don't.

-.-
<span class="truncated">...</span>You're right. When I pay money I'm entitled to a good product or service. When instead it is awful, I will complain. Don't take customers' money and hand them a bag of poo and expect them to rejoice.


I have yet to see ANY of you come up with solutions that are actually possible. You guys keep complaining about RNG, flying at max level, wanting loot tokens so you can get the gear you want asap, no gating, non stop flooding of content, BiS loot for doing little as possible, etc.


Have you played Wrath when it was current? Because it was just like this and almost everyone loved it.
11/06/2018 06:19 AMPosted by Ashania


What the majority want on some topics is pretty damn clear.
Such as most are in favor of High Elves, Flying, LFR/LFD staying, old PvP gearing and so on.
For some of the controversial issues, such as ilvl scaling and lvl scaling a simple toggle option would solve it PERMANENTLY, but Blizzard Devs don't seem to realize it.
For the other divisive opinions, such as Talent System, Skill Bloat, Raiding difficulty tiers and so on, a simple official poll wouid solve the matter.

Thing is, many of the issues that currently exist are so incredibly easy to solve, that I can only think of stupidity or stubbornness as being the reason they still persist.


Stubbornness and stupidity is absolutely correct. But it’s not by Blizzard.
Because most of the people that play this game, me included, have not one iota of experience around game development.

Letting your fans influence the development process to a significant degree is just asking for trouble.

Can you imagine letting GD have any oversight on the game at all? Nightmarish.
11/06/2018 06:23 AMPosted by Bojanglz
11/06/2018 06:02 AMPosted by Xeldra
...You're right. When I pay money I'm entitled to a good product or service. When instead it is awful, I will complain. Don't take customers' money and hand them a bag of poo and expect them to rejoice.

Here is a solution. Don't pay then and move on.

TBH I am glad you guys have no say in the direction of the game. Your ideas would truly make the game die. I have yet to see ANY of you come up with solutions that are actually possible. You guys keep complaining about RNG, flying at max level, wanting loot tokens so you can get the gear you want asap, no gating, non stop flooding of content, BiS loot for doing little as possible, etc.

How do you expect them to build a game like that, that will keep players playing. If they listened to you then you would be geared up and completed all content within a couple of months and then complain about nothing to do. All the while to keep non stop content, which you cry about, requires A LOT of time, money and resources to keep up with that pace. It is literally impossible to do for any gaming company.

A lot of you really need to take a business/economics class some day. MMO's are all about retaining players for a long period of time. It isn't a single player game where you can beat it within a few days and then wait months for some DLC. The point of mmos is to keep people out in the world and playing the game.


Have you seen any other game out there?

You might need to use Google, ESO applies the content updates rather frequently, has a massive customization for transmog/character creation, etc. They listen and work with players. Is this a new tactic or something Blizzard does not wanna try? I love WoW lore/story, and want to see it do well. Simply put, players and company seem to be off for a long time now. Solving that might help. Thsi is not an I hate Blizzard post, this is trying to build a way to prevent further anger is all.
11/06/2018 06:29 AMPosted by Sy
Letting your fans influence the development process to a significant degree is just asking for trouble.


Completely ignoring consistent feedback from most players is also gonna tank your game.
11/06/2018 06:01 AMPosted by Moonfalls
11/06/2018 05:25 AMPosted by Vaerth
I am asking seriously here, as in why do they not see what the players think before they do stuff like Diablo mobile and WoW content?

Pretty simple really. Because they think they know better than you do what you want. This isn't anything new, Blizz has considered themselves above reproach since at least Cata which is when dev communication really went downhill till it stopped all together after MoP.

Which is one of the main guiding principles that has taken them from 12 million subs to less than 2.


the devs honestly dont give a crap what we think. good or bad, that is where its at.
11/06/2018 06:23 AMPosted by Bojanglz
TBH I am glad you guys have no say in the direction of the game. Your ideas would truly make the game die. I have yet to see ANY of you come up with solutions that are actually possible. You guys keep complaining about RNG, flying at max level, wanting loot tokens so you can get the gear you want asap, no gating, non stop flooding of content, BiS loot for doing little as possible, etc.
I hate to break the news, but the game IS dead. It's coasting on inertia at this point. Kept on life support to feed off of the remaining loyal subs. I've seen huge amounts of reasoned, on-point suggestions and feedback...all ignored. We've got horribly broken classes, and we get back "Git Gud", for example.
Overall, there are a lot of posters (particularly about issues such as these) that are very insular. They want things in their sandbox and to heck with people who want things in other sandboxes. And building a new sandbox entirely? Out of the question.

If they only do one thing (for you), they won't continue to grow. Growth is a good thing. It gives them more resources for new things. Even things for you. Games tend to have a life cycle and they need to continue to find new places to place products and find new audiences so that they continue to support games that aren't in the forefront of their life cycle and fund replacements for those games.

There are new platforms that weren't around when Warcraft: Orcs and Humans came out. Should Blizzard have stuck to that strategy game at all costs? Or is the whole jumping out into Battle.net a good thing? They need to try new stuff. Even if that stuff isn't for you. Because the next thing after that? Just might be.
11/06/2018 06:28 AMPosted by Ashania
...

I have yet to see ANY of you come up with solutions that are actually possible. You guys keep complaining about RNG, flying at max level, wanting loot tokens so you can get the gear you want asap, no gating, non stop flooding of content, BiS loot for doing little as possible, etc.


Have you played Wrath when it was current? Because it was just like this and almost everyone loved it.


Sure, a lot of people loved it and then they listened to the feedback of the players and made instances harder. This denied access to a large group of people resulting in loss subs and a population decline they have never been able to stop.

That being said, you may have loved Wrath at the time... but would you love wrath if you've been farming valor tokens for almost 10 years straight? Would you love the PvP system if you've been farming the same battlegrounds for tokens for almost 10 years straight? Doing the same arenas, trying to get the same rank season after season?

Variation and innovation is necessary for a game this old. Some of it is good, some not so good but still necessary. Doing the same activities over and over again just increases burnout and furthers population decline.
11/06/2018 06:29 AMPosted by Sy
Because most of the people that play this game, me included, have not one iota of experience around game development.

Letting your fans influence the development process to a significant degree is just asking for trouble.

Can you imagine letting GD have any oversight on the game at all? Nightmarish.


most restaurant customers have zero experience running restaurants. But they know what tastes good and what they want. Go ahead and cook what the chef wants to cook but no one likes, see how long that lasts.
...

Have you played Wrath when it was current? Because it was just like this and almost everyone loved it.


Sure, a lot of people loved it and then they listened to the feedback of the players and made instances harder. This denied access to a large group of people resulting in loss subs and a population decline they have never been able to stop.

That being said, you may have loved Wrath at the time... but would you love wrath if you've been farming valor tokens for almost 10 years straight? Would you love the PvP system if you've been farming the same battlegrounds for tokens for almost 10 years straight? Doing the same arenas, trying to get the same rank season after season?

Variation and innovation is necessary for a game this old. Some of it is good, some not so good but still necessary. Doing the same activities over and over again just increases burnout and furthers population decline.


Which is why new stuff get ADDED, instead of REPLACING what works.

But, to answer your question, yes, I'd DEFINITELY having a LOT more fun had those systems remained.

And the repetitiveness increased with the RNG gear, instead of reduced.

Nowadays instead of farming honor in PvP I get to pray that:
-I get at least 500 pts in resource BG or a flag in a CTF one.(~60% of the games)
-I get a box with actual gear in it (~20-30% in my experience).
-Said gear is not for a slot I already have better gear (progressively worse).

Valor tokens would get my alts' ilvl to at least a reasonable point (355), could be trickled down to a single slot a week, limited to the first 7 heroics of the week...

I get really sad thinking about how much better the token system was.
Because lawyers think they know what you want.
I like Void Elves. Brings back good memories of my Dark Elf in Everquest. Sure the lore behind them is a bit... lacking. But isn't it the same with the Lightforged Dranei?

I could care less about High Elves. But not a lot. I wish Blizzard would just release them so they wouldn't take up half the topics on GD. Just give Blood Elves blue eyes and bam, move on.
11/06/2018 06:46 AMPosted by Ashania
...

Sure, a lot of people loved it and then they listened to the feedback of the players and made instances harder. This denied access to a large group of people resulting in loss subs and a population decline they have never been able to stop.

That being said, you may have loved Wrath at the time... but would you love wrath if you've been farming valor tokens for almost 10 years straight? Would you love the PvP system if you've been farming the same battlegrounds for tokens for almost 10 years straight? Doing the same arenas, trying to get the same rank season after season?

Variation and innovation is necessary for a game this old. Some of it is good, some not so good but still necessary. Doing the same activities over and over again just increases burnout and furthers population decline.


Which is why new stuff get ADDED, instead of REPLACING what works.

But, to answer your question, yes, I'd DEFINITELY having a LOT more fun had those systems remained.

And the repetitiveness increased with the RNG gear, instead of reduced.

Nowadays instead of farming honor in PvP I get to pray that:
-I get at least 500 pts in resource BG or a flag in a CTF one.(~60% of the games)
-I get a box with actual gear in it (~20-30% in my experience).
-Said gear is not for a slot I already have better gear (progressively worse).

Valor tokens would get my alts' ilvl to at least a reasonable point (355), could be trickled down to a single slot a week, limited to the first 7 heroics of the week...

I get really sad thinking about how much better the token system was.


Well I'm glad you'd have more fun... because I wouldn't (and I'm a day 1 Vanilla player). I enjoy the current system where I can wander around the world, do a warfront of two and hang out in arathi every couple weeks without ever stepping foot into a dungeon to get my alts ilvl to at least a reasonable point (355). So you see, the player base is now divided.

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